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Post by Kay on Feb 24, 2011 21:32:20 GMT -6
He won't be executed anyway. Though they had him bang to rights, they didn't want it to go to trial in case someone mentioned that they had already juiced the wrong guy for one of these murders. So they made a deal and the murderer was spared. Great system. The wrong guy, who was also 17 when arrested, had no record of rape or murder, and was mentally incompetent, gets juiced. The real killer, meanwhile, a full adult, with a record of rape and murder but without any retardation, makes a deal and gets spared. If factual (the above) that's bs, no not a great system in that case. So what's the biggest tragedy in this case, the fact that a murderer lived, or that an innocent man was executed?
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Post by Kay on Feb 24, 2011 20:03:23 GMT -6
Johnny Frank Garrett was executed for committing one of a series of rape murders that occurred in Amarillo. Later, a known rapist and murderer was convicted by DNA evidence of committing a different one of the series of murders, and then effectively confessed to them all. In fact, he left a bloody t-short at the scene of the murder they pinned on Garrett. Whoops. Well, now you can start protesting for ( the serial killer) the who did the series of rape/murders, that he live's and not be executed. Give him plenty of time to add more notches to his maddness. And, perhaps, you can find someone to write to him, at the site where you encourage prison pen pals, Whitediamonds.
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Post by Kay on Feb 24, 2011 18:50:08 GMT -6
Absolute and utter rubbish! All who oppose capital punishment do not adore murderers, how on earth did you reach that conclusion? okay. adore might be a bit strong. however, the fact is that if you oppose the only morally proper punishment for murder, you are demonstrating that you at least care somewhat about the life of a murderer, which itself is ridiculous. you are claiming that there is some value to a murderer's life when it is manifestly inherently worthless. to equate a murderer's life as being of equal value as a victim's life is abhorrent I never said I consider a murderer's life equal to the victim, I don't. You, however, act as though executing a murderer makes everything equal, how can that be, the real victim still looses.
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Post by Kay on Feb 24, 2011 9:17:48 GMT -6
1 point to me. Now are you gonna quote where I said I loved murderers, or do I score another point? sorry about your luck my boy. the fact is that you have yet to score a single point, let alone another one. are you now trying to claim that you have never said that the state doesn't have a right to execute a murderer, or that a murderer has a right to life? since both of those statements are the EXACT synonym for "i adore murderers", you have obviously said it more than a few times Absolute and utter rubbish! All who oppose capital punishment do not adore murderers, how on earth did you reach that conclusion?
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Post by Kay on Feb 7, 2011 10:47:14 GMT -6
The 'life is sacred ALL killing is wrong' argument can be easily defeated. If all killing is wrong, then we should immediately abolish the armed forces, after all, they kill people. Lets also stop police officers carrying guns, because killing is wrong. See how this doesn't work? no. life IS sacred, and the right to life is sacrosanct. that is the precise reason that death is the only morally proper punishment for murder. everyone has the inalienable right to life, and an individual who chooses to violate that right by murdering another, voluntarily chooses to forfeit his right. obviously, since all rational people know that war, or self defense, or cops killing a worthless piece of shyt, or the state executing a murderer, is NOT murder, there is no similarity. You should have added a caveat "unless that person is a gang banger right"? You're contradicting yourself from your earlier post in this thread.
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Post by Kay on Feb 7, 2011 10:45:51 GMT -6
You probably have become soft az. You won't endorse the killing of gang bangers, even though they are likely to kill again, because the nature of their crime isn't distasteful enough for you. since the only good gangbanger is a dead gangbanger, why would anyone object? hell, the cops don't all that much. they don't waste any more resources than absolutely necessary investigating the murder of a gangbanger. rightly so, they try to conserve those resources for real people One can only hope and pray that your opinion is in the minority.
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Post by Kay on Jan 14, 2011 8:49:29 GMT -6
Since only proponents of the death penalty are eligble to serve on a jury trying a capital case, how can antis be to blame?
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Post by Kay on Jan 14, 2011 7:59:21 GMT -6
Most of us who have been here any amount of time have seen JoeD arguing the opposite principles in different threads at the same time. I don't think I've ever seen so many merged into one thread before though. Interesting. Who says you don't have time to review posts, Honky? Whoever said that was obviously not telling the truth! You're exactly right JBS, Josephdphillips, is well know for his contradictory posts. I have to admit shock at his latest claim, that wowie's want to execute everyone. It's well know that Wowie is an acronym for worst of the worst. Perhaps, Honky has answered his own question regarding the lack of response to Joe's specious posts?
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Post by Kay on Jan 13, 2011 7:34:13 GMT -6
Done, Dearest Heidi
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 19:50:51 GMT -6
OK Phatkat....tell me what is untrue. I'll admit, when I think about a truly innocent person being executed...(and it WILL happen)... I've said many times before....it bothers me a lot. Could it be that if a murderer, who was NOT executed, escapes, or is pardoned,& murders again... it bothers you? I don't see how it could be any way else. Hard decisions....I choose to err on the side of the innocent public. What is untrue? This: "But ALL anti's have no trouble turning murderers loose." No. Many antis have problems with turning murderers loose. Many antis have more problems with that than they do with killing murderers. Many antis just have problems with both, that's all. Good post Katie
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 19:49:45 GMT -6
A rather lame thread. I thought the title was referring to the cliche that some of the anti's use when they say they "remember the victims of murder." That they do, as lost statistics. Really, only antis do that? How about those that celebrate executions, can't have a celebration without a murder victim right? I've seen threads at this board that fail to mention the REAL victim at all.
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 19:14:00 GMT -6
For an individual intent to murder no" it would not be a deterrent, but one cannot ever factually know if it did, for any individual whom may have been tempted too, or near the point of no return not follow thru. Was capitol punishment mean't to be one in the first place?(deterrent) or placed as a law to warn the consequences may if murder qualify on for it's use? Is English your second language, because I have problems interpreting your posts? I think what you're saying is that you agree it's not a deterrent, but a consequence of one's actions?
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 19:05:14 GMT -6
I doubt very much that capital punishment serves as a deterrent Generalizing,I have to agree, but then again, I also don't think LWOP serves as a deterrent either. However, I also believe that the prospect of spending life in prison, or the chance of being put to death by LI, can deter an individual person from committing murder, but then again, the person is rational to realize the cost outweighs the benefit of committing crime. If we believe those who commit murder are irrational, then deterrence probably won't work for them. I agree Lauren, that neither of the worst punishments that we as a society can inflict, have a deterrent effect on murder.
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 19:01:37 GMT -6
Capital punishment certainly proves it would have been a deterent if like the other thread arizonavet placed, had been used, would have been a deterent to so many other lives lost. Factual no generalizing there. If it's truly a deterrent, then why did the state with the busiest death chamber in the nation experience the largest number of law officers slain?
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Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2011 18:38:30 GMT -6
I doubt very much that capital punishment serves as a deterrent: Here's another article that clearly disputes the theory. Please note, killing a peace officer is capital murder and death penalty eligible: More law enforcement officers were killed in Texas than any other state in 2010.This fact is a reminder of the ultimate sacrifice Lt. Tommy Collins of the Wichita Falls Police Department made to save the lives of fellow police officers. During this past year 18 officers lost their lives while serving the citizens of Texas. The state of California had the second most officer deaths with 11, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. A total of 160 federal, state and local law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 12 months in the line of duty across the United States. This is a dramatic increase over 2009 when 117 officer fatalities across the nation were reported. Fifty-nine officers have been shot and killed during the past year. "A more brazen, cold-blooded criminal element is on the prowl in America and they don't think twice about killing a cop," said NLEOMF Chairman Craig W. Floyd Tuesday. Tommy Collins has become an icon of police officer courage in the line of duty. A sniper in Wichita Falls, Texas, opened fire on innocent citizens in 1989. Two Wichita Falls police officers were wounded as they responded to the dramatic call to protect the people of Wichita Falls. Lt. Collins did not have to do what he did. Not everyone in this world has the courage he possessed when he put his own life on the line to save the lives of his fellow officers and the other people who were targets on that dark day in Wichita Falls history. Lt. Collins was fatally shot as he rescued his fellow officers. He was survived by a family who has given more than its fair share of service to this community. His wife Medrith has attended each annual ceremony honoring fallen officers at the Wichita Falls Police Department since 1989. Son J.T. Collins continues to serve as an officer with the Wichita Falls Police Department and daughter Vicki Collins serves as an investigator with the Wichita County District Attorney's Office. Daughter Robin serves the community in the medical field. As we near the end of this year in which law enforcement fatalities have increased by 37 per cent over the previous year, we need to remember the sacrifices brave law enforcement officers such as Lt. Tommy Collins have made to our community. www.examiner.com/law-enforcement-in-wichita-falls/more-peace-officers-killed-texas-2010-than-any-other-state?render=print
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Post by Kay on Jan 2, 2011 17:41:03 GMT -6
I'm hoping that this New Years prediction will come true and we join every other civilized nation and abandon the DP and instead work to solve the root of crime which is our racism, classism and economic oppression of minorities and the poor. When I travel abroad it would be nice to be able to say I'm an American and be proud of that fact. Unfortunately I'm ashamed as our country still is determined to murder it's own citizens and murder abroad as well. Things have gotten better under Obama but we still have a long way to go. We must abolish the DP. I hope that in 2011 many of you can leave behind your hate and revenge mentalities and gain some compassion and empathy. Oh please, you're the biggest racist at this board, Olivebranch: prodp.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=otnews2&thread=30428&page=1This is terrible. Shows Obama still has a lot of work to do in showing white men that they are no longer in control and have to play by the rules. These men should have been shot or at the very least discharges and stripped of all pay and benifits.
I hate the Death Penalty but am amost OK with it if it's used against rapers, bigots and republicans. prodp.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=otnews2&action=display&thread=30455&page=4I absolutely agree that this law is wrong. It has nothing to due with protecting borders. Who gives White Racist RepubliKKKans the right to say where borders start and end anyway? This law is just another excuse for those in authority to treat minorities poorly. Thank God change is coming. It started with the United States electing Obama and he's continued the progress with UNC. Hopefully a fair distribution of assets and wealth come next. No one can say it's moral for one person to live in the lap of luxury while another person must sleep outside or pick fruit 80 hours per week just to be able to afford food. Until white men are forced to endure several hundred years of slavery and oppression there will be no true justice.
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Post by Kay on Dec 7, 2010 20:39:23 GMT -6
I'm sorry for your loss, and I sincerely hope that you'll find peace somehow - it's just tragic that someone has to lose their life for your mental wellbeing. Hopefully, you'll some day find the way to forgiveness:) You're post is hypocritical, I don't believe you're sincere. You have no need to be concerned about JBS's mental state, I assure you it's just fine, she's much saner than you As for forgiveness, I was taught that was something that had to be earned, woods has not turned away from his evil ways, and even if he did and sought redemption, that would be a Divine matter.
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Post by Kay on Nov 20, 2010 15:18:51 GMT -6
Don't death row inmates already garner enough undeserved attention? Surely, making executions public, would increase symapthy for the condemned.
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Post by Kay on Oct 17, 2010 16:32:05 GMT -6
I've missed you Heidi, thank you for a wonderful post
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2010 21:20:55 GMT -6
Antis already call us blood thirsty ghouls. The rest of your comment is not a response to what I said. Again, these people are a bunch of dopes and I am not going to pretend they are not because they had a family member murdered. Dumb as mud by the way, is same as calling these people a bunch of dopes. I agree, again being dopes or dumb as mud, I am not going to pretend they are not because they had a family member murdered. Also skipped over Routier being a victim? My arse !!! crazy! Does swearing help your cause You have proof that Mr. Routier is not a victim, you were at the trial?
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2010 21:19:44 GMT -6
What I said goes both ways. Certainly, what was done to Greggsmom was wrong. However, I'm not going to say that an MVS is "crazy as mud" whatever the heck that means, simply because they are an anti, just as I wouldn't say they were a blood thirsty ghoul if they are pro. Antis already call us blood thirsty ghouls. The rest of your comment is not a response to what I said. Again, these people are a bunch of dopes and I am not going to pretend they are not because they had a family member murdered. You are lumping all antis together, I did think pros were all blood thirsty ghouls before joining this website, I've learned that's not true. Your opinion is that everyone that belongs to this organization is a dope, fair enough, I disagree.
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2010 20:06:04 GMT -6
What I said goes both ways. Certainly, what was done to Greggsmom was wrong. However, I'm not going to say that an MVS is "crazy as mud" whatever the heck that means, simply because they are an anti, just as I wouldn't say they were a blood thirsty ghoul if they are pro. Who was calling greggsmom a nutjob, nutcase thats crazy as mud , even if it is one MVS who is anti toward one who is pro. "Journey of Dopes is crazy as mud.*the cause and method as well as what Mike stated. Is crazy as mud the money time energy spent for this? Name calling accusations of sanity was not called out was it? You're the one who used "crazy as mud". I have a hard time interpreting your posts, Whitediamonds, and for that I apologize. However, I believe you have a reading comprehension problem, just my opinion, of course
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2010 19:35:53 GMT -6
People, pro and anti, have values they feel best suit them. I'm not an MVS and so I would never presume to foist my morals on one who is, I've never walked in their shoes. They are attempting to foist their morals on us. Your response is exactly what I was complaining about, i.e., they and others think they are sacred cows and can't be challenged on their b.s. Do you really expect people to believe that Darin Routier is some sort of victim? He's an un-indicted coconspirator fer crissakes! A Journey of Dopes is exactly what these people are. What I said goes both ways. Certainly, what was done to Greggsmom was wrong. However, I'm not going to say that an MVS is "crazy as mud" whatever the heck that means, simply because they are an anti, just as I wouldn't say they were a blood thirsty ghoul if they are pro.
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Post by Kay on Oct 14, 2010 18:57:03 GMT -6
This energy/money/time is so misplaced from antis( anti MVS's or not) is crazy as mud... In my opinion Journey of dopes is a fitting title.... People, pro and anti, have values they feel best suit them. I'm not an MVS and so I would never presume to foist my morals on one who is, I've never walked in their shoes.
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Post by Kay on Oct 11, 2010 17:59:40 GMT -6
Are you suggesting this organization encourages "MVS" to lie about facts, evidence, or to be uncooperative with police? I've seen nothing ~ coming from them ~ to support your ludicrous claim. Oh, lynn, you're so cute when you pretend not to be able to read plain english in order to start shite! As usual, you're the one who is ludicrious. In fact, the moniker, Ludicrous Lynn fits you. Thanks for suggesting it! Why didn't you answer the question Mike? Where is the proof of your assertions?
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Post by Kay on Sept 29, 2010 18:00:59 GMT -6
Any pro would do the same, so the criticism is unjustified. Really? I would gladly entertain this discussion and any proof you may have. I'm confused by that post too, Joe. I want no part of sentencing another to death, and therefore, would not lie in order to serve on a jury in a capital murder case.
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Post by Kay on Sept 29, 2010 17:59:32 GMT -6
Good post, and I would agree, although you have to look at shades of gray, and I'm not sure that's an argument to which our hard line pro Joseph would accede. I'm a hardline pro alright, but to say antis are anti-murder victim is stupid. American culture in general is anti-murder victim. The pros are the majority of that culture, and are the ones that believe in paroling murderers, so they get most of the blame. I didn't interpret Janet's post to mean antis are anti victim, although certainly some are, those who shout obscenities at MVS at executions would fit into this class.
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Post by Kay on Sept 28, 2010 19:16:15 GMT -6
As uncomfortable as this makes me feel, I think you're right JBS. For me it's a choice of two evils, and to me this is lesser than execution. That doesn't mean I support murder or the act committed by the murderer, simply the act of execution. So by default, the murderer has my support as far as his desire to remain alive, he doesn't deserve my moral stance, but he has it nevertheless. It's a meaningless alignment , though. Say I were to be murdered in, say, Texas and the killer was executed. Would that make the jurists who voted for it anti-victim? Your reason for opposing the death penalty is completely different from that of the murderer and their coming together is a one off chance. To be "on his side" suggests a common philosophy which simply isn't there. Your goal is a societal one, his is personal. That's not to say that there aren't people (see PTO) who are on the side of murderers but you aren't one and neither am I. Good post, and I would agree, although you have to look at shades of gray, and I'm not sure that's an argument to which our hard line pro Joseph would accede.
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Post by Kay on Sept 28, 2010 18:22:23 GMT -6
All I did was ask the poster why he thought CSS was a liar. As for "on the side of the murderer no matter what" that's plain offensive. Against the DP no matter what, yes. Actually, think what you like, not my concern. Against the DP is on the side of the murderer, at the very least by default if nothing else. It is the same side of that particular coin. As uncomfortable as this makes me feel, I think you're right JBS. For me it's a choice of two evils, and to me this is lesser than execution. That doesn't mean I support murder or the act committed by the murderer, simply the act of execution. So by default, the murderer has my support as far as his desire to remain alive, he doesn't deserve my moral stance, but he has it nevertheless.
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Post by Kay on Sept 19, 2010 5:38:26 GMT -6
Yeah, well, people are saying antis are worse than murderers (or at the very least, worse lunch dates) because we don't. This particular anti has never called anyone worse than a murderer. Ever.[/quote] I rather you antis have lunch with Osama Bin Laden[/quote] The majority of "us antis" here at this particular website, joined to expand our views and strive to comprehend the proponents point of view. May I ask your reason for joining?
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