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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 10:59:11 GMT -6
You might be right, though. But it may comfort the victims family a little bit that apology ? Any comfort to them might be useful as they derserve that as they lost a loved one. But by executing a murderer, I can't understand why that can be comfortable to a victims family either. you need to read the posts of the MVS on this board, very few murderers care how the MVS feel. Comfort, excuses, apologies, will not reverse the actions of a murderer. Infact Few MVS actually find closure. I don't know who's a MVS here or not. With some posters it's obvious, but not with most posters. I know that accuses won't reverse, but it might help a little. Any help is a step forward, don't ya think ? |
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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 11:02:17 GMT -6
True, but the victim is dead. There's nothing you can do to bring her/him back-period. But for the grieving family it might be helpful is the inmate really shows remorse. I don't know, I'm just asking around as I'm not a MVS.
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Post by sweethonesty on Feb 27, 2006 11:06:07 GMT -6
you need to read the posts of the MVS on this board, very few murderers care how the MVS feel. Comfort, excuses, apologies, will not reverse the actions of a murderer. Infact Few MVS actually find closure. I don't know who's a MVS here or not. With some posters it's obvious, but not with most posters. I know that accuses won't reverse, but it might help a little. Any help is a step forward, don't ya think ? Just IMO ... for each step forward you seem to take 3 backwards lol... Excuses, apologies, justification, regrets, pitty will NOT bring back the victims. Thats the entire picture. You can view them as far as im concerned as a human, i cant. You can view them as a person that deserves a second chance, i cant. You can apologies for them till pigs fly, i cant. For me, there is never a justifiable excuse to why ppl murder, some might claim they are insane, yet they lead a productive life, went to school, married, had children, managed to get a drivers license, yet... they can murder their own, or a stranger, and plea insane? You will know an MVS when you see one post, the pain is always there. It doesnt disappear. They post from the heart. |
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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 11:19:36 GMT -6
Well, at least you've a sense humor
True and I've never denied that.
We have a different pov here, but that's good as we are both entitled to have our pov. I see them as human as they are humans and not an animal like let's say a donkey. Someone only deserves a second change when Psychologists think the inmate is not a danger anymore to society.
Well, we are all humans and have our emotions and we can loose control of that at any given time. Every person has a breaking point.
Ok, I'll try to pay more attention to that. But I hope you believe me when I say that I'm not here to take their loss lightly. I just believe killing DR inmates is not a solution to anything. Most Americans support the DP, about 65%, I'm just the one in the 35% bench or a little in the middle of it when it comes to serial killers.
The DC sniper killed 10 people or so.
What is the purpose to execute Joe Allen Muhammed ?
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Post by sweethonesty on Feb 27, 2006 11:28:22 GMT -6
Well, at least you've a sense humor True and I've never denied that. We have a different pov here, but that's good as we are both entitled to have our pov. I see them as human as they are humans and not an animal like let's say a donkey. Someone only deserves a second change when Psychologists think the inmate is not a danger anymore to society. Well, we are all humans and have our emotions and we can loose control of that at any given time. Every person has a breaking point. Ok, I'll try to pay more attention to that. But I hope you believe me when I say that I'm not here to take their loss lightly. I just believe killing DR inmates is not a solution to anything. Most Americans support the DP, about 65%, I'm just the one in the 35% bench or a little in the middle of it when it comes to serial killers. The DC sniper killed 10 people or so. What is the purpose to execute Joe Allen Muhammed ? Did your momma ever punish you while those tender years of growing up Dennis, or did she merely reward your bad behavior? Do you not feel that there is a consequence to every action? I do follow what you say about humans and breathing and the blah blah blah stuff, BUT....I have this block in my view in your stance that these ppl deserve anything better then what their victim recieved. Its a shame i have to go pull a 10 hour work day, enjoy your day. I will be looking forward to your further justifications of the next rescued murderer.  |
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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 11:39:57 GMT -6
I think that's a private question so I won't answer that one. It's not important how I was raised. Well ,I can tell you one tihng. My sister and I were raised the same way and she supports the DP for any murder and I don't.
Yes, that's why I say that murderers must be punished with jail time.
If that's what you think, then fine
It's already evening here
Don't say that I justify muders, as you know I don't.
Fact is that over 15,000 people get murdered in the US every year and only about 100 executed or so ??
Why do some murderers get the DP and most not ?
Is that fair ?
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Post by californian on Feb 27, 2006 11:46:21 GMT -6
I think that's a private question so I won't answer that one. It's not important how I was raised. Well ,I can tell you one tihng. My sister and I were raised the same way and she supports the DP for any murder and I don't. Yes, that's why I say that murderers must be punished with jail time. If that's what you think, then fine It's already evening here Don't say that I justify muders, as you know I don't. Fact is that over 15,000 people get murdered in the US every year and only about 100 executed or so ??
Why do some murderers get the DP and most not ?
Is that fair ?[/size][/b] May more are sentenced to death, it's just that the appellate process takes a long time. Also, the DP is the US is limited to 'special circumstance" murders. You can look that up on the web. |
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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 11:54:42 GMT -6
I think that's a private question so I won't answer that one. It's not important how I was raised. Well ,I can tell you one tihng. My sister and I were raised the same way and she supports the DP for any murder and I don't. Yes, that's why I say that murderers must be punished with jail time. If that's what you think, then fine It's already evening here Don't say that I justify muders, as you know I don't. Fact is that over 15,000 people get murdered in the US every year and only about 100 executed or so ??
Why do some murderers get the DP and most not ?
Is that fair ?[/size][/b] May more are sentenced to death, it's just that the appellate process takes a long time. Also, the DP is the US is limited to 'special circumstance" murders. You can look that up on the web. [/quote] Ok, I'll try if I can find some on the web about those 'special circumstances" |
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Ima just not logged in
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Post by Ima just not logged in on Feb 27, 2006 12:00:56 GMT -6
Dear dear Joseph,
I'm so sorry you have so much anger inside you. Life must have been very hard for you. I'm happy you at least have a great cause to let it out.
I really need you to read a bit more slowly. I said over and over, I got married to someone I believed was innocent. I would not have gotten married to someone I knew was guilty.
How sad you think people like the Pope and Mother Theresa have done evil. That is farther from the truth then I care to even discuss.
Yes they walk among the poor and sinners. That's what they were told to do. By Jesus himself.
I would bet my last dollar that you are not a believer in Jesus and/or God. Are you? You didn't answer last time. If not then you have no understanding of His teachings and therefore could not understand what they are doing. You would be just like those in the bible who didn't understand Jesus doing the same thing. As Jesus said "it is not the healthy who needs a dr. It is the sick".
I also find your remark that every other crime is forgivable because as you say it can be undone. Really? How does one undo a rape or torture?
You really need to calm down a bit and think more about what you are saying.
My heart goes out to all MVS. You will never hear me say differently.
As far as the killer saying he was sorry to them....well I doubt if they did they would mean it anyway. One would have to wonder if they really meant it or meant if they were just sorry they got caught. Or if it was just lie. Yes some do mean it but does that really help? I don't know, maybe.
For the person who asked why I gave up once I was a victim of the con. Well, I felt as if I had done about all I could to help this man with his path to God. It didn't work. I saw no reason to continue on. Even Jesus tells us to move on when we see our work is not doing any good.
I saw he not only was a killer but had no remorse and had no plans on changing his evil ways so why bother with him. I was very clear the whole time that no matter what if I found out he lied then I was going to be gone.
Had he been up front with me I would never had gotten married to him but I still would have hung around. I do believe that God can change the heart of anyone, even one who murders. While he still would deserve his punishment I think he could have done a lot of good even from prison.
First of all he could have said he was sorry to the MVS. While I doubt if they would feel better it would not be my place to say how they would feel. Perhaps they would find some comfort in it.
He could have told them (which they wanted to know) what really happened that night.
But, seeing that he couldn't care less about the kindness and love from anyone I found it best to move on and help others who wanted to be helped.
Prison never was a place I went before or after to help at. I am not a groupie and found it to be to upsetting to go back there. So now I help those on the outside. Which of course I did before anyway.
I did not have the thoughts or feelings that since I was the one who personally was conned so I wasn't going to help. Had I seen he conned anyone during the time I was involved I would have left also. Seeing him not wanting to make his life better showed me he was not going to change. At least not by anything I had to offer him.
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:02:06 GMT -6
I said over and over, I got married to someone I believed was innocent. I would not have gotten married to someone I knew was guilty. Yeah, right. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:04:30 GMT -6
How sad you think people like the Pope and Mother Theresa have done evil. That is farther from the truth then I care to even discuss. I never regarded them as evil. They simply blind themselves to it, the way they did in the 1930s and 1940s. The Catholic Church hasn't changed since then. They still regard contraception as sinful, and abject poverty and misery something to be desired. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:09:54 GMT -6
I would bet my last dollar that you are not a believer in Jesus and/or God. Nope. It is quite obvious to me that if God exists, he doesn't get involved in our travails, the wishful thinking of pie-eyed, heaven-obsessed xians notwithstanding. When I quote scripture, it is only to point out how meaningless it all is in human affairs. I don't deny people their faith, if faith is what they require to get through life, but I will argue the logical fallacies of the bible with anyone, any time, anywhere. |
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Post by Ima just not logged in on Feb 27, 2006 13:10:51 GMT -6
Ok Joe, you continue to think you know what is in a persons heart. I give up on you. You are just like my husband, not willing to change what is wrong about you. You have no desire to even try. That's ok.
Again you don't answer about any belief in God. Makes me wonder why.
I really think you need to get some professional help with all this pent up anger and hatred for people you have never met. It's not normal.
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:16:54 GMT -6
I also find your remark that every other crime is forgivable because as you say it can be undone. Really? How does one undo a rape or torture? Rapists and torturers may atone for their crimes, at least theoretically, because there are victims alive to forgive them. I don't deny the power of forgiveness in healing the soul, but it only works in duplex mode. Remorse isn't enough, and being forgiven by those who are not true victims doesn't cut it, either. I know women who have been raped, some even incested, but none of them have killed themselves over it. There is still some value to being alive, even if the raped are traumatized for life. The value of innocent life is lost on the murderer, who feels s/he has the right to play god. Executions are the people's way of cutting these pricks back down to size. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:17:41 GMT -6
My heart goes out to all MVS. You will never hear me say differently. Yes, the bereaved were foremost in your mind when you courted the affection of a convicted murderer. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:22:24 GMT -6
I had done about all I could to help this man with his path to God. Your enveloping embrace of an evil man wasn't for his sake, but for yours. He's not the one with the problem. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:27:35 GMT -6
Seeing him not wanting to make his life better showed me he was not going to change. At least not by anything I had to offer him. You're the one in need of expiation. Otherwise you would not be so desperate to save everyone else. |
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Post by nydesha on Feb 27, 2006 13:54:14 GMT -6
[The value of innocent life is lost on the murderer, who feels s/he has the right to play god. Executions are the people's way of cutting these pricks back down to size. But the state has the right to play God??? The state sets a good example; he plays God...a little boy thinks: alright what those people can, I can as well. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 13:54:18 GMT -6
Ok Joe, you continue to think you know what is in a persons heart. I give up on you. You are just like my husband, not willing to change what is wrong about you. You have no desire to even try. That's ok. Again you don't answer about any belief in God. Makes me wonder why. I really think you need to get some professional help with all this pent up anger and hatred for people you have never met. It's not normal. The woman who marries a capital murderer is lecturing me about psychology. I love it. ;D |
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Post by nydesha on Feb 27, 2006 13:56:58 GMT -6
Ok Joe, you continue to think you know what is in a persons heart. I give up on you. You are just like my husband, not willing to change what is wrong about you. You have no desire to even try. That's ok. Again you don't answer about any belief in God. Makes me wonder why. I really think you need to get some professional help with all this pent up anger and hatred for people you have never met. It's not normal. Have you never been in love Joe? The woman who marries a capital murderer is lecturing me about psychology. I love it. ;D |
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Post by nydesha on Feb 27, 2006 13:57:58 GMT -6
Ok Joe, you continue to think you know what is in a persons heart. I give up on you. You are just like my husband, not willing to change what is wrong about you. You have no desire to even try. That's ok. Again you don't answer about any belief in God. Makes me wonder why. I really think you need to get some professional help with all this pent up anger and hatred for people you have never met. It's not normal. Have you never been in love Joe? Love is not a crime, to kill is a crime. The woman who marries a capital murderer is lecturing me about psychology. I love it. ;D |
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Post by ima on Feb 27, 2006 13:59:06 GMT -6
I am not desperate to save anyone. I can not do that. Only God can. I can only help spread his word. God has called me to do that. It's not my idea.
Again, since you most likely don't believe you don't understand. Which is fine.
Funny how you call someone who has no contact with a person is one who cleaves to them.
Oh one other bit of info Joe, when you name call durning a debate you just show you lack real justice for what you are trying to say. Grow up.
Also, there are many many people who have been raped and/or tortured who have killed themselves or wished they were killed rather then went through what they did. Don't speak for them. Just because you don't know them doesn't mean you know what they feel and think.
Also, in a murder to say the real victim is gone is also wrong. There are still all those who love that person. They are the ones left to deal with the thoughts and feelings. Don't try to negate that.
To be honest, you have no real right to speak for anyone but yourself.
Now, let this drop. You have no desire to have a real discussion here. You just want to remain in your own twisted mind and I have no desire to go there.
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 14:01:27 GMT -6
Have you never been in love Joe? Love is not a crime, to kill is a crime. Yes, I've been in love. Never with a murderer, though. The very idea of seeing someone in that light, someone who has killed someone in cold blood, makes me ill. Why don't you ask the ladies this question. Ask them if a man's character, or complete lack thereof, means absolutely nothing. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 14:02:18 GMT -6
But the state has the right to play God??? The state sets a good example; he plays God...a little boy thinks: alright what those people can, I can as well. No, the state isn't playing god in expunging a murderer. It is honoring its part of a contract. |
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Post by ima on Feb 27, 2006 14:06:24 GMT -6
Well Joe, perhaps if I had married someone who I thought was guilty of murder I could agree with you. But I didn't. So now what?
Besides, what makes you so sure that someone you love right now will never turn out to murder someone someday. I'm sure most family and loved ones with people who have killed were just as sure the people in their life would never kill either.
You can not forsee the future can you?
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Post by ima on Feb 27, 2006 14:09:22 GMT -6
No belief in God, well Joe guess that explains a lot. I guess if I only believed in the here and now I may feel like you do too. However, I don't. I do believe in an after life.
Also, if you feel the need to quote scripture then do it right or don't do it at all. Otherwise it's not a quote is it?
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Post by nydesha on Feb 27, 2006 14:24:53 GMT -6
@joe: have you lost anybody? or why are you so full of hatred?
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Post by dennis25 on Feb 27, 2006 14:57:29 GMT -6
very true, but joe doesn't seem to understand that love is something emotional which you can't control. Like I said before : " falling in love with someone just happens " and there is nothing you can do about it. If Ima was in love with a DR inmate, fine. I'm not in the position to judge her.
Neither do I understand why Joe is so full of hate, or Joe, is it maybe because killers like Richard Ramirez alias the Night Stalker is very popular with women, more popular than you've ever been with woman ? Women were lining up to marry Ramirez while he was on DR.
Does anyone actually know when Ramirez is set
to be executed ??
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Post by ima on Feb 27, 2006 15:03:41 GMT -6
His date has not been set.
You made me laugh with your remark about Joe wishing he was like the NIGHT STALKER with women. Thanks that made my day.
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Post by josephdphillips on Feb 27, 2006 15:08:39 GMT -6
@joe: have you lost anybody? or why are you so full of hatred? I've answered this several times. You seem to think of murderers as an oppressed minority, unworthy of public opprobrium, and the slain as unworthy of mention. There are probably hundreds of readers of this board who know exactly why I hate murderers. The big question is why you don't. |
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