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Post by Jenny on Jul 21, 2005 19:29:15 GMT -6
Hi,
for a school debate, I have to tell the audience what action they can take to defend the death penalty, but I haven't come up with much other than talk to others about this topic and share knowledge about the death penalty with them. Any suggestions?
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Post by Donnie on Jul 21, 2005 20:03:08 GMT -6
Hi, for a school debate, I have to tell the audience what action they can take to defend the death penalty, but I haven't come up with much other than talk to others about this topic and share knowledge about the death penalty with them. Any suggestions? Write a play about Delores Wells (age 18) and Alica Elmore (age 17) and produce it at your school. Delores Wells was kidnapped and held captive for 12 days while she was repeatedly raped. Then the male who was raping her cut off her finger and told her she was going to die a slow death. Alica Elmore was forced to watch that and to watch Delores being murdered by having her mouth and nose glued shut. Alica Elmore was held captive for four months, in addition to the 12 days that she had to watch Delores being beaten and raped. Alica was raped 64 times before she lost count. The murderer was allowed to enjoy reliving his crimes for about 20 years before he was gently executed. Perhaps the title of the play could be Dead Woman Weeping. Write to state legislators in support of the DP. Learn about some of the more horrible murders like the Alday Family Killings, the murder of Heather Muller and her friends, the Ogden Utah Hi-Fi Shop murders, the murder of Anita Cobby and the murders of Wendy Offredo and her friend Dawn McCreery. When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions. Talking to others is a big job because you have to learn the truth to counter all of the anti-DP lies. Remember there is no honest argument against the DP. When Supreme Court judges are appointed, write to your US Senators about your support for judges who will follow the Constitution as written. If judges are appointed who do that the DP cannot be eliminated by judicial fiat. Make sure your local library has books that cover both sides of the issue. Generally they will have books that only oppose the pursuit of justice by merciful execution. Start a pro-DP club in your high school so that you can work on all these things as a group. Write to death row inmates to convince them to drop their appeals and take the punishment they deserve. Encourage the Girl Scouts to develop a program that teachs girls how to use guns so that they can kill rapists. That will help solve two problems with the same task. Encourage your school bring the NRA's Eddie Eagle program in to teach firearms safety. Do whatever you can to support local law enforcement efforts. When newspapers publish stories about executions they almost always glorify the murderer and minimize the pain and suffering of the victim. When such stories appear, write letters to the editor requesting them to be fair to the innocent victims. Sometimes stories provide "balance" by extolling the murderer for 6 paragraphs and then the mention the victim in one sentence at the end. This practice should be countered as well. When a newspaper carries an editorial or op-ed against the DP, respond with a letter. Write to your governor in support of the DP regularly, encouraging him to speed up the execution process.' Support CORE and BOND instead of the NAACP. Subscribe to magazines such as The Weekly Standard, National Review and The American Spectator instead of Rolling Stone or Spin. Encourage your school board to add classs content extolling the multiple societal benefits of the DP for all concerned. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 1, 2005 10:11:35 GMT -6
Hi, for a school debate, I have to tell the audience what action they can take to defend the death penalty, but I haven't come up with much other than talk to others about this topic and share knowledge about the death penalty with them. Any suggestions? Hi Jenny, nothing is easier than that: Completely abolish social insurance, make education much more expensive, just let the people become more and more stupid. Make them aggressive (e.g. brutal and stupid TV programmes) and make them fear crime (e.g. yellow press). Then you will get support for the dp. I live in Munich. Education here is really good, the living standards are extremely high. On of the easiest way to get to a psychatry here is to support capital punishment. So what is the problem with you Americans? Do you want to return to middle age? Instead of watching the violent crap on TV, why don't you e.g. read a book or enjoy a nice evening in a beer garden with some friends? Perhaps you will then see what you really want to do to defent the death penalty: nothing. I'm not anti because the media tell me, but because killing people is the most stupid thing you can do. So turn on you brain and start to think. Greetings from Munich and anyway good luck for the debate. The Bavarian p.s.: sorry for getting sarcastic, but seeing students becoming little hangmen makes me angry. |
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Post by GlennF on Aug 1, 2005 10:17:21 GMT -6
Hi, for a school debate, I have to tell the audience what action they can take to defend the death penalty, but I haven't come up with much other than talk to others about this topic and share knowledge about the death penalty with them. Any suggestions? Hi Jenny, nothing is easier than that: Completely abolish social insurance, make education much more expensive, just let the people become more and more stupid. Make them aggressive (e.g. brutal and stupid TV programmes) and make them fear crime (e.g. yellow press). Then you will get support for the dp. I live in Munich. Education here is really good, the living standards are extremely high. On of the easiest way to get to a psychatry here is to support capital punishment. So what is the problem with you Americans? Do you want to return to middle age? Instead of watching the violent crap on TV, why don't you e.g. read a book or enjoy a nice evening in a beer garden with some friends? Perhaps you will then see what you really want to do to defent the death penalty: nothing. I'm not anti because the media tell me, but because killing people is the most stupid thing you can do. So turn on you brain and start to think. Greetings from Munich and anyway good luck for the debate. The Bavarian p.s.: sorry for getting sarcastic, but seeing students becoming little hangmen makes me angry. Interesting statement coming from someone who's country abolished the death penalty NOT because of public opinion but inspite of it!! |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 1, 2005 10:23:20 GMT -6
Hi Jenny, nothing is easier than that: Completely abolish social insurance, make education much more expensive, just let the people become more and more stupid. Make them aggressive (e.g. brutal and stupid TV programmes) and make them fear crime (e.g. yellow press). Then you will get support for the dp. I live in Munich. Education here is really good, the living standards are extremely high. On of the easiest way to get to a psychatry here is to support capital punishment. So what is the problem with you Americans? Do you want to return to middle age? Instead of watching the violent crap on TV, why don't you e.g. read a book or enjoy a nice evening in a beer garden with some friends? Perhaps you will then see what you really want to do to defent the death penalty: nothing. I'm not anti because the media tell me, but because killing people is the most stupid thing you can do. So turn on you brain and start to think. Greetings from Munich and anyway good luck for the debate. The Bavarian p.s.: sorry for getting sarcastic, but seeing students becoming little hangmen makes me angry. A fine contribution from the master race's ambassador to the United States. This is a great debate strategy: persuade by assassinating the character and intelligence of your opponent. I apologize on behalf of those with opposable thumbs for the quote above, offered on behalf of those without them. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 1, 2005 10:28:07 GMT -6
Hi Jenny, nothing is easier than that: Completely abolish social insurance, make education much more expensive, just let the people become more and more stupid. Make them aggressive (e.g. brutal and stupid TV programmes) and make them fear crime (e.g. yellow press). Then you will get support for the dp. I live in Munich. Education here is really good, the living standards are extremely high. On of the easiest way to get to a psychatry here is to support capital punishment. So what is the problem with you Americans? Do you want to return to middle age? Instead of watching the violent crap on TV, why don't you e.g. read a book or enjoy a nice evening in a beer garden with some friends? Perhaps you will then see what you really want to do to defent the death penalty: nothing. I'm not anti because the media tell me, but because killing people is the most stupid thing you can do. So turn on you brain and start to think. Greetings from Munich and anyway good luck for the debate. The Bavarian p.s.: sorry for getting sarcastic, but seeing students becoming little hangmen makes me angry. Interesting statement coming from someone who's country abolished the death penalty NOT because of public opinion but inspite of it!! The people of Bavaria removed the dp from the constitution in 1996. |
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Post by GlennF on Aug 1, 2005 15:15:50 GMT -6
Interesting statement coming from someone who's country abolished the death penalty NOT because of public opinion but inspite of it!! The people of Bavaria removed the dp from the constitution in 1996. Actually the Bavarian Constitution was amended 8. February 1998! What did this amendment entail? It entailed a number of changes ranging from a pledge to United Europe, the equality of men and women, no disadvantages for handicapped people, animal rights, changing the legislative period from 5 to 4 years etc, in fact a total of 11 amendments with the abolition of the death penalty hidden somewhere inside. One can bet that probably 80% of the people who did vote (there was only a yes/no vote for the total amount of changes) had no idea what the changes meant. This enforces my opinion that many antis manipulate and connive where they can. This was NOT the fair way to achieve abolition and to change a constitution, but fairness was never the objective. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 8:23:30 GMT -6
The people of Bavaria removed the dp from the constitution in 1996. Actually the Bavarian Constitution was amended 8. February 1998! What did this amendment entail? It entailed a number of changes ranging from a pledge to United Europe, the equality of men and women, no disadvantages for handicapped people, animal rights, changing the legislative period from 5 to 4 years etc, in fact a total of 11 amendments with the abolition of the death penalty hidden somewhere inside. One can bet that probably 80% of the people who did vote (there was only a yes/no vote for the total amount of changes) had no idea what the changes meant. This enforces my opinion that many antis manipulate and connive where they can. This was NOT the fair way to achieve abolition and to change a constitution, but fairness was never the objective. Sorry, I hit the wrong key. Of course it was 1998. Do you really think the people who did vote had no idea about the changes. Those who are not interested in political topics usually do not vote at all. Everyone knew that the changes formally abolished the death penalty. Populists tried to make people against the bill. But afaik support for executions is becoming lower and lower. Another question: If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you? Greetings from Munich The Bavarian |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 8:34:13 GMT -6
Hi Jenny, nothing is easier than that: Completely abolish social insurance, make education much more expensive, just let the people become more and more stupid. Make them aggressive (e.g. brutal and stupid TV programmes) and make them fear crime (e.g. yellow press). Then you will get support for the dp. I live in Munich. Education here is really good, the living standards are extremely high. On of the easiest way to get to a psychatry here is to support capital punishment. So what is the problem with you Americans? Do you want to return to middle age? Instead of watching the violent crap on TV, why don't you e.g. read a book or enjoy a nice evening in a beer garden with some friends? Perhaps you will then see what you really want to do to defent the death penalty: nothing. I'm not anti because the media tell me, but because killing people is the most stupid thing you can do. So turn on you brain and start to think. Greetings from Munich and anyway good luck for the debate. The Bavarian p.s.: sorry for getting sarcastic, but seeing students becoming little hangmen makes me angry. A fine contribution from the master race's ambassador to the United States. This is a great debate strategy: persuade by assassinating the character and intelligence of your opponent. I apologize on behalf of those with opposable thumbs for the quote above, offered on behalf of those without them. Hi, "master race"  Uhhm, fortunately Hitler and his fellow idiots are no longer in charge here. But ok, not everyone is an expert in German history. ;-) Well, my post was meant as ironical critism. So for people who do not share my humor: I think people with bad jobs, low income and lack of education can be convinced to support capital punishment more easily. At least my experience tells me that. Isn't it the same in the United States? Be honest. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 9:11:18 GMT -6
I think people with bad jobs, low income and lack of education can be convinced to support capital punishment more easily. At least my experience tells me that. Isn't it the same in the United States? Be honest. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian U.S. Supreme Court justices support capital punishment, as do most of the states' governors. Even Jerry Brown upheld the law, as did Abraham Lincoln, FDR, in fact every president of the United States since Washington. Are they uneducated, jobless plebes? You members of the intelligentsia didn't make a peep during the Nuremberg trials and sat on your hands while we executed war criminals. Why the silence then, "Bavarian?" |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 9:23:52 GMT -6
If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you? In a heartbeat. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 9:53:56 GMT -6
Well, George W. Bush is not jobless. But I think he is an uneducated religious fanatic. If someone is President, does that mean he is intelligent?
My little sister would do a better job than Bush or our chancellor Schroeder.
If you had said anything against the executions the allies would probably have thought you had connections to the NSDAP.
Just another question: what and where have you studied?
Greeting from Munich
The Bavarian
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Post by GlennF on Aug 2, 2005 10:20:35 GMT -6
You members of the intelligentsia didn't make a peep during the Nuremberg trials and sat on your hands while we executed war criminals. Why the silence then, "Bavarian"? Well actually just after the war the vast majority of people in Germany did support the death penalty. The politicians, NOT the people, decided to abolish the death penalty ..... as usual!! Another question: If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you? Greetings from Munich The Bavarian If the state asked me to do it, I would regard it as my duty to society! |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 10:27:43 GMT -6
what and where have you studied? I studied at Cal Poly/San Luis Obispo. I earned a B.S. in journalism, in 1980. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 10:47:12 GMT -6
Well actually just after the war the vast majority of people in Germany did support the death penalty. The politicians, NOT the people, decided to abolish the death penalty ..... as usual!! If the state asked me to do it, I would regard it as my duty to society! Maybe over 50% of the people supported capital punishment when the "Grundgesetz" was written, which banned executions. But because of the crimes the nazi commited, it was necessary to install a protection against toture and killing by the state. I do not want to happen again, what my grandparents saw 60 years ago. Today the support for the dp is below 50%. Most people (at least in the western part of Germany) are quite satisfied with their situation and their safety, so why execute people. The ones in Germany who kill are in nearly all cases mentally retarded or had a difficult childhood. And they need help, not death. You would not kill mentally retarded people, would you? In fact, the crime rates are decreasing in Germany. And we do not have executions and do not have life without parol. For extremely dangerous criminals there is a possiblity to lock them in a psychatry after they spent their life sentence (usually 15-18 years) in prison. For example about only 10 sexually motivated murders in Germany (per year) do tell us that the situation is not bad. There will be always some psychos who murder and you cannot do anything against that. I do support punishment for criminals as well as rehabilitation. For me capital punishment makes no sense, since for the few psychos who murder it is no deterrent. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 10:51:06 GMT -6
what and where have you studied? I studied at Cal Poly/San Luis Obispo. I earned a B.S. in journalism, in 1980. Unusual... professionals supporting the dp. I must confess I did not expect that. In Germany you hardly find anyone at university who supports capital punishment. (I know a lot of students, scientists and professors and all of them do oppose executions... Greetings from Munich The Bavarian |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 11:09:20 GMT -6
You would not kill mentally retarded people, would you? Yes, I would. If he's convicted of murder, he knows right from wrong. I'd strap him down myself. |
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Post by Dea on Aug 2, 2005 12:21:58 GMT -6
I studied at Cal Poly/San Luis Obispo. I earned a B.S. in journalism, in 1980. Unusual... professionals supporting the dp. I must confess I did not expect that. In Germany you hardly find anyone at university who supports capital punishment. (I know a lot of students, scientists and professors and all of them do oppose executions... Greetings from Munich The Bavarian A person's education doesn't dictate how they feel about the death penalty. If that's the case in Germany, it says alot about your university teachings, or perhaps lack of. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 13:23:42 GMT -6
Unusual... professionals supporting the dp. I must confess I did not expect that. In Germany you hardly find anyone at university who supports capital punishment. (I know a lot of students, scientists and professors and all of them do oppose executions... Greetings from Munich The Bavarian A person's education doesn't dictate how they feel about the death penalty. If that's the case in Germany, it says alot about your university teachings, or perhaps lack of. It is the case. And our universities provide excellent education. But universities in Germany usually do not provide moral education. Ask 1000 people with high intelligence if they support the dp. You will hardly find anyone who does. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 13:58:24 GMT -6
It is the case. And our universities provide excellent education. But universities in Germany usually do not provide moral education. Ask 1000 people with high intelligence if they support the dp. You will hardly find anyone who does. OK, so what's your excuse? |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 14:18:17 GMT -6
It is the case. And our universities provide excellent education. But universities in Germany usually do not provide moral education. Ask 1000 people with high intelligence if they support the dp. You will hardly find anyone who does. OK, so what's your excuse? It is not education at universites that makes people oppose the dp. but only intelligent persons can get access to top level education in Germany. That is the point: Intelligence prevents from supporting the dp (at least in Germany). |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 14:37:45 GMT -6
It is not education at universites that makes people oppose the dp. but only intelligent persons can get access to top level education in Germany. That is the point: Intelligence prevents from supporting the dp (at least in Germany). Human nature is what it is, whatever your name is. The intelligentsia has its breaking point, too. Your murder rate of 2 per 100,000, as opposed to the U.S. figure of 5 or 6 per 100,000, may make you proud as a German, but both murder rates are extremely low. You have cultural barriers to the kind of liberties Americans take for granted. We have more crime as a result, a preference for liberty over safety. |
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Post by The Bavarian on Aug 2, 2005 15:14:39 GMT -6
It is not education at universites that makes people oppose the dp. but only intelligent persons can get access to top level education in Germany. That is the point: Intelligence prevents from supporting the dp (at least in Germany). Human nature is what it is, whatever your name is. The intelligentsia has its breaking point, too. Your murder rate of 2 per 100,000, as opposed to the U.S. figure of 5 or 6 per 100,000, may make you proud as a German, but both murder rates are extremely low. You have cultural barriers to the kind of liberties Americans take for granted. We have more crime as a result, a preference for liberty over safety. 2 per 100,000? It is 5 per 1,000,000. That makes a factor ten. Where do you see the barriers? What kind of liberties do you take for granted and Germany does not provide? |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 15:26:18 GMT -6
2 per 100,000? It is 5 per 1,000,000. That makes a factor ten. The first link shown below states the murder rate as 1.17 per 100,000 in Germany. The second link doesn't detail the murder rate in Germany, but it does for Berlin: 2.3 per 100,000 www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htmwww.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdfYou can argue as you like, but the murder rate is definitely not 5 per million. In fact, I would put the overall murder rate in Germany at higher than 1.17 per 100,000 because of your reporting methods. Many of the crimes which are considered murder here, and are reported to the United States Department of Justice as such, are considered to be manslaughter in Germany. Either way, murder rates in most countries, is a mere fraction of all reported crimes, and statistical anomalies cannot be ruled out in explaining differences between two culturally dissimilar nation-states. The difference between murder rates between our two countries is comparable to the difference a rich man sees between a nickel and a dime. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 15:50:51 GMT -6
Where do you see the barriers? What kind of liberties do you take for granted and Germany does not provide? Freedom of speech, the right to self-defense, little things like that. |
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Post by Felix2 on Aug 2, 2005 16:23:56 GMT -6
Where do you see the barriers? What kind of liberties do you take for granted and Germany does not provide? Freedom of speech, the right to self-defense, little things like that. pity you dont illustrate it in the way you attack Kay and other MVS' who dare propose a different response than the death penalty on this board. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 16:32:55 GMT -6
pity you dont illustrate it in the way you attack Kay and other MVS' who dare propose a different response than the death penalty on this board. That would come as a surprise to all the MVSes here, including those who oppose capital punishment. I have had very respectful exchanges with each of them. Why don't you actually read what other people have to say, Felix. |
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Post by Felix2 on Aug 2, 2005 17:21:01 GMT -6
pity you dont illustrate it in the way you attack Kay and other MVS' who dare propose a different response than the death penalty on this board. That would come as a surprise to all the MVSes here, including those who oppose capital punishment. I have had very respectful exchanges with each of them. Why don't you actually read what other people have to say, Felix. you forget about PM's my man, and also assume that folk always tell you to your face what they really think. |
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2005 17:35:49 GMT -6
you forget about PM's my man, and also assume that folk always tell you to your face what they really think. Anyone with a personal issue with me may display it in public. If someone was slighted, I'd like to know about it, and be given a chance to make amends. And if you think someone who compliments me is being hypocritical, why not expose them? |
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Post by aka on Aug 2, 2005 17:39:44 GMT -6
I think people with bad jobs, low income and lack of education can be convinced to support capital punishment more easily. At least my experience tells me that. Isn't it the same in the United States? Be honest. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian U.S. Supreme Court justices support capital punishment, as do most of the states' governors. Even Jerry Brown upheld the law, as did Abraham Lincoln, FDR, in fact every president of the United States since Washington. Are they uneducated, jobless plebes? You members of the intelligentsia didn't make a peep during the Nuremberg trials and sat on your hands while we executed war criminals. Why the silence then, "Bavarian?" Well, among politicans it might just be pragmatism rather than any ethical investment in the DP. If the electorate overwhelmingly supports the DP, you better swallow your own opposition to capital punishment if you want to get elected. |
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Uhhm, fortunately Hitler and his fellow idiots are no longer in charge here. But ok, not everyone is an expert in German history. ;-)
