How can we support the Death Penalty?

[Donnie]

myamber20 said:

After my POOR BELOVED DAUGHTER WAS MURDERED at gun point to where her monster boyfriend had the premeditation process in his mind to RELOAD again with a single shot gun to her untimely death at age 20 just 1 month shy of 21. I am in a shattered world knowing and wondering in horror How she felt, how much she suffered, hating the fact that she knew she was going to die, me living in a world I do not want to be in anymore. I am breathing but feel I have died with my daughter but I have no choice do I to stand up and be my Ambers voice. Amber did not have a choice and I will also go my my grave wondering what I could of or should of done to protect the most precious gift I had on this earth.

You are so right saying that only God is the ultimate decider in punishing those and they will get those punishments when they meet him. But then in the meantime God said thou shall not kill.....we have to punish them for this.

LWOP it disgusts me as I mentioned above they get more priveledges than I have now being a hardworking, honorable citizen, I have no money for school, Sometimes I have no money for 3 meals a day, No this is not Carolyn's PITY PARTY in no way at all ....they just have it all too good.
My daughter is not here because of a sensless, sick, demented mind, no one deserves to die so cruel, this POS had no empathy for my daughter, no morals, no thoughts of what this would to to amber's loved ones or his loved ones.
He will not get the death penalty because the criteria is not there but he will get LWOP and I am not happy about that as I mentioned

Carolyn

Sadly, it is even worse that you portrayed. Seldom do these murderers have to sit in a small cell. They usually are in the general population. In San Quentin the serial killers sit around and relive their glory days. One criminal forced the state to give him copies of the crime scene photos of the lady that he brutally raped and murdered. That way he could relive the crime for his enjoyment whenever and as often as he wanted. Very few, if any, of these evil men feel sorry about what they did. They are only sorry about getting caught.

[myamber20]

NO WAY I DID NOT SAY THAT!!! MISCELLANEOUS GUEST DID IF YOU LOOK BACK YOU WILL SEE THAT.

CALL ME STUPID FOR NOT KNOWING HOW TO ENTER IN THE QUOTE RIGHT ....BUT NO YOU CAN NOT QUOTE ME ON THAT ONE.

I highlight the quote and hit quote and then other parts or the whole message comes up in my response and I delete the words I do not want, I have to figure it out.

carolyn

[myamber20]

miscellanious said:

There is no need to be supporting the death penalty in an aggravated way. When you say"When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions" i belive it is in peoples interest to say such a thing, god is the ultimate decider and he will punish those who sin on this earth, before you go saying things about what christians say i suggest you take a step back and loook into why they say and support such reasons. I fully agree with the fact that not a single person should get away with such horrible crimes as murder and rape but when you think about it, being locked up for the rest of your life in small cell away from society it's worse than the death penalty, they have to relive through what they have done forever, until they die. Teaching young scout girls how to use a gun isn't in anyway an appropriate and sensible way to go about protecting people from rapists. If the dp was brought into the criminal justice system there is a risk of giving the wrong person the dp and thus it's to late to take it back
;D

donnie said:

Write a play about Delores Wells (age 18) and Alica Elmore (age 17) and produce it at your school. Delores Wells was kidnapped and held captive for 12 days while she was repeatedly raped. Then the male who was raping her cut off her finger and told her she was going to die a slow death. Alica Elmore was forced to watch that and to watch Delores being murdered by having her mouth and nose glued shut. Alica Elmore was held captive for four months, in addition to the 12 days that she had to watch Delores being beaten and raped. Alica was raped 64 times before she lost count. The murderer was allowed to enjoy reliving his crimes for about 20 years before he was gently executed. Perhaps the title of the play could be Dead Woman Weeping.

Write to state legislators in support of the DP. Learn about some of the more horrible murders like the Alday Family Killings, the murder of Heather Muller and her friends, the Ogden Utah Hi-Fi Shop murders, the murder of Anita Cobby and the murders of Wendy Offredo and her friend Dawn McCreery. When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions. Talking to others is a big job because you have to learn the truth to counter all of the anti-DP lies. Remember there is no honest argument against the DP. When Supreme Court judges are appointed, write to your US Senators about your support for judges who will follow the Constitution as written. If judges are appointed who do that the DP cannot be eliminated by judicial fiat. Make sure your local library has books that cover both sides of the issue. Generally they will have books that only oppose the pursuit of justice by merciful execution. Start a pro-DP club in your high school so that you can work on all these things as a group. Write to death row inmates to convince them to drop their appeals and take the punishment they deserve. Encourage the Girl Scouts to develop a program that teachs girls how to use guns so that they can kill rapists. That will help solve two problems with the same task. Encourage your school bring the NRA's Eddie Eagle program in to teach firearms safety. Do whatever you can to support local law enforcement efforts.

When newspapers publish stories about executions they almost always glorify the murderer and minimize the pain and suffering of the victim. When such stories appear, write letters to the editor requesting them to be fair to the innocent victims. Sometimes stories provide "balance" by extolling the murderer for 6 paragraphs and then the mention the victim in one sentence at the end. This practice should be countered as well. When a newspaper carries an editorial or op-ed against the DP, respond with a letter.

Write to your governor in support of the DP regularly, encouraging him to speed up the execution process.'

Support CORE and BOND instead of the NAACP.

Subscribe to magazines such as The Weekly Standard, National Review and The American Spectator instead of Rolling Stone or Spin.

Encourage your school board to add classs content extolling the multiple societal benefits of the DP for all concerned.

SEE CAROLYN

[myamber20]

I GUESS I KNOW NOW HOW TO QUOTE RIGHT ...LOL

CAROLYN

[josephdphillips]

myamber20 said:

I GUESS I KNOW NOW HOW TO QUOTE RIGHT ...LOL CAROLYN

You're doing fine, Carolyn. Keep up the good work.

[myamber20]

thanks joe

[Donnie]

myamber20 said:

NO WAY I DID NOT SAY THAT!!! MISCELLANEOUS GUEST DID IF YOU LOOK BACK YOU WILL SEE THAT.

I am sorry that I didn't catch that. I will go back and fix it. I was scrolling backwards quickly and saw the statement in your post. Haste makes waste. Please forgive me after I correct the error.

There, it is fixed.

[Donnie]

miscellanious said:

Teaching young scout girls how to use a gun isn't in any way an appropriate and sensible way to go about protecting people from rapists.

It is appropriate because it works. A couple of years ago there was a serial rapist active in the Pittsburgh area. He wass not captured by the police. A woman who worked as a security guard went for a walk one night carrying the pistol that she used at work. The rapist accosted her and she shot him. That saved not only her from rape, but saved an untold number of other women from rape. It may have even saved some women from being murdered.

All women should be armed with Equalizers. If evil men suspected that women might be armed it would reduce the incidence of rape and murder of women.

Even if women don't all carry guns the fact that they know how to use them could prevent some murder and rape. For example in the Witchita Massacre, if Holly G. had known how to use a gun, she could have saved four lives and prevented some severe sexual abuse. That is because just before she was raped the first time the rapist-murderer carelessly laid his gun within her reach. She considered grabbing it, but since she did not know how to use a gun she did not. Our society's failure to train her properly resulted in her being repeatedly raped and sodomized before being shot in the head and run over with a pickup truck. It also allowed her friend Heather Muller to be repeatedly raped and sodomized before being murdered. It also allowed her friends Jason Befort, Aaron Sander and Brad Heyka to be murdered.

[josephdphillips]

donnie said:

miscellanious said:

Teaching young scout girls how to use a gun isn't in any way an appropriate and sensible way to go about protecting people from rapists.

It is appropriate because it works. A couple of years ago there was a serial rapist active in the Pittsburgh area. He wass not captured by the police. A woman who worked as a security guard went for a walk one night carrying the pistol that she used at work. The rapist accosted her and she shot him. That saved not only her from rape, but saved an untold number of other women from rape. It may have even saved some women from being murdered. All women should be armed with Equalizers. If evil men suspected that women might be armed it would reduce the incidence of rape and murder of women. Even if women don't all carry guns the fact that they know how to use them could prevent some murder and rape. For example in the Witchita Massacre, if Holly G. had known how to use a gun, she could have saved four lives and prevented some severe sexual abuse. That is because just before she was raped the first time the rapist-murderer carelessly laid his gun within her reach. She considered grabbing it, but since she did not know how to use a gun she did not. Our society's failure to train her properly resulted in her being repeatedly raped and sodomized before being shot in the head and run over with a pickup truck. It also allowed her friend Heather Muller to be repeatedly raped and sodomized before being murdered. It also allowed her friends Jason Befort, Aaron Sander and Brad Heyka to be murdered.

I think you're right, Donnie. Law enforcement and the courts alone can't foil rapes.

[myamber20]

donnie said:

myamber20 said:

NO WAY I DID NOT SAY THAT!!! MISCELLANEOUS GUEST DID IF YOU LOOK BACK YOU WILL SEE THAT.

I am sorry that I didn't catch that. I will go back and fix it. I was scrolling backwards quickly and saw the statement in your post. Haste makes waste. Please forgive me after I correct the error.

There, it is fixed.

you are forgiven ....

[myamber20]

donnie said:

myamber20 said:

These scums of the earth will sit in a small cell have the pleasures of care packages sent to them, comp acess, the priveledge to get married, have a pen pal, eat, drink, BREATH, the priviledge of getting visits from loved ones.
Yes, they sure do have the time to think about what they have done forever (my heart is bleeding for them just to think about how awful it is for them
) .........Lets see........After my POOR BELOVED DAUGHTER WAS MURDERED at gun point to where her monster boyfriend had the premeditation process in his mind to RELOAD again with a single shot gun to her untimely death at age 20 just 1 month shy of 21. I am in a shattered world knowing and wondering in horror How she felt, how much she suffered, hating the fact that she knew she was going to die, me living in a world I do not want to be in anymore. I am breathing but feel I have died with my daughter but I have no choice do I to stand up and be my Ambers voice. Amber did not have a choice and I will also go my my grave wondering what I could of or should of done to protect the most precious gift I had on this earth.

You are so right saying that only God is the ultimate decider in punishing those and they will get those punishments when they meet him. But then in the meantime God said thou shall not kill.....we have to punish them for this.

LWOP it disgusts me as I mentioned above they get more priveledges than I have now being a hardworking, honorable citizen, I have no money for school, Sometimes I have no money for 3 meals a day, No this is not Carolyn's PITY PARTY in no way at all ....they just have it all too good.
My daughter is not here because of a sensless, sick, demented mind, no one deserves to die so cruel, this POS had no empathy for my daughter, no morals, no thoughts of what this would to to amber's loved ones or his loved ones.
He will not get the death penalty because the criteria is not there but he will get LWOP and I am not happy about that as I mentioned

Carolyn

Sadly, it is even worse that you protrayed. Seldom do these murderers have to sit in a small cell. They usually are in the general population. IN San Quentin the serial killers sit around a relive their glory days. One criminal forced the state to give him copies of the crime scene photos of the lady that he raped and brutally murdered. That way he could relive the crime for enjoyment whenever and as often as he wanted. Very few, if any, of these evil men feel sorry about what they did. They are only sorry about getting caught.

I totally agree Donnie-- I probally I am sure just know half of what the POS have the glory of doing and I dont know if I really want to know anymore because what I already know makes me a very bitter woman. I dont want to become a bitter woman, it is going to be hard not to but I hope not.

[Donnie]

myamber20 said:

donnie said:

I am sorry that I didn't catch that. I will go back and fix it. I was scrolling backwards quickly and saw the statement in your post. Haste makes waste. Please forgive me after I correct the error.

There, it is fixed.

you are forgiven ....

Thank you.

I forgot to mention that, as is required when seeking forgiveness, I have made a committment to strenously endeavor to prevent myself from making such an error in the future.

[californian]

"pity you dont illustrate it in the way you attack Kay and other MVS' who dare propose a different response than the death penalty on this board."

Opposition to an opinion is not supression of free speech, but countervening opinion.

Let me pont out here that only governments can censor.

I might also point out that if "the Bavarian" expressed support for the Nazi party in his native land, he could be prosecuted. The same if he denied that the holocaust occurred.

Our First Amendment prohibits such conduct by our government. I think we have the better system.

[Deleted]

Hi everyone! This is my first post here. First off, I do not support the death penalty. My reason for this is simple (and many would think of it as a very weak one, but for me, it is strong enough). I firmly believe that 100 criminals may go unpunished, but 1 innocent should not be punished. This is especially true of the dp because it leaves no chance whatsoever for correcting a wronful conviction. In LWOP, if you get to know that the person was in fact innocent (a very thin chance because no one wants to spend time and money on dead persons' cases), there is no way to correct it. And don't tell me that this has never happened. It has happened in the UK (though no known case in the US as yet).
It was several years back in the papers. The Queen granted full pardon to a man executed several years ago because new investigations revealed that he was absolutely innocent. This was the turning point of my thinking on the DP. His family was awarded around 80000 - 100000 pounds, but it's pretty much pointless, isn't it. We are all humans, and humans make mistakes. We never "know" the truth. So I think that it's much better not to execute someone, if there is even a slightest chance that he/she might be innocent.
The circumstances of this case were indeed different, as was the time. But what this shows is that it is a possibility, and even more clearly, that there is nothing we can do to correct or make amends. Neither we, nor our systems are flawless. So I don't think we should be making decisions about someone's life and death unless we can be 100% sure or if we can reverse our decision. Most of you won't agree (It is a Pro site after all). But then the discussion boards are for that.

P.S. - I wouldn't mind a Hitler or Saddam Hussein being executed. I think we can be 100% sure of their crimes.

[Charlene]

bippukt said:

I think we can be 100% sure of their crimes.

Juries are sure when they sentence someone to death.

[Deleted]

bippukt said:

Hi everyone! This is my first post here. First off, I do not support the death penalty. My reason for this is simple (and many would think of it as a very weak one, but for me, it is strong enough). I firmly believe that 100 criminals may go unpunished, but 1 innocent should not be punished. This is especially true of the dp because it leaves no chance whatsoever for correcting a wronful conviction. In LWOP, if you get to know that the person was in fact innocent (a very thin chance because no one wants to spend time and money on dead persons' cases), there is no way to correct it. And don't tell me that this has never happened. It has happened in the UK (though no known case in the US as yet).
It was several years back in the papers. The Queen granted full pardon to a man executed several years ago because new investigations revealed that he was absolutely innocent. This was the turning point of my thinking on the DP. His family was awarded around 80000 - 100000 pounds, but it's pretty much pointless, isn't it. We are all humans, and humans make mistakes. We never "know" the truth. So I think that it's much better not to execute someone, if there is even a slightest chance that he/she might be innocent.
The circumstances of this case were indeed different, as was the time. But what this shows is that it is a possibility, and even more clearly, that there is nothing we can do to correct or make amends. Neither we, nor our systems are flawless. So I don't think we should be making decisions about someone's life and death unless we can be 100% sure or if we can reverse our decision. Most of you won't agree (It is a Pro site after all). But then the discussion boards are for that.

P.S. - I wouldn't mind a Hitler or Saddam Hussein being executed. I think we can be 100% sure of their crimes.

I disagree. Society is better off after getting rid of 99 murderers and one inncocent person. It may just be the price we have to pay to have a civilized society.

I'm willing to risk it. I think the odds of being killed that way are low enough not to worry about it.

And by the way, if we're going to discuss this subject, let's make it clear that I am referring to someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the crime for which he is executed, i.e. wasn't even present. I could not care less if someone is executed for participating in a robbery, and it turns out later that his buddy was actually the trigger man instead of him.

[Felix2]

consequences said:

bippukt said:

Hi everyone! This is my first post here. First off, I do not support the death penalty. My reason for this is simple (and many would think of it as a very weak one, but for me, it is strong enough). I firmly believe that 100 criminals may go unpunished, but 1 innocent should not be punished. This is especially true of the dp because it leaves no chance whatsoever for correcting a wronful conviction. In LWOP, if you get to know that the person was in fact innocent (a very thin chance because no one wants to spend time and money on dead persons' cases), there is no way to correct it. And don't tell me that this has never happened. It has happened in the UK (though no known case in the US as yet).
It was several years back in the papers. The Queen granted full pardon to a man executed several years ago because new investigations revealed that he was absolutely innocent. This was the turning point of my thinking on the DP. His family was awarded around 80000 - 100000 pounds, but it's pretty much pointless, isn't it. We are all humans, and humans make mistakes. We never "know" the truth. So I think that it's much better not to execute someone, if there is even a slightest chance that he/she might be innocent.
The circumstances of this case were indeed different, as was the time. But what this shows is that it is a possibility, and even more clearly, that there is nothing we can do to correct or make amends. Neither we, nor our systems are flawless. So I don't think we should be making decisions about someone's life and death unless we can be 100% sure or if we can reverse our decision. Most of you won't agree (It is a Pro site after all). But then the discussion boards are for that.

P.S. - I wouldn't mind a Hitler or Saddam Hussein being executed. I think we can be 100% sure of their crimes.

I disagree. Society is better off after getting rid of 99 murderers and one inncocent person. It may just be the price we have to pay to have a civilized society.

I'm willing to risk it. I think the odds of being killed that way are low enough not to worry about it.

And by the way, if we're going to discuss this subject, let's make it clear that I am referring to someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the crime for which he is executed, i.e. wasn't even present. I could not care less if someone is executed for participating in a robbery, and it turns out later that his buddy was actually the trigger man instead of him.

The price you pay? The innocent person is the one paying. tell me, how can could you live with yourself if this innocent person was a family member? You seem to have a numbers attitude to innocent human life which is no better than a murderers.

[Deleted]

felix2 said:

consequences said:

I disagree. Society is better off after getting rid of 99 murderers and one inncocent person. It may just be the price we have to pay to have a civilized society.

I'm willing to risk it. I think the odds of being killed that way are low enough not to worry about it.

And by the way, if we're going to discuss this subject, let's make it clear that I am referring to someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the crime for which he is executed, i.e. wasn't even present. I could not care less if someone is executed for participating in a robbery, and it turns out later that his buddy was actually the trigger man instead of him.

The price you pay? The innocent person is the one paying. tell me, how can could you live with yourself if this innocent person was a family member? You seem to have a numbers attitude to innocent human life which is no better than a murderers.

That's right. And if I am the innocent person who is wrongfully executed, I'd be the one paying the price, then, wouldn't I? Did we not have our coffee this morning, or what?

[Felix2]

consequences said:

felix2 said:

The price you pay? The innocent person is the one paying. tell me, how can could you live with yourself if this innocent person was a family member? You seem to have a numbers attitude to innocent human life which is no better than a murderers.

That's right. And if I am the innocent person who is wrongfully executed, I'd be the one paying the price, then, wouldn't I? Did we not have our coffee this morning, or what?

and the chances of it being you as opposed to someone else? exactly, zilch, so your argument fails to impress.,

[Donnie]

felix2 said:

and the chances of it being you as opposed to someone else? exactly, zilch, so your argument fails to impress.,

Which is why "zilch" is the real value of the anti-DP argument.

[Felix2]

donnie said:

felix2 said:

and the chances of it being you as opposed to someone else? exactly, zilch, so your argument fails to impress.,

Which is why "zilch" is the real value of the anti-DP argument.

your logic needs an injection of?,,, -logic!

[Deleted]

admin said:

bippukt said:

I think we can be 100% sure of their crimes.

Juries are sure when they sentence someone to death.

But sometimes terribly wrong... Charlene, even the execution of a single innocent person will be a desaster. I am sure it has happened. And it will happen again from time to time. Most death row inmates are guilty. But even juries make mistakes. What do you tell the friends and families of the innocent citizens who have been executed? "He died for the victims of murder"? Or "Hey, don't worry! It wasn't painful at all."?

Life in prison is the better choice. Cheaper, less appeals and the prisoner can be released if found innocent later. And the best thing: No public attention in the media.

[californian]

Charlene, even the execution of a single innocent person will be a desaster (sic).

This is actually pretty funny coming from a Kraut.

Tell me, do you ever ask "what did you do in the war, daddy?"

[Donnie]

bavarian said:

even the execution of a single innocent person will be a desaster.

No, the execution of a single innocent person would not be a disaster. Just as it is not a disaster when a previously convicted murderer is set free on parole another person. For something to be a disaster, there have to be many people killed. Perhaps as when a previously convicted murderer is set free on parole and murders eleven innocent people.

What do you tell the friends and families of the innocent citizens who have been executed?

First you have to find one. A daunting task. But if you ever find one, you can tell them the same things that were told to the friends and families of the more than 800 murder victims who were killed by previously convicted murderers who were not executed.

Life in prison is the better choice. Cheaper, less appeals and the prisoner can be released if found innocent later. And the best thing: No public attention in the media.

Not cheaper, more appeals and there will still be plenty of public attention. It is the crimes that lead to the public attention, even before the murderer is caught.

[Deleted]

californian said:

Charlene, even the execution of a single innocent person will be a desaster (sic).

This is actually pretty funny coming from a Kraut.

Tell me, do you ever ask "what did you do in the war, daddy?"

My father was born after WWII and my grandparents broke the Nazis' laws and helped protecting innocent lives.
I strongly oppose the Nazis and all other extremist groups (rightwing, leftwing, religious...).

By the way, I am not a Kraut. I am a Bavarian.

[Donnie]

felix2 said:

consequences said:

That's right. And if I am the innocent person who is wrongfully executed, I'd be the one paying the price, then, wouldn't I? Did we not have our coffee this morning, or what?

and the chances of it being you as opposed to someone else? exactly, zilch, so your argument fails to impress.,

Actually it is somewhat greater than zilch and it is the same for everyone in a death-penalty jurisdiction. So you are saying that the argument against the DP based on the theory of accidental execution of an innocent also fails to impress.

[Felix2]

donnie said:

felix2 said:

and the chances of it being you as opposed to someone else? exactly, zilch, so your argument fails to impress.,

Actually it is somewhat greater than zilch and it is the same for everyone in a death-penalty jurisdiction. So you are saying that the argument against the DP based on the theory of accidental execution of an innocent also fails to impress.

I agree that the incidence of innocents being executed is very low most likely, my concern is that it could happen at all, and in all likelyhood I think it has. In time I am confident that anti concerns on this very point will have been shown to be justified.

[David1]

If we accept that in time of war there can be "collateral damage" to further a just cause such as the removal of Saddam Hussein, then surely it is permissible to execute convicted murderers, rapists and traitors to deter crime and provide just retribution even if there is a negligible possibility of executing an innocent person, it is time for America to carry out its executions within 5 to 10 years of convictions an prevent unnecessary delays in the Criminal Justice Process.

[Felix2]

David1 said:

If we accept that in time of war there can be "collateral damage" to further a just cause such as the removal of Saddam Hussein, then surely it is permissible to execute convicted murderers, rapists and traitors to deter crime and provide just retribution even if there is a negligible possibility of executing an innocent person, it is time for America to carry out its executions within 5 to 10 years of convictions an prevent unnecessary delays in the Criminal Justice Process.

I would have no objection to that if it was people like your good self and others that dont mind it, being the first innocents that fate befell. And BTW, you say we accept collaterral damage in times of war, well I dont and neither does most of Europe accept the bungling antics of US troops in war, you might but you hardly represent the royal "we" now do you, or is this just another example of an American assumption?

[californian]

Bavy: I hold an undergraduate degree in Business Administration and a Masters' in American History, both from Jesuit colleges. I'm well...pretty comfortable.

And generally, I ignore criticism from citizens of nations who *%#*@* we've been forced to kick, and nations whose citizens we've saved from starving out of the goodness of our hearts. Your nation fits both categories.

Interestingly enough, I live in a state that votes heavily Democratic, yet almost 70% of the voters supported the DP last time it came to the ballot.

Put a sock in it, Euroweenie.