How can we support the Death Penalty?

[josephdphillips]

aka said:

Well, among politicans it might just be pragmatism rather than any ethical investment in the DP. If the electorate overwhelmingly supports the DP, you better swallow your own opposition to capital punishment if you want to get elected.

Jerry Brown was opposed to capital punishment while running for governor (he was a Jesuit, after all). And yet he swore to uphold the law, and that's what he did. He granted no pardons, commutations or clemency during his eight years as governor of California.

In fact, he criticized Dist. Atty. Kamala Harris of San Francisco, also an opponent of capital punishment, for her controversial decision not to seek the execution of the alleged killer of young police officer Isaac Espinoza.

You are right about one thing, though. You had better enforce the popular will when it comes to capital punishment, at least in this state.

[The Bavarian]

josephdphillips said:

The said:

2 per 100,000? It is 5 per 1,000,000. That makes a factor ten.

The first link shown below states the murder rate as 1.17 per 100,000 in Germany.

The second link doesn't detail the murder rate in Germany, but it does for Berlin: 2.3 per 100,000

www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm

www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf

You can argue as you like, but the murder rate is definitely not 5 per million. In fact, I would put the overall murder rate in Germany at higher than 1.17 per 100,000 because of your reporting methods. Many of the crimes which are considered murder here, and are reported to the United States Department of Justice as such, are considered to be manslaughter in Germany.

Either way, murder rates in most countries, is a mere fraction of all reported crimes, and statistical anomalies cannot be ruled out in explaining differences between two culturally dissimilar nation-states. The difference between murder rates between our two countries is comparable to the difference a rich man sees between a nickel and a dime.

German statistics alway include attempted murder and attempted manslaughter. In 2003 we had 422 murder victims (http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/index2.html). Germany has arround 80000000 inhabitants. That makes approx. 5 ppm. If manslaughter victims are included it is arround 1 per 1000000.

Greetings from Munich
The Bavarian

[The Bavarian]

josephdphillips said:

The said:

2 per 100,000? It is 5 per 1,000,000. That makes a factor ten.

...
Either way, murder rates in most countries, is a mere fraction of all reported crimes, and statistical anomalies cannot be ruled out in explaining differences between two culturally dissimilar nation-states. The difference between murder rates between our two countries is comparable to the difference a rich man sees between a nickel and a dime.

I am shocked. You say a difference of 7500 people is equal to a difference of five cents.... (difference if the U.S. had a murder rate of 2 per 100,000 instead of 5 per 100,000. I took 2 as murder rate for Germany which is much higher than in reality. But I wanted to use your approximation, since it is your comparison. 250 million inhabitants in the U.S.) Tell that to the victims' families. Thousands of destroyed lives and all you say is: it is the difference betweed a nickel and a dime. So, what is a human life worth for you? At least I can now understand that you must be pro dp.
Sorry, I really do not want to insult you. But I never expected such a post by someone who claims to support the dp for the protection of the innocent. Perhaps you should show a little more respect to the victims' families.

By the way, I am not at all proud of beeing a German as you said. I cannot identify with that country. Although I am not a seperatist I prefer seeing myself as a Bavarian. But I am neither a nationalist at all nor do I want to say I do not like the other parts of Germany.

Greetings from Munich
The Bavarian

[josephdphillips]

The said:

I am shocked. You say a difference of 7500 people is equal to a difference of five cents.... (difference if the U.S. had a murder rate of 2 per 100,000 instead of 5 per 100,000. I took 2 as murder rate for Germany which is much higher than in reality. But I wanted to use your approximation, since it is your comparison. 250 million inhabitants in the U.S.) Tell that to the victims' families. Thousands of destroyed lives and all you say is: it is the difference betweed a nickel and a dime. So, what is a human life worth for you? At least I can now understand that you must be pro dp. Sorry, I really do not want to insult you. But I never expected such a post by someone who claims to support the dp for the protection of the innocent. Perhaps you should show a little more respect to the victims' families. By the way, I am not at all proud of beeing a German as you said. I cannot identify with that country. Although I am not a seperatist I prefer seeing myself as a Bavarian. But I am neither a nationalist at all nor do I want to say I do not like the other parts of Germany. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian

If you're a Bavarian, you're a German.

You haven't been here long, else you'd know my relationships here with the different MVSes. I am not slighting them nor am I diminishing the impact of murder in the United States. I'm just saying that murder is still very rare in both the United States and in Germany, and to compare the two rates doesn't help the interest of criminology. There are several possible explanations for the difference, none of which are amenable to practical solution given the different political cultures. Surely you can see that.

What is your name, anyway? Hitler considered himself Bavarian. I'd think you'd want to be known as something other than "The Bavarian," given the circumstances.

[Deleted]

josephdphillips said:

The said:

I am shocked. You say a difference of 7500 people is equal to a difference of five cents.... (difference if the U.S. had a murder rate of 2 per 100,000 instead of 5 per 100,000. I took 2 as murder rate for Germany which is much higher than in reality. But I wanted to use your approximation, since it is your comparison. 250 million inhabitants in the U.S.) Tell that to the victims' families. Thousands of destroyed lives and all you say is: it is the difference betweed a nickel and a dime. So, what is a human life worth for you? At least I can now understand that you must be pro dp. Sorry, I really do not want to insult you. But I never expected such a post by someone who claims to support the dp for the protection of the innocent. Perhaps you should show a little more respect to the victims' families. By the way, I am not at all proud of beeing a German as you said. I cannot identify with that country. Although I am not a seperatist I prefer seeing myself as a Bavarian. But I am neither a nationalist at all nor do I want to say I do not like the other parts of Germany. Greetings from Munich The Bavarian

If you're a Bavarian, you're a German.

You haven't been here long, else you'd know my relationships here with the different MVSes. I am not slighting them nor am I diminishing the impact of murder in the United States. I'm just saying that murder is still very rare in both the United States and in Germany, and to compare the two rates doesn't help the interest of criminology. There are several possible explanations for the difference, none of which are amenable to practical solution given the different political cultures. Surely you can see that.

What is your name, anyway? Hitler considered himself Bavarian. I'd think you'd want to be known as something other than "The Bavarian," given the circumstances.

First, my name is Valentin. May I also know your name?
Sorry, I was not fair. Your comparison was a bit inappropriate, but I understand what you mean.
I think there are practical solutions for lowering the murder rate as I is different in states with different political and economical situation. So in Munich, where I live the murder rate is below 4 in 1,000,000 and we have the highest living standards in Germany. Other cities, e.g. Berlin, where there are many homeless and unemployed have much higher rates. I would rather invest money in changing the social situation than in the death penalty. All I want is that innocent lives be protected.

Greetings from Munich
Valentin

[josephdphillips]

bavarian said:

First, my name is Valentin. May I also know your name?

Hi, Valentin. Welcome to the board. My name, ironically, actually is Joseph D. Phillips.

bavarian said:

Your comparison was a bit inappropriate, but I understand what you mean. I think there are practical solutions for lowering the murder rate as I is different in states with different political and economical situation. So in Munich, where I live the murder rate is below 4 in 1,000,000 and we have the highest living standards in Germany. Other cities, e.g. Berlin, where there are many homeless and unemployed have much higher rates. I would rather invest money in changing the social situation than in the death penalty. All I want is that innocent lives be protected.

The social "situation" here is intractable, Valentin. Americans have been throwing money at social problems for decades, which, predictably, have only made things worse. We have an entirely different ethos out here. European solutions just don't find any popular backing in the United States. Liberals like SkyLoom complain bitterly about it, but they're not emigrating to Bavaria, for some reason.

Would you like some more immigrants? We have plenty to send over.

[RickZ]

josephdphillips said:

Would you like some more immigrants? We have plenty to send over.

Absolutely. It would jump start the ChinoLatino and cuchifrito businesses over there. Help expand their exotic dining experience beyond their 'kabob cart' horizons, too.

[josephdphillips]

The said:

German statistics alway include attempted murder and attempted manslaughter. In 2003 we had 422 murder victims (http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/index2.html). Germany has arround 80000000 inhabitants. That makes approx. 5 ppm. If manslaughter victims are included it is arround 1 per 1000000.

Valentin, researching German law, it appears there is already a major difference in the way murders are recorded in the first place, which nullifies any side-by-side comparison of premeditated murder statistics between our two countries.

For one thing, if a single murderer kills 5 people in Germany, it is recorded as a single murder. And for purposes of recording general crime statistics, when an arsonist sets fire to a building, killing all its occupants, his crime is recorded only as murder. The act of arson isn't recorded at all. That's not how we report statistics to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Still, according to your link, as translated into English, the murder rate is 2003 stands at 3.24 per 100,000, much higher than 1 per 100,000. This is calculated from a given number of murders at 2,541 for a German population of 82 million. If you recall your grammar school algebra, the formula would be 82,000,000x = (2,664 * 100,000).

www.bka.de/pks/pks2003ev/pcs_2003.pdf

Your sloppy recording methods notwithstanding, I will concede the probability that your murder rate is lower. However, if you subtract drug-related murders from the total number reported by both countries, the remaining number of murders, as calculated per capita, would probably be similar.

The United States has problems Germans don't have. The government does not assume responsibility here for the individual from cradle to grave. We allow the individual to fail, and remain a failure, if that is the individual's desire. Most of our criminals here are either drug addicts or exploit the illegal trade in drugs. Illegal activity breeds violence, and those with a propensity for violence at birth have a natural affinity for illegal activity. Perhaps it is different where you live.

[josephdphillips]

rickz said:

Absolutely. It would jump start the ChinoLatino and cuchifrito businesses over there. Help expand their exotic dining experience beyond their 'kabob cart' horizons, too.

LOL! That would be funny. I can just see mexicans peddling oranges on the center divider of their autobahn.

[Dea]

LOL Rick!

Joseph, you made an interesting point that I never thought of. I don't look at statistics as often as I probably should either. But I never thought about the fact that different countries have different criteria for what is considered murder and manslaughter. It's obvious now that they would. I just didn't think about it before. With differences in criminal law, and immigration, poverty levels, drug laws, etc. how can anyone truly compare violence levels between countries?

[josephdphillips]

deawelsh said:

Joseph, you made an interesting point that I never thought of. I don't look at statistics as often as I probably should either. But I never thought about the fact that different countries have different criteria for what is considered murder and manslaughter. It's obvious now that they would. I just didn't think about it before. With differences in criminal law, and immigration, poverty levels, drug laws, etc. how can anyone truly compare violence levels between countries?

Murder is most countries is very rare. Whatever the biology behind the creation of murderers, there must still be some strong, innate internal prohibition against killing without provocation. Arguing about the cultural differences between countries that may relate to their disparate murder rates is therefore rather futile.

The EU countries fulminate about violence in the United States as compared to the violence in the EU, but the Japanese have capital punishment and its murder rate is lower than the EU's. China, which executes murderers on a regular basis, has a murder rate similar to Japan's.

It therefore doesn't follow that capital punishment actually increases a country's rate of murder. You could just as easily demonstrate an opposite effect, which is not something I choose to do. What causes someone to murder is still too complex to express in a simple arithmetric correlation, and murder rates in general are too low, and reporting methods too inconsistent, for the kind of study that can withstand serious scrutiny.

[Deleted]

josephdphillips said:

bavarian said:

First, my name is Valentin. May I also know your name?

Hi, Valentin. Welcome to the board. My name, ironically, actually is Joseph D. Phillips.

bavarian said:

Your comparison was a bit inappropriate, but I understand what you mean. I think there are practical solutions for lowering the murder rate as I is different in states with different political and economical situation. So in Munich, where I live the murder rate is below 4 in 1,000,000 and we have the highest living standards in Germany. Other cities, e.g. Berlin, where there are many homeless and unemployed have much higher rates. I would rather invest money in changing the social situation than in the death penalty. All I want is that innocent lives be protected.

The social "situation" here is intractable, Valentin. Americans have been throwing money at social problems for decades, which, predictably, have only made things worse. We have an entirely different ethos out here. European solutions just don't find any popular backing in the United States. Liberals like SkyLoom complain bitterly about it, but they're not emigrating to Bavaria, for some reason.

Would you like some more immigrants? We have plenty to send over.

I understand. Spent a year in San Jose when I was a child. Immigration is also a serious problem in Germany. In some states immigrant children cause a lot of problems at school. Bavaria has integration classes. So children have to learn German language there. It helps. And if you commit crimes you will be sent back home. But states that do not do so have problems similar to America.
Throwing to much money at social problems is wrong. However society should compensate extreme poverty. This helps lowering the crime rates. And I think if there are efficient ways to prvent crimes then we should spend the money used for the dp for that. Prevention is better than punishment, I think.

Valentin

[Deleted]

josephdphillips said:

The said:

German statistics alway include attempted murder and attempted manslaughter. In 2003 we had 422 murder victims (http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/index2.html). Germany has arround 80000000 inhabitants. That makes approx. 5 ppm. If manslaughter victims are included it is arround 1 per 1000000.

Valentin, researching German law, it appears there is already a major difference in the way murders are recorded in the first place, which nullifies any side-by-side comparison of premeditated murder statistics between our two countries.

For one thing, if a single murderer kills 5 people in Germany, it is recorded as a single murder. And for purposes of recording general crime statistics, when an arsonist sets fire to a building, killing all its occupants, his crime is recorded only as murder. The act of arson isn't recorded at all. That's not how we report statistics to the U.S. Department of Justice.

Still, according to your link, as translated into English, the murder rate is 2003 stands at 3.24 per 100,000, much higher than 1 per 100,000. This is calculated from a given number of murders at 2,541 for a German population of 82 million. If you recall your grammar school algebra, the formula would be 82,000,000x = (2,664 * 100,000).

www.bka.de/pks/pks2003ev/pcs_2003.pdf

Your sloppy recording methods notwithstanding, I will concede the probability that your murder rate is lower. However, if you subtract drug-related murders from the total number reported by both countries, the remaining number of murders, as calculated per capita, would probably be similar.

The United States has problems Germans don't have. The government does not assume responsibility here for the individual from cradle to grave. We allow the individual to fail, and remain a failure, if that is the individual's desire. Most of our criminals here are either drug addicts or exploit the illegal trade in drugs. Illegal activity breeds violence, and those with a propensity for violence at birth have a natural affinity for illegal activity. Perhaps it is different where you live.

My maths skill should be fine, since I study physics. ;-)

I think you also counted victims of attempted murder. I read 422 victims of fulfilled murder.

Can you understand German text?

Valentin

[josephdphillips]

bavarian said:

I think you also counted victims of attempted murder. I read 422 victims of fulfilled murder. Can you understand German text?

No, I can't.

The figures are still misleading. You can't say there are 422 "victims of fulfilled murder," only that there are 422 cases of fulfilled murder. Since Germany records multiple murders as a single murder, who knows how many actual murder victims there are?

Furthermore, what kind of accounting system is that, anyway? From what I read on that site of yours, criminals in Germany are not charged with multiple counts, even when separate counts are involved. For example, a murderer will accost a husband in a market and shoot him, then steal his car, and drive to the man's house, rape the man's daughter, kill her, and then kill the man's wife. Under German law, he is simply charged with one count of murder. The rape, theft of property and the other murder don't count.

That is what I interpret from reading the section on "Definitions" in the English-language PDF offered on that site.

[Dea]

josephdphillips said:

deawelsh said:

Joseph, you made an interesting point that I never thought of. I don't look at statistics as often as I probably should either. But I never thought about the fact that different countries have different criteria for what is considered murder and manslaughter. It's obvious now that they would. I just didn't think about it before. With differences in criminal law, and immigration, poverty levels, drug laws, etc. how can anyone truly compare violence levels between countries?

Murder is most countries is very rare. Whatever the biology behind the creation of murderers, there must still be some strong, innate internal prohibition against killing without provocation. Arguing about the cultural differences between countries that may relate to their disparate murder rates is therefore rather futile.

The EU countries fulminate about violence in the United States as compared to the violence in the EU, but the Japanese have capital punishment and its murder rate is lower than the EU's. China, which executes murderers on a regular basis, has a murder rate similar to Japan's.

It therefore doesn't follow that capital punishment actually increases a country's rate of murder. You could just as easily demonstrate an opposite effect, which is not something I choose to do. What causes someone to murder is still too complex to express in a simple arithmetric correlation, and murder rates in general are too low, and reporting methods too inconsistent, for the kind of study that can withstand serious scrutiny.

Ok, thank you. I always felt that statistics were misleading concerning murder rates, and I don't pay much attention to them. I can see rates being compared among cities in the same country possibly, but not across cultural borders. I just never thought about why I distrusted statistics, so thank you for the clarification. Sometimes people get so caught up in the multitude of specifics and explanations of events, etc. when it is the simple fact that the murderer made that choice to kill another human being when, as you say, 99.9% of the population doesn't make that same choice.

[josephdphillips]

bavarian said:

society should compensate extreme poverty. This helps lowering the crime rates.

No, it doesn't. Addicts trade their food stamps and general relief payments for drugs, or sell them for pennies on the dollars to illegal immigrants, who are unable to obtain these benefits. The new system of using debit-type cards for food stamps is already rife with fraud.

The issue isn't poverty. The issue is crime. The latter has to come down before we can do anything about the former.

[Deleted]

josephdphillips said:

bavarian said:

I think you also counted victims of attempted murder. I read 422 victims of fulfilled murder. Can you understand German text?

No, I can't.

The figures are still misleading. You can't say there are 422 "victims of fulfilled murder," only that there are 422 cases of fulfilled murder. Since Germany records multiple murders as a single murder, who knows how many actual murder victims there are?

Furthermore, what kind of accounting system is that, anyway? From what I read on that site of yours, criminals in Germany are not charged with multiple counts, even when separate counts are involved. For example, a murderer will accost a husband in a market and shoot him, then steal his car, and drive to the man's house, rape the man's daughter, kill her, and then kill the man's wife. Under German law, he is simply charged with one count of murder. The rape, theft of property and the other murder don't count.

That is what I interpret from reading the section on "Definitions" in the English-language PDF offered on that site.

T96 in www.bka.de/pks/pks2003/index2.html says
murder victims: 422
manslaughter victims 437

At least in the original version. Opfer=victim

[Donnie]

bavarian said:

And I think if there are efficient ways to prevent crimes then we should spend the money used for the dp for that.

Far more money has been spent on allegedly "efficient ways to prevent crimes" than has been spent on the DP in the US. But there is no evidence that such money has prevented any crimes. There is evidence that the use of the DP has prevented crimes. Even when the crime rates in the US recently began to drop again, none of the "social scientists" could figure out why. That is because they didn't want to admit that putting criminals in prison and executing murderers had a positive impact on crime rates.

Prevention is better than punishment, I think.

Of course it is. But since prevention is never even close to perfect, punishment is still required. Also, punishment is prevention as well. An executed murderer is prevented from killing again and an imprisioned bank robber finds it much more difficult to rob banks.

[sally104]

www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/e8ae5488b598839cca25682000131612/76c8926bd8a12e1fca2568a9001393f2!OpenDocument

Recorded Crimes Statistics in Australia for 2004

[anti]

You can argue as you like, but the murder rate is definitely not 5 per million. In fact, I would put the overall murder rate in Germany at higher than 1.17 per 100,000 because of your reporting methods. Many of the crimes which are considered murder here, and are reported to the United States Department of Justice as such, are considered to be manslaughter in Germany.

The "murder rate" in Germany is indeed 5 per 1,000,000.

2004: 399 murders / 82,500,000 people = 4.8 murders / 1,000,000 = 0.48 / 100,000

If we add all cases of manslaughter we get

2004: 868 murders and manslaughters / 82,500,000 people = 1.05 / 100,000

www.bka.de

[spur]

Another question: If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you?

YES!

[Benty Pro Dp]

Can I be in this too? Let me know when, where and how much I'll have to pay to snuff the mutt out...Would you in your scienero accept American Express/Visa etc or would you take my check?

spur said:

Another question: If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you?

YES!

[Donnie]

The said:

Another question: If I would give you a convicted murderer and a syringe with lethal drugs. Would you look into his eyes and kill him. Could you?

Greetings from Munich
The Bavarian

I would prefer to strangle a murderer while I looked him in the eyes. The human touch is more personal. It would also help the murderer better understand the enormity of his crimes.

[mainer]

Aug 2, 2005, 11:47am, The Bavarian wrote:You would not kill mentally retarded people, would you?


Yes, I would. If he's convicted of murder, he knows right from wrong. I'd strap him down myself.


Josephdphillips,

No, they don't know right from wrong! They haven't fully developed. Doing that would also make you a murderer and eligible for your favorite form of punishment. The killing of a murderer will NEVER justify the killing!

[josephdphillips]

mainer said:

Aug 2, 2005, 11:47am, The Bavarian wrote:You would not kill mentally retarded people, would you? Yes, I would. If he's convicted of murder, he knows right from wrong. I'd strap him down myself. Josephdphillips, No, they don't know right from wrong! They haven't fully developed. Doing that would also make you a murderer and eligible for your favorite form of punishment. The killing of a murderer will NEVER justify the killing!

Hmmm...another bleeder. This is a bit timid, but passable for a first effort.

Keep trying, kid.

[Felix2]

josephdphillips said:

mainer said:

Aug 2, 2005, 11:47am, The Bavarian wrote:You would not kill mentally retarded people, would you? Yes, I would. If he's convicted of murder, he knows right from wrong. I'd strap him down myself. Josephdphillips, No, they don't know right from wrong! They haven't fully developed. Doing that would also make you a murderer and eligible for your favorite form of punishment. The killing of a murderer will NEVER justify the killing!

Hmmm...another bleeder. This is a bit timid, but passable for a first effort.

Keep trying, kid.

Joe, the way you see yourself in a position to make a condescending remark like that to any poster suggests very strongly to me that you struggle with your own sense of personal self worth. You are a lot more transparent than you might think you are.

[Donnie]

mainer said:

No, they don't know right from wrong!

If they didn't know right from wrong, then they could not be convicted of murder.

They haven't fully developed.

A person, retarded or not, does not have to be fully developed to know right from wrong

The killing of a murderer will NEVER justify the killing!

The killing of a murderer has nothing to do with justification of killing done by the murderer. However the killing done by the murderer fully justifies the execution of the murderer.

[miscellanious]

There is no need to be supporting the death penalty in an aggravated way. When you say"When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions" i belive it is in peoples interest to say such a thing, god is the ultimate decider and he will punish those who sin on this earth, before you go saying things about what christians say i suggest you take a step back and loook into why they say and support such reasons. I fully agree with the fact that not a single person should get away with such horrible crimes as murder and rape but when you think about it, being locked up for the rest of your life in small cell away from society it's worse than the death penalty, they have to relive through what they have done forever, until they die. Teaching young scout girls how to use a gun isn't in anyway an appropriate and sensible way to go about protecting people from rapists. If the dp was brought into the criminal justice system there is a risk of giving the wrong person the dp and thus it's to late to take it back
;D

donnie said:

Jenny said:

Hi,
for a school debate, I have to tell the audience what action they can take to defend the death penalty, but I haven't come up with much other than talk to others about this topic and share knowledge about the death penalty with them. Any suggestions?

Write a play about Delores Wells (age 18) and Alica Elmore (age 17) and produce it at your school. Delores Wells was kidnapped and held captive for 12 days while she was repeatedly raped. Then the male who was raping her cut off her finger and told her she was going to die a slow death. Alica Elmore was forced to watch that and to watch Delores being murdered by having her mouth and nose glued shut. Alica Elmore was held captive for four months, in addition to the 12 days that she had to watch Delores being beaten and raped. Alica was raped 64 times before she lost count. The murderer was allowed to enjoy reliving his crimes for about 20 years before he was gently executed. Perhaps the title of the play could be Dead Woman Weeping.

Write to state legislators in support of the DP. Learn about some of the more horrible murders like the Alday Family Killings, the murder of Heather Muller and her friends, the Ogden Utah Hi-Fi Shop murders, the murder of Anita Cobby and the murders of Wendy Offredo and her friend Dawn McCreery. When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions. Talking to others is a big job because you have to learn the truth to counter all of the anti-DP lies. Remember there is no honest argument against the DP. When Supreme Court judges are appointed, write to your US Senators about your support for judges who will follow the Constitution as written. If judges are appointed who do that the DP cannot be eliminated by judicial fiat. Make sure your local library has books that cover both sides of the issue. Generally they will have books that only oppose the pursuit of justice by merciful execution. Start a pro-DP club in your high school so that you can work on all these things as a group. Write to death row inmates to convince them to drop their appeals and take the punishment they deserve. Encourage the Girl Scouts to develop a program that teachs girls how to use guns so that they can kill rapists. That will help solve two problems with the same task. Encourage your school bring the NRA's Eddie Eagle program in to teach firearms safety. Do whatever you can to support local law enforcement efforts.

When newspapers publish stories about executions they almost always glorify the murderer and minimize the pain and suffering of the victim. When such stories appear, write letters to the editor requesting them to be fair to the innocent victims. Sometimes stories provide "balance" by extolling the murderer for 6 paragraphs and then the mention the victim in one sentence at the end. This practice should be countered as well. When a newspaper carries an editorial or op-ed against the DP, respond with a letter.

Write to your governor in support of the DP regularly, encouraging him to speed up the execution process.'

Support CORE and BOND instead of the NAACP.

Subscribe to magazines such as The Weekly Standard, National Review and The American Spectator instead of Rolling Stone or Spin.

Encourage your school board to add classs content extolling the multiple societal benefits of the DP for all concerned.

[myamber20]

]There is no need to be supporting the death penalty in an aggravated way. When you say"When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions" i belive it is in peoples interest to say such a thing, god is the ultimate decider and he will punish those who sin on this earth, before you go saying things about what christians say i suggest you take a step back and loook into why they say and support such reasons. I fully agree with the fact that not a single person should get away with such horrible crimes as murder and rape but when you think about it, being locked up for the rest of your life in small cell away from society it's worse than the death penalty, they have to relive through what they have done forever, until they die. Teaching young scout girls how to use a gun isn't in anyway an appropriate and sensible way to go about protecting people from rapists. If the dp was brought into the criminal justice system there is a risk of giving the wrong person the dp and thus it's to late to take it back
;D

These scums of the earth will sit in a small cell have the pleasures of care packages sent to them, comp acess, the priveledge to get married, have a pen pal, eat, drink, BREATH, the priveledge of getting visits from loved ones.
Yes, they sure do have the time to think about what they have done forever (my heart is bleeding for them just to think about how awful it is for them
) .........Lets see........After my POOR BELOVED DAUGHTER WAS MURDERED at gun point to where her monster boyfriend had the premeditation process in his mind to RELOAD again with a single shot gun to her untimely death at age 20 just 1 month shy of 21. I am in a shattered world knowing and wondering in horror How she felt, how much she suffered, hating the fact that she knew she was going to die, me living in a world I do not want to be in anymore. I am breathing but feel I have died with my daughter but I have no choice do I to stand up and be my Ambers voice. Amber did not have a choice and I will also go my my grave wondering what I could of or should of done to protect the most precious gift I had on this earth.

You are so right saying that only God is the ultimate decider in punishing those and they will get those punishments when they meet him. But then in the meantime God said thou shall not kill.....we have to punish them for this.

LWOP it disgusts me as I mentioned above they get more priveledges than I have now being a hardworking, honorable citizen, I have no money for school, Sometimes I have no money for 3 meals a day, No this is not Carolyn'S PITY PARTY in no way at all ....they just have it all too good.
My daughter is not here because of a sensless, sick, demented mind, no one deserves to die so cruel, this POS had no empathy for my daughter, no morals, no thoughts of what this would to to amber's loved ones or his loved ones.
He will not get the death penalty because the criteria is not there but he will get LWOP and I am not happy about that as I mentioned

Carolyn

[GlennF]

miscellanious said:

There is no need to be supporting the death penalty in an aggravated way.

and why not? But it is perfectly fine for radical activists to support abolition of the death penalty?

When you say"When religious leaders criticize the DP, point out that they are opposing God and Jesus and attend demonstrations against the DP in support of the executions" i belive it is in peoples interest to say such a thing, god is the ultimate decider and he will punish those who sin on this earth, before you go saying things about what christians say i suggest you take a step back and loook into why they say and support such reasons.

I suppose we could do away with all punishments and just let God decide!? We'll surely be in sorry state in a matter of days!

I fully agree with the fact that not a single person should get away with such horrible crimes as murder and rape but when you think about it, being locked up for the rest of your life in small cell away from society it's worse than the death penalty, they have to relive through what they have done forever, until they die.

Yes, that is why 99% of murderers prefer to get a prison sentence instead of a death sentence, they all want a harsher punishment!!!
As for the murderers sitting in prison for the rest of their lives "thinking about what they have done", forget it! Their sole concern is purely for themselves, and what they can get out of life at the cost of others. So I suggest to you, take an extra large dose of reality!