Allen Lee 'Tiny' Davis

[Lotus Flower]

zambo said:

the guy was sentanced to death not torture . the ultimate punishment was dealt out by the courts and not to be added to by a couple of heavy handed guards. if what is being said has any substance then these guys should be removed from this form of duty and placed elswheres. It would take a very optimistic person to believe they would be dealt with in any other manner than a possible slap on the wrists.

Torture? Please.

So you want to talk about his victims and what torture they went through before you cry over a little nosebleed on a murderer? Let's focus on THAT.. no? (Really hope you read ALL of the below)

_____________________

On May 11, 1982, Davis--an ex-convict--entered the Jacksonville, Fla., home of the John Weiler family. Weiler, an executive with the Westinghouse Corp., was on a business trip in Pittsburgh.

In the Weiler home, Allen Lee Davis attacked Nancy Weiler, 37, who at the time was three months pregnant with the family's third child. Davis bludgeoned Mrs. Weiler--who was the corresponding secretary of the PTA at her children's school--so severely that she was barely recognizable when police found her body. Davis brutalized Mrs. Weiler with such force that the trigger guard on the gun with which he was beating her broke, as did the wooden grips and metal frame of its handle.

Davis tied up the Weiler's 10-year-old daughter, Kristy--a 5th-grade student who hoped to become a nuclear engineer someday--and shot her in the face, killing her. {think there was more blood than a simple nosebleed?}

The Weilers' other child -- 5-year-old Kathy -- tried to run from Davis. He shot her in the back, and then beat her, crushing her skull. {A FIVE YEAR OLD BEATEN TO DEATH AFTER BEING SHOT... THINK THERE WAS MORE BLOOD?}

There was quite a bit of blood in the Weiler home after Davis had killed the mother and her two children. Considerably more blood than inadvertently appeared on Davis' shirt during the execution.

www.prodeathpenalty.com/Weiler.htm

The bastard should have been bled out instead of humanely executed. He deserved FAR worse than he ever ever ever ever considered when TORTURING a pregnant mother and her two children.

Cry for THEM!

[andy28]

Although what he did was a scummy thing it troubles me that they tortured him 17 years later for it. He could be a completely different bloke by then. They need to carry out executions quicker.

[Deleted]

According to the State of Florida "Tiny" was not at all "tortured."

Kris Sperry, M.D., Chief Medical Examiner for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, testified for Respondents in the area of forensic pathology. Sperry was present as a witness during Kirschner's autopsy of Allen Lee Davis. Sperry opined that he application of ten amps of current to brain tissue causes instant depolarization and instant loss of consciousness. Sperry testified that an unconscious person cannot feel pain, and that death from irreversible brain damage occurs within seconds of the application of the current because the brain is heated well above a temperature from which it can recover

Dr. Hamilton further testified that in his opinion, the delivery of ten amps to the human body with the path of the current being from the head to the leg results in immediate death, immediate loss of consciousness, immediate massive depolarization of the nervous system, and a rapid rise in the temperature of the internal tissues in the path of the current. He opined that the path of current would be from the top of the head through the brain and brain stem, through the center of the body, and then exiting through the electrode on the leg. Dr. Hamilton opined that immediate death would also result if the current were only four amps.

J. Wilder, M.D., Professor Emeritus at the University of Florida in neurology and neuroscience, testified on behalf of Respondents in the areas of neurology and neurophysiology. Wilder testified that during electroconvulsive therapy, in which the brain is stimulated with electricity to produce a controlled convulsion, two hundred and fifty to three hundred milliamps, or 250/1000 to 300/1000 of one amp, is used. Wilder testified that electrical currents of this level cause the patient to lose consciousness, and that upon regaining consciousness, the patient does not report pain. Wilder opined that the introduction of ten amps of electrical current by the means of a head-to-leg electrode, with one thousand five hundred volts would cause the individual to lose consciousness within a matter of milliseconds. Further, Wilder opined that the administration of one thousand five hundred (1,500) volts at ten (10) amps for eight seconds, followed by seven hundred (700) volts at four and one half (4½) amps for twenty-two seconds, followed by one thousand five hundred (1,500) volts at ten (10) amps for four seconds would cause a massive depolarization of every cell in the cerebral cortex, and would in probability cause a depolarization of cells in deep brain structures, such as the brain stem and the thalamus. Wilder further opined that the damage caused by such a massive current would be of such a magnitude that the brain cells would not recover. Wilder stated that an inmate would not perceive pain, fear, or anger once such a current is turned on. Wilder further testified that the brain dies before the body does, and spontaneous movements seen after electrocution in the electric chair are agonal.
www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/drorder.html

[Deleted]

Based upon the foregoing, and by the greater weight of the evidence, the Court hereby makes the following findings of fact.

1) During the execution of Allen Lee Davis, the electric chair functioned as it was intended to function. Although the breakers and other components of the electrical circuitry are old, the electric circuitry is adequate to assure the proper functioning of the electric chair.

2) The cycles of voltage and amperage applied in the execution of Allen Lee Davis did not deviate from the execution protocol which was previously approved by the Florida Supreme Court. The execution protocol merely states: "The automatic cycle begins with the programmed 2,300 volts, 9.5 amps, for 8 seconds . . . ." (emphasis added). The protocol does not state the voltage and amperage levels set forth therein are the precise voltage and amperage levels that must be administered to the inmate who is being executed.

The execution protocol does not take into account the varying levels of resistance created by each and every inmate. The resistance created by each executed inmate's body, or ohms, can be determined by dividing the number of volts administered by the number of amps administered. Since the level of resistance varies from inmate to inmate, these figures must necessarily vary. The variations in these figures do not violate the execution protocol.

3) The death of Allen Lee Davis did not result from asphyxiation caused by the mouth strap.

4) Allen Lee Davis did not suffer any conscious pain while being electrocuted in Florida's electric chair. Rather, he suffered instantaneous and painless death once the current was applied to him.

5) The nose bleed incurred by Allen Lee Davis began before the electrical current was applied to him, and was not caused whatsoever by the application of electrical current to Davis. This Court is unable to make a finding regarding the exact cause or situs of initial onset of the nose bleed because that information was not determined during either of the autopsies performed on Davis' body.

6) The post-execution photographs of Allen Lee Davis indicate that the straps used to restrain Davis' body, specifically, the mouth strap and chin strap, may have caused Davis to suffer some discomfort. However, the straps did not cause him to suffer unnecessary and wanton pain, and the mouth strap was not a part of the electrical operation of the electric chair.

7) The use of a mouth strap to secure an inmate's head to the electric chair may be desirable, however a smaller and/or redesigned mouth strap could accomplish the same purpose without raising the same issue involved here.

8) Execution inherently involves fear, and it may involve some degree of pain. That pain may include pain associated with affixing straps around the head and body to secure the head and body the electric chair. However, any pain associated therewith is necessary to ensure that the integrity of the execution process is maintained.

CONCLUSION

Execution by electrocution in Florida's electric chair as it exists in its present condition as applied does not constitute cruel or unusual punishment, and therefore, is not unconstitutional.

www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/drorder.html

[andy28]

You are behind the times. They use LI now. The chair has been abandoned by all states apart from Nebraska and they will never use it it's just there for show.

[lisauk]

I tend to side with Zambo. The guy had MORE than paid for his crime in the end. The many years he spent on death row with nothing more to do than contemplate his forthcoming death was mental torture enough. His style of execution was somebodys incompetance and although he paid the ultimate price for his crime, lets not forget that the constant MOCKING of his death is now at the expense of his family, who are as much victims as the murder victims family.

[Moonbeam]

You are an idiot How could he possibly "more than" pay for his crime - his crime was so heinous and disgusting HE TOOK THE LIVES OF A WOMAN AND TWO CHILDREN!!! What part of that do you not understand? Give me strength, I doubt you will ever "get it"

[lisauk]

I am no idiot that is a SURE thing! I agree that his crime was Heinous and disgusting and I NEVER said that is wasn't! He paid the price Like EVERYOTHER MURDERING MONSTER but he then paid SOME MORE! My main objective was to point out that constantly mocking his execution is NOT fair to his family, NOT HIM! As for "I doubt you will ever get it". The only thing I DON'T GET is your hostile attitude which seems to think that ONLY your point of view is valid!

[Moonbeam]

I didn't state that only my point of view is valid, but when you make idiotic statements like "he paid the price", I am compelled to point out that he could never ever pay the price. There is no price he could ever pay for one life to be taken never mind three.

As far as his family is concerned, they had a long time to get used to the idea of the monsters forthcoming death and they had the knowledge of what he did to deserve it. Not their fault no, but in no way is their pain remotely comparable to the victims/family.

[Lotus Flower]

The victims' family lost a daughter, two granddaughters and another on the way, in a brutal and evil fashion. They will never recover, they were simply living their lives well Davis ripped them apart.

Davis' family doesn't deserve to be slammed or condemned for the acts of Davis. But they got years of Davis still alive, able to give his last words, say his goodbyes if he wanted and then die humanely (a nosebleed is NOT torture). His family could get closure, his victims never got those chances and for that reason the killer's family are not victims. They are family members of a killer and yes they did lose a member of their family, but it was by his choice as if he had commited suicide. Those who commit suicide do not make victims of their family, neither does a killer.


I should add that it doesn't mean they don't grieve for the loss of what could have been with Davis or the pain he inflicted on them. But it is a different pain of regrets, not of losing someone to murder.

[lisauk]

Lotus flower you are right and I agree with you completely. I meerly find it too extreme to be still mocking his execution, its done and for me why waste any more time putting his name in lights?

Moonbeam as for me being an IDIOT that makes IDIOTIC statements, I find these dudgeous remarks quite inappropriate for meerly reiterating on previous posts with simularities to my OWN frame of reference regarding this topic. I joined this forum for the debatable, challenging aspects and informative knowledge of believers in the death penalty, of whose opinion I might not agree with but at least be respectful of, not for childish playground name calling!!

[Deleted]

Incorrect, several states still use the electric chair. Brandon Hedrick was executed in VA. earlier this year. Nebraska is the only state whose sole means of execution is the electric chair.

andy28 said:

You are behind the times. They use LI now. The chair has been abandoned by all states apart from Nebraska and they will never use it it's just there for show.

[angelicalewis]

My opinion for what its worth:

The grief of the family of the victims and the family of the murderer are two totally non-comparable things. The victims did not CHOOSE to be murdered. They did not CHOOSE to die a brutal, torturous death. This man killed two children and a pregnant woman. For, God's sake.... he shot a five year old, and then beat her to death!! He's a MONSTER.

At least his family has the comfort of knowing he had a relatively painless death-- this is NOT SO for the family of the victims. And, as was mentioned earlier.... Davis's family had a chance to say goodbye, they had a chance to make their peace and hear his last words. The victims were ripped from their families way before their time.... those poor children could have BEEN SOMETHING. They could have made a contribution to this world. Their deaths were slow and agonizing. If you ask me, Davis had it easy.

If the only pain he experienced in his death was a little nosebleed, then THAT is a tragedy. He deserved much, much, much worse.

[Moonbeam]

lisauk said:

I tend to side with Zambo. The guy had MORE than paid for his crime in the end. The many years he spent on death row with nothing more to do than contemplate his forthcoming death was mental torture enough. His style of execution was somebodys incompetance and although he paid the ultimate price for his crime, lets not forget that the constant MOCKING of his death is now at the expense of his family, who are as much victims as the murder victims family.

Dudgeous remarks?

I replied to your statement above which made the ludicrous claim that he had "more than paid for his crime", don't now backpedal and claim you were only stating that people should not mock as it's cruel to his family

Furthermore if you truly want to debate I think it would be much more sensible to begin by not making remarks such as any murderer having "more than paid for his crime".

[phatkat]

lemondrop said:

Those who commit suicide do not make victims of their family, neither does a killer.

I would have to disagree with you. Anyone who loses a family member, for any reason, is a victim, even if their family member caused it. One of my high school friends lost her brother to suicide and I know she would be insulted by that statement. If they're not victims, what are the survivors then? They hurt, they grieve, they feel guilt and anger. I can see why you would perhaps say that about the killer's family (though I don't agree with you) because they know when the date is coming. I can't see why you would say that about survivors of suicide because a lot of the time the family doesn't even see the signs and doesn't see it coming.

[andy28]

doc said:

Incorrect, several states still use the electric chair. Brandon Hedrick was executed in VA. earlier this year. Nebraska is the only state whose sole means of execution is the electric chair.

andy28 said:

You are behind the times. They use LI now. The chair has been abandoned by all states apart from Nebraska and they will never use it it's just there for show.

Doc what i meant is it's as good as been abandoned cos you have to choose it now. Only a complete div like hedricke chooses it.

[meme]

"More than paid for it". That has got to be the single most azzwipe defense of a predatory vile POStinkinShyt Murderer I have ever read. This bloated sack of human excrement had a widdle nosebleed. Well, let's put his hogbodied fat azz under glass and hold him in state while the thousands of anti mourners file by his displayed corpse weeping.

[Lotus Flower]

phatkat said:

lemondrop said:

Those who commit suicide do not make victims of their family, neither does a killer.

I would have to disagree with you. Anyone who loses a family member, for any reason, is a victim, even if their family member caused it. One of my high school friends lost her brother to suicide and I know she would be insulted by that statement. If they're not victims, what are the survivors then? They hurt, they grieve, they feel guilt and anger. I can see why you would perhaps say that about the killer's family (though I don't agree with you) because they know when the date is coming. I can't see why you would say that about survivors of suicide because a lot of the time the family doesn't even see the signs and doesn't see it coming.

I've lost 3 family members to suicide, we were not made victims because of it, we grieved as any family would and it was a massive shock. But I wouldn't dare compare myself to a murder victim's family. That's just my opinion.

[andy28]

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row and be electrocuted at the end of it though. He's paid what he owed now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

[Felix2]

andy28 said:

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row and be electrocuted at the end of it though. He's paid what he owed now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

yeah, and anyway I am sure that Tiny had his good points as well as his faults and failings.?

[Deleted]

andy28 said:

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row .

It's their choice whether or not they want to continue the appeals process.

He's paid what he owed

You almost sound like a pro.

now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

I don't hear him complaining, so why are you? And a person who shoots a fleeing 5 year old girl in the back and crushes her skull with a gun is not a man.

[andy28]

Im not complaining i just think it's pointless. He's no longer in our world.

[Lotus Flower]

andy28 said:

Im not complaining i just think it's pointless. He's no longer in our world.

But then why did you start the post?

[Charlene]

andy28 said:

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row and be electrocuted at the end of it though. He's paid what he owed now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

Wait a minute....aren't you the person who started this whole thread? With a comment that could be considered as "going at the man"....?

andy28 said:

The chair was abandoned by four of the 5 states that still used it all because this guy had a nosebleed while being electrocuted. It's rediculous, he murdered a pregnant woman and her two children and everyone was upset because the fat git had a nosebleed!

[Lotus Flower]

admin said:

andy28 said:

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row and be electrocuted at the end of it though. He's paid what he owed now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

Wait a minute....aren't you the person who started this whole thread? With a comment that could be considered as "going at the man"....?

Flumberflucked me too, Char.

[GlennF]

admin said:

andy28 said:

I would rather be murdered than suffer years on the row and be electrocuted at the end of it though. He's paid what he owed now so it's silly to keep going at the man.

Wait a minute....aren't you the person who started this whole thread? With a comment that could be considered as "going at the man"....?

Obviously this idiot was an anti all along, the above statement proves it!

[Tony]

I'm sure he's still having his nosebleed in HELL! lol

[andy28]

My point was really to state that it was silly to retire the chair over such a trivial incident. I'm not interested in him personally or his crime just annoyed that they retired the chair because of him.

[Lotus Flower]

andy28 said:

My point was really to state that it was silly to retire the chair over such a trivial incident. I'm not interested in him personally or his crime just annoyed that they retired the chair because of him.

Sorry but you totally confused me then. You bring him up, then state we should just let him be then state you brought him up only to say that the chair should not have been removed because of him (it wasn't) but you're an anti so wouldn't you want the chair anyway?

[andy28]

It was retired because of him. The chair was brand new - he was it's first victim. He bled from the nose and a major investigation was launched into the chair and weather it was barbaric. After the Davis execution the states started dropping it one by one.
I'm not an anti at all i am just anti LI. If the chair was brought back i could see the point of the whole thing.