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Post by lawrence on Jan 6, 2009 9:25:57 GMT -6
Somtimes the brutal truth doesnt want to be heard by those who are not capable of grasping reality. Good response though
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 9:49:21 GMT -6
Ok Andy is / was a person with a problem with alcohol. He also has an addiction. Now I do not know in Andys case but the majority of addicts have tried many times to quit. They have ben through 12 step programs etc etc. And for most of them they are still addicted. It is that difficult.
They are not sportsmen who have a goal in four years time but are working in small steps to increase their performance. An addict is give one goal to quit. And most of them have failed so many times that they give up. That is human nature. Obviously what happens there is a form of self preservation that kicks in i.e. my addiction is not that bad it is ok. i can survive.
What i know is that Andys statements here were quite typical of a person who has tried failed and finally given up. I am not excusing him for the things he has said..in fact I agree he has at times been way over what can be tolerated. However when his addiction was being discussed then he was talking as an addict will.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 9:54:23 GMT -6
So what do you do? Beause I would like to know. Because what you write is complete populistic shite. Sorry but thats the way i read it. Honest! I dont expect you to understand it Tim, nor the rationale for the decisions teams like ours come to, if you did you'd kind of be an exception to the general rule in the general population that does not haqve to conduct such specialist assessments in the first place. You make the statement that what i write is populistic shyte, but you do not evidence that in any way that I could clinically see reasons for the conclusion you come to other than "its the way you read it". What exactly is that supoposed to mean? there is a reason soem are considered qualified to decide what is mental illness and what is not, and its not neccessarily a bad thing to begin with the assumption nobody is ill until it is well proven, I suppose you'd throw the label ay anything and anyone you did'nt understand? I could not care less if you work within mental illness or not...however by what you at times write I doubt that you have a high up posistion as you wish us to believe. However what does get me annoyed is when people ridicule another person in this case Andy for his drug addiction which you nkow f.all about. You have as far as I understand no education in drug abuse because your ridiculing of him proved that. So prove me wrong.
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Post by wrench on Jan 6, 2009 9:58:57 GMT -6
I dont expect you to understand it Tim, nor the rationale for the decisions teams like ours come to, if you did you'd kind of be an exception to the general rule in the general population that does not haqve to conduct such specialist assessments in the first place. You make the statement that what i write is populistic shyte, but you do not evidence that in any way that I could clinically see reasons for the conclusion you come to other than "its the way you read it". What exactly is that supoposed to mean? there is a reason soem are considered qualified to decide what is mental illness and what is not, and its not neccessarily a bad thing to begin with the assumption nobody is ill until it is well proven, I suppose you'd throw the label ay anything and anyone you did'nt understand? I could not care less if you work within mental illness or not...however by what you at times write I doubt that you have a high up posistion as you wish us to believe. However what does get me annoyed is when people ridicule another person in this case Andy for his drug addiction which you nkow f.all about. You have as far as I understand no education in drug abuse because your ridiculing of him proved that. So prove me wrong. so tim, you seem intent on exposing everyone else's credentials. what exactly are your credentials?
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Post by ltdc on Jan 6, 2009 10:20:21 GMT -6
I dont expect you to understand it Tim, nor the rationale for the decisions teams like ours come to, if you did you'd kind of be an exception to the general rule in the general population that does not haqve to conduct such specialist assessments in the first place. You make the statement that what i write is populistic shyte, but you do not evidence that in any way that I could clinically see reasons for the conclusion you come to other than "its the way you read it". What exactly is that supoposed to mean? there is a reason soem are considered qualified to decide what is mental illness and what is not, and its not neccessarily a bad thing to begin with the assumption nobody is ill until it is well proven, I suppose you'd throw the label ay anything and anyone you did'nt understand? However what does get me annoyed is when people ridicule another person in this case Andy for his drug addiction which you nkow f.all about. Tim, you are blind as a bat to what Andy is about. Andy has a substance abuse problem, self induced of course, but still a problem. Andy has no desire to "fix" this problem. If Andy came here and admitted his problem, admitted he was having problems but trying, he would get nothing but support from this board. but he doesn't do that. he comes here and tells us heroin use is normal in the UK so it's not his fault he's a junkie, doesn't like methadone, is a welfare fraud and cheat and proud of it. is a lousy spouse/companion and is proud of it. is lazy and won't even try to find work and better himself and is proud of it, would turn a blind eye to murder if a friend or family member committed it and is proud to say so. Andy is not berated on this board because he is an addict but because he's basically just a lazy pr!ck and proud of it.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 10:47:48 GMT -6
However what does get me annoyed is when people ridicule another person in this case Andy for his drug addiction which you nkow f.all about. Tim, you are blind as a bat to what Andy is about. Andy has a substance abuse problem, self induced of course, but still a problem. Andy has no desire to "fix" this problem. If Andy came here and admitted his problem, admitted he was having problems but trying, he would get nothing but support from this board. but he doesn't do that. he comes here and tells us heroin use is normal in the UK so it's not his fault he's a junkie, doesn't like methadone, is a welfare fraud and cheat and proud of it. is a lousy spouse/companion and is proud of it. is lazy and won't even try to find work and better himself and is proud of it, would turn a blind eye to murder if a friend or family member committed it and is proud to say so. Andy is not berated on this board because he is an addict but because he's basically just a lazy pr!ck and proud of it. And what he is saying is typical of a person with a heavy addiction. Regarding some of the " wont get a job blind eye to murder etc etc" he's winding you up. Some people cannot take methadone and anyway together with drink it can sometimes be a devastating combination. But why should we take the moral high ground here? Andy is a person with a problem which he admitted to. At times he is extremely obnoxious and " nasty spiteful and hateful" there is no excuse for that. However before we condemn him how many of us saints do not have a problem locked away. I for one have!!
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 10:51:41 GMT -6
I could not care less if you work within mental illness or not...however by what you at times write I doubt that you have a high up position as you wish us to believe. However what does get me annoyed is when people ridicule another person in this case Andy for his drug addiction which you know f.all about. You have as far as I understand no education in drug abuse because your ridiculing of him proved that. So prove me wrong. so Tim, you seem intent on exposing everyone else's credentials. what exactly are your credentials? Middle aged lots of children. Law student spent years in court. Children left home some of them anyway. Decided that it was time to change. 3 years studying in my spare time and work now as psychiatric nurse ( probably wrong English term ) not in a hospital but within social welfare.
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Post by Felix2 on Jan 6, 2009 10:59:59 GMT -6
so Tim, you seem intent on exposing everyone else's credentials. what exactly are your credentials? Middle aged lots of children. Law student spent years in court. Children left home some of them anyway. Decided that it was time to change. 3 years studying in my spare time and work now as psychiatric nurse ( probably wrong English term ) not in a hospital but within social welfare. You are a qualified psychiatric nurse? Tell me Tim, what do you in your opinion think constitutes a severe and enduring Mental illness?
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Post by mel77 on Jan 6, 2009 11:02:19 GMT -6
Tim, you are blind as a bat to what Andy is about. Andy has a substance abuse problem, self induced of course, but still a problem. Andy has no desire to "fix" this problem. If Andy came here and admitted his problem, admitted he was having problems but trying, he would get nothing but support from this board. but he doesn't do that. he comes here and tells us heroin use is normal in the UK so it's not his fault he's a junkie, doesn't like methadone, is a welfare fraud and cheat and proud of it. is a lousy spouse/companion and is proud of it. is lazy and won't even try to find work and better himself and is proud of it, would turn a blind eye to murder if a friend or family member committed it and is proud to say so. Andy is not berated on this board because he is an addict but because he's basically just a lazy pr!ck and proud of it. And what he is saying is typical of a person with a heavy addiction. Regarding some of the " wont get a job blind eye to murder etc etc" he's winding you up. Some people cannot take methadone and anyway together with drink it can sometimes be a devastating combination. But why should we take the moral high ground here? Andy is a person with a problem which he admitted to. At times he is extremely obnoxious and " nasty spiteful and hateful" there is no excuse for that. However before we condemn him how many of us saints do not have a problem locked away. I for one have!! I don't really think it matters whether his behaviour is typical of anything. His behaviour - such as that of some others here - was not acceptable at times. You are going to have to live with the fact that he was not very popular, irrespective of whether he is an addict or not.
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Post by Lisa on Jan 6, 2009 11:03:21 GMT -6
so Tim, you seem intent on exposing everyone else's credentials. what exactly are your credentials? Middle aged lots of children. Law student spent years in court. Children left home some of them anyway. Decided that it was time to change. 3 years studying in my spare time and work now as psychiatric nurse ( probably wrong English term ) not in a hospital but within social welfare. Prove it.
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Post by mel77 on Jan 6, 2009 11:05:41 GMT -6
Lol Lisa. Lol Lol.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 11:49:16 GMT -6
Middle aged lots of children. Law student spent years in court. Children left home some of them anyway. Decided that it was time to change. 3 years studying in my spare time and work now as psychiatric nurse ( probably wrong English term ) not in a hospital but within social welfare. You are a qualified psychiatric nurse? Tell me Tim, what do you in your opinion think constitutes a severe and enduring Mental illness? Eeeeerrrrrr one that won't go away? sic Hey I'm the nurse you are the qualified guy who gets into brawls with your quack buddies.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 11:49:56 GMT -6
Middle aged lots of children. Law student spent years in court. Children left home some of them anyway. Decided that it was time to change. 3 years studying in my spare time and work now as psychiatric nurse ( probably wrong English term ) not in a hospital but within social welfare. Prove it. Well as long as you can Swedish??
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Post by Lisa on Jan 6, 2009 12:06:15 GMT -6
Well as long as you can Swedish?? When did Swedish become a verb?
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 6, 2009 12:09:01 GMT -6
Well as long as you can Swedish?? When did Swedish become a verb? ;D Man I needed that.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 12:23:13 GMT -6
Well as long as you can Swedish?? When did Swedish become a verb? Sorry I did a direct translation: Så länge du kan svenska = Well as long as you know Swedish.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 12:24:09 GMT -6
When did Swedish become a verb? ;D Man I needed that. Sorry that I made a mistake!! Still if it takes that little to make your day.
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gillypod
Old Hand
PRO-DP Scot. PTO hates me - I am blessed
Posts: 596
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Post by gillypod on Jan 6, 2009 12:52:47 GMT -6
Sorry that I made a mistake!! Still if it takes that little to make your day. TimS, give it up - you are NEVER going to win.
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Post by wrench on Jan 6, 2009 12:59:51 GMT -6
Sorry that I made a mistake!! Still if it takes that little to make your day. TimS, give it up - you are NEVER going to win. SSSHHHHH!!! don't let the cat out of the bag ;D
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gillypod
Old Hand
PRO-DP Scot. PTO hates me - I am blessed
Posts: 596
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Post by gillypod on Jan 6, 2009 13:01:30 GMT -6
TimS, give it up - you are NEVER going to win. SSSHHHHH!!! don't let the cat out of the bag ;D Whoops - my bad
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Post by ltdc on Jan 6, 2009 13:39:56 GMT -6
Tim, you are blind as a bat to what Andy is about. Andy has a substance abuse problem, self induced of course, but still a problem. Andy has no desire to "fix" this problem. If Andy came here and admitted his problem, admitted he was having problems but trying, he would get nothing but support from this board. but he doesn't do that. he comes here and tells us heroin use is normal in the UK so it's not his fault he's a junkie, doesn't like methadone, is a welfare fraud and cheat and proud of it. is a lousy spouse/companion and is proud of it. is lazy and won't even try to find work and better himself and is proud of it, would turn a blind eye to murder if a friend or family member committed it and is proud to say so. Andy is not berated on this board because he is an addict but because he's basically just a lazy pr!ck and proud of it. And what he is saying is typical of a person with a heavy addiction. Regarding some of the " wont get a job blind eye to murder etc etc" he's winding you up. Some people cannot take methadone and anyway together with drink it can sometimes be a devastating combination. But why should we take the moral high ground here? Andy is a person with a problem which he admitted to. At times he is extremely obnoxious and " nasty spiteful and hateful" there is no excuse for that. However before we condemn him how many of us saints do not have a problem locked away. I for one have!! he doesn't wind me up, but he's apparently got you by a ring in the nose this is one of the mistakes our "enlightened" society keeps making, assuming I have to tolerate a boor because he/she/it has a "self induced" problem. yeah, I've got mine, I deal with them, and don't blame them on you. I too am in the "behaviour" business, and seldom listen to words, but watch behaviour for the truth. it seldom lies. you should try it. if you can get past the tolerance/accepting/diversity polictically correct BS, you'll see it.
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Post by Lisa on Jan 6, 2009 14:00:51 GMT -6
And what he is saying is typical of a person with a heavy addiction. Regarding some of the " wont get a job blind eye to murder etc etc" he's winding you up. Some people cannot take methadone and anyway together with drink it can sometimes be a devastating combination. But why should we take the moral high ground here? Andy is a person with a problem which he admitted to. At times he is extremely obnoxious and " nasty spiteful and hateful" there is no excuse for that. However before we condemn him how many of us saints do not have a problem locked away. I for one have!! he doesn't wind me up, but he's apparently got you by a ring in the nose this is one of the mistakes our "enlightened" society keeps making, assuming I have to tolerate a boor because he/she/it has a "self induced" problem. yeah, I've got mine, I deal with them, and don't blame them on you. I too am in the "behaviour" business, and seldom listen to words, but watch behaviour for the truth. it seldom lies. you should try it. if you can get past the tolerance/accepting/diversity polictically correct BS, you'll see it. Excellent post, ltdc. Words are only words.
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 6, 2009 14:06:01 GMT -6
Sorry that I made a mistake!! Still if it takes that little to make your day. Not at all Tim. I figured it was a typo.... still was a funny exchange. These days it takes much more to make me laugh, so consider yourself special.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 14:06:42 GMT -6
And what he is saying is typical of a person with a heavy addiction. Regarding some of the " wont get a job blind eye to murder etc etc" he's winding you up. Some people cannot take methadone and anyway together with drink it can sometimes be a devastating combination. But why should we take the moral high ground here? Andy is a person with a problem which he admitted to. At times he is extremely obnoxious and " nasty spiteful and hateful" there is no excuse for that. However before we condemn him how many of us saints do not have a problem locked away. I for one have!! he doesn't wind me up, but he's apparently got you by a ring in the nose this is one of the mistakes our "enlightened" society keeps making, assuming I have to tolerate a boor because he/she/it has a "self induced" problem. yeah, I've got mine, I deal with them, and don't blame them on you. I too am in the "behaviour" business, and seldom listen to words, but watch behaviour for the truth. it seldom lies. you should try it. if you can get past the tolerance/accepting/diversity polictically correct BS, you'll see it. No ring in the nose. But admit that it is fantastic. One person who claims to be an addict with a drink problem who according to himself refuses to work and would not report his family to the police...one person gets the so many people upset. So many people decide to proclaim how low he is and how much better they are..what a joke. The guy should be admired because he got so many to show their true colours.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 14:08:14 GMT -6
Sorry that I made a mistake!! Still if it takes that little to make your day. TimS, give it up - you are NEVER going to win. Maybe not. But I'll die trying.Sorry! One of my weak points.
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 6, 2009 14:08:54 GMT -6
he doesn't wind me up, but he's apparently got you by a ring in the nose this is one of the mistakes our "enlightened" society keeps making, assuming I have to tolerate a boor because he/she/it has a "self induced" problem. yeah, I've got mine, I deal with them, and don't blame them on you. I too am in the "behaviour" business, and seldom listen to words, but watch behaviour for the truth. it seldom lies. you should try it. if you can get past the tolerance/accepting/diversity polictically correct BS, you'll see it. No ring in the nose. But admit that it is fantastic. One person who claims to be an addict with a drink problem who according to himself refuses to work and would not report his family to the police...one person gets the so many people upset. So many people decide to proclaim how low he is and how much better they are..what a joke. The guy should be admired because he got so many to show their true colours. The only person perpetuating Andy's "influence" on the board is you, Tim. If you feel that bad for the guy, go find him at a druggie forum, take him in, buy his drugs....just quit excusing the guy and the fact that him being a druggie was the least of his offenses on this board. I'm sick of talking/reading about him... give it a rest. He's a waste of space and being his apologist is well kind of retarded.
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 14:26:53 GMT -6
No ring in the nose. But admit that it is fantastic. One person who claims to be an addict with a drink problem who according to himself refuses to work and would not report his family to the police...one person gets the so many people upset. So many people decide to proclaim how low he is and how much better they are..what a joke. The guy should be admired because he got so many to show their true colours. The only person perpetuating Andy's "influence" on the board is you, Tim. If you feel that bad for the guy, go find him at a druggie forum, take him in, buy his drugs....just quit excusing the guy and the fact that him being a druggie was the least of his offenses on this board. I'm sick of talking/reading about him... give it a rest. He's a waste of space and being his apologist is well kind of retarded. No I am not excusing him because at times his behaviour was appaling to say the least. Just tired with those who believe that they own the moral high ground. And notice that the pack sank as low as he did in their urge to prove how saintly they are.
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 6, 2009 14:38:49 GMT -6
The only person perpetuating Andy's "influence" on the board is you, Tim. If you feel that bad for the guy, go find him at a druggie forum, take him in, buy his drugs....just quit excusing the guy and the fact that him being a druggie was the least of his offenses on this board. I'm sick of talking/reading about him... give it a rest. He's a waste of space and being his apologist is well kind of retarded. No I am not excusing him because at times his behaviour was appaling to say the least. Just tired with those who believe that they own the moral high ground. And notice that the pack sank as low as he did in their urge to prove how saintly they are. In your quest to point out (your opinion) that we all sank to the deep dark dregs in our distaste for an unrepentant terrible father, husband and overall loser, you are sounding like you are passing judgment of those of us who found his behavior appalling and said so. Now we're going in circles. Lotus: Andy was a fuktard. Tim: You are no higher or no less tortured than poor Andy. Lotus: Andy was a fuktard. Tim: You and the rest of you sunk so low in slamming this man. Lotus: Andy was a fuktard. Tim: I'm appalled really. No one is better than anyone else. Lotus: Andy was a fuktard. I see a pattern, Tim. Consider tossing in the towel. We get it. You felt that even though what Andy said was abhorrent, we should have been more civilized in calling him a fuktard. Noted. P.S. Andy was a fuktard.
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Post by Lisa on Jan 6, 2009 14:39:40 GMT -6
The only person perpetuating Andy's "influence" on the board is you, Tim. If you feel that bad for the guy, go find him at a druggie forum, take him in, buy his drugs....just quit excusing the guy and the fact that him being a druggie was the least of his offenses on this board. I'm sick of talking/reading about him... give it a rest. He's a waste of space and being his apologist is well kind of retarded. No I am not excusing him because at times his behaviour was appaling to say the least. Just tired with those who believe that they own the moral high ground. And notice that the pack sank as low as he did in their urge to prove how saintly they are. 1. We are taking your complaint under advisement. 2. We promise to do everything in our power to rectify the problem. 3. We hope and pray that someday we can live up to your expectations. Now, will you just shut up about Andy?
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Tim S
Old Hand
Posts: 567
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Post by Tim S on Jan 6, 2009 14:42:51 GMT -6
No I am not excusing him because at times his behaviour was appaling to say the least. Just tired with those who believe that they own the moral high ground. And notice that the pack sank as low as he did in their urge to prove how saintly they are. 1. We are taking your complaint under advisement. 2. We promise to do everything in our power to rectify the problem. 3. We hope and pray that someday we can live up to your expectations. Now, will you just shut up about Andy? NO! And anyway its up to you to read my posts!! And just where is that " Honest Anti " coz he's next.
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