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Post by Lauren on Dec 15, 2008 16:57:28 GMT -6
Haha! Yeah Lauren, i thought you said any offender is scum and they deserve whatever the prison wishes to throw at them? In my post I was stating facts, Andy. In Canada, the 14 year old chapstick stealer would not have a criminal record whe she hits 18. Also, who is going to get punished more: a 14 year old for stealing chapstick or a murderer? In Canada, the priority would be the murderer. Both cases break the law, and will be dealt with accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 19:10:35 GMT -6
Well, til we have 'to life' sentencing for ALL violent offenses, we'll go on letting (still) violent offenders back into society. It's the chance we take. But, look on the bright side... maybe they'll murder someone so we can off em and be done with it. I hope you are being sarcastic with the remark about them murdering someone else; Not at all What better reason could 'we' have for releasing those we know are still violent? for doling sickeningly laughable sentences at most of those who murder our sons, daughters, spouses, parents, siblings, friends? Meh. It's always the other guy, so it's all good, yes? Anyone. Anywhere. Anyfreakintime. And, 'we' don't seem to give a d@mn. Why, indeed? Yet, 'we' do wish it on someone every time 'we' knowingly let murderers out of our prisons. And, 'our' choices make that possible. But, me ~ sarcastic ~ NEVER. Lynne
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 20:47:49 GMT -6
I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I don't know about the US, but most teenage murderers are let out at 21 in Canada (or around that age). Canada also has some ridiculous "other" murder charges, such as Infanticide. I understand that PPD can be serious, but I find this Punishment very troublesome and easily taken advantage. Ron "Youth Criminal Justice Act: The maximum sentence a juvenile under the age of eighteen can receive for one crime is two years and the maximum sentence for multiple crimes is three years.[54] However, for first degree murder, a juvenile can be sentenced to up to ten years in custody, and for second degree murder, he or she may be sentenced to up to seven years in custody." (These are Max. not Min. sentences) "Punishment for infanticide 237. Every female person who commits infanticide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years. R.S., c. C-34, s. 220. "
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Post by Lauren on Dec 15, 2008 20:58:05 GMT -6
I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I don't know about the US, but most teenage murderers are let out at 21 in Canada (or around that age). Canada also has some ridiculous "other" murder charges, such as Infanticide. I understand that PPD can be serious, but I find this Punishment very troublesome and easily taken advantage. Ron "Youth Criminal Justice Act: The maximum sentence a juvenile under the age of eighteen can receive for one crime is two years and the maximum sentence for multiple crimes is three years.[54] However, for first degree murder, a juvenile can be sentenced to up to ten years in custody, and for second degree murder, he or she may be sentenced to up to seven years in custody." (These are Max. not Min. sentences) "Punishment for infanticide 237. Every female person who commits infanticide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years. R.S., c. C-34, s. 220. " Canada also doesn't have LWOP. The United States has the better Justice System when it comes to sentencing murderers. Adults, in Canada, get 25 years max in prison, unless they are likely to reoffend again like Paul Bernardo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 21:03:13 GMT -6
In Canada, ... Also, who is going to get punished more: a 14 year old for stealing chapstick or a murderer? In Canada, the priority would be the murderer. Both cases break the law, and will be dealt with accordingly. That is not really the case, I believe during the "Young Offenders Act" days, every child offender (no matter what the crime, had to be released when they were 21. In addition every "Youth Offender" had the right to have their Juvenile file sealed (no matter what the crime was) and it was only "revisited" upon the person committing a crime as an adult (where it could affect adult sentencing). Most shoplifting charges were dropped, because it was not worth pursuing it against a young offender. Ron
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 21:32:37 GMT -6
Canada also doesn't have LWOP. The United States has the better Justice System when it comes to sentencing murderers. Adults, in Canada, get 25 years max in prison, unless they are likely to reoffend again like Paul Bernardo. Canada does have the "Dangerous Offender Act" where an offender (no matter what the original crime was) can be held for an indefinite time (Usually resulting in LWOP). There are over 500 Dangerous Offenders in Canadian custody. While I agree Canadian sentences are not long enough, Canada does have a positive track record of murderers re-offending (As in low). With (If I remember correctly), Canadian murderers killing again was 0.3% of all released murderers. The majority of these murders that kill again were originally found guilty of manslaughter for the first murder (ie. they would be released again). Since I oppose the DP, I cannot agree the US has a better Justice system. I know that I feel incredible safe everywhere in Canada (Even in the Jane & Finch area, where my wife worked at the Humber River Hospital for a couple of years (we lived at Eglington and Dufferin area for almost 4 years)). Can many Americans truly say they feel safe, Without having a gun in their purse ? Ron
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Post by Charlene on Dec 15, 2008 23:12:26 GMT -6
You've become very crabby in your old age, I see. I wasn't having "a go" at you, simply agreeing that you didn't know much about it. I didn't claim to be an expert on European law, and in fact know as little about it as you do about ours. I like it that way. The difference between us is that I don't really have opinions about your criminal justice system. I don't understand your societal issues therefore I don't feel qualified to complain about how you handle your criminals. I just think it's too bad so many Europeans pay more attention to the US justice system than they do to their own. Any normal human being, collection of human beings, or country is always likely to pay attention to any justice system that is so extreme that it executed those already incarcerated Charlene. Its precisley because the US goes to that extreme that it attracts the negative attention that it does from other countries. Really? Funny how we rarely hear you Euros talk about executions in China, Saudi Arabia or Iran, isn't it? There are around 50 countries that allow for capital punishment; where is your concern for those extreme justice systems?
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Post by Tim S on Dec 16, 2008 0:53:34 GMT -6
Any normal human being, collection of human beings, or country is always likely to pay attention to any justice system that is so extreme that it executed those already incarcerated Charlene. Its precisley because the US goes to that extreme that it attracts the negative attention that it does from other countries. Really? Funny how we rarely hear you Euros talk about executions in China, Saudi Arabia or Iran, isn't it? There are around 50 countries that allow for capital punishment; where is your concern for those extreme justice systems? Well firstly the USA is a free country allowing insight into it's affairs..and then there is the language thing.
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Post by me1 on Dec 16, 2008 2:09:19 GMT -6
I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I don't know about the US, but most teenage murderers are let out at 21 in Canada (or around that age). Canada also has some ridiculous "other" murder charges, such as Infanticide. I understand that PPD can be serious, but I find this Punishment very troublesome and easily taken advantage. Ron "Youth Criminal Justice Act: The maximum sentence a juvenile under the age of eighteen can receive for one crime is two years and the maximum sentence for multiple crimes is three years.[54] However, for first degree murder, a juvenile can be sentenced to up to ten years in custody, and for second degree murder, he or she may be sentenced to up to seven years in custody." (These are Max. not Min. sentences) "Punishment for infanticide 237. Every female person who commits infanticide is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years. R.S., c. C-34, s. 220. " That is absolutely crazy. So all that talk about the boy getting the death penalty for shooting dead his dad and his dads friend is nonsense. He will just have to serve a few years.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 16, 2008 9:39:26 GMT -6
Any normal human being, collection of human beings, or country is always likely to pay attention to any justice system that is so extreme that it executed those already incarcerated Charlene. Its precisley because the US goes to that extreme that it attracts the negative attention that it does from other countries. Really? Funny how we rarely hear you Euros talk about executions in China, Saudi Arabia or Iran, isn't it? There are around 50 countries that allow for capital punishment; where is your concern for those extreme justice systems? Amnesty International is active in all of those areas and countries, and whilst the subject and indididual instancesw come up on this board on occasions referring to other countries, the concentration is naturally going to be on the American system for the greater part here given the board, its creator etc is American. Its nice3 however to have you acknowledge our efforts being a pain in the nether regions, it shows its effective!
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Post by me1 on Dec 16, 2008 9:44:38 GMT -6
Have you been drinking felix?
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 16, 2008 9:46:04 GMT -6
Have you been drinking felix? Not at all Andy, thats on Thursday nights only for the last while, why?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 15:44:40 GMT -6
That is absolutely crazy. So all that talk about the boy getting the death penalty for shooting dead his dad and his dads friend is nonsense. He will just have to serve a few years. The 8 year old boy was in the US, but I believe I read all charges were dropped. The story about the DP for the 8 year old was a farce written by some loser (ex con). Really? Funny how we rarely hear you Euros talk about executions in China, Saudi Arabia or Iran, isn't it? There are around 50 countries that allow for capital punishment; where is your concern for those extreme justice systems? I believe there are many reasons the US is targeted by people that oppose the DP: 1) The US has a real democracy (allowed to protest, free of imprisonment for disagreeing with the government). 2) The US supports human rights (well except for the DP) 3) The US has real clout 4) The US has a valid and fair justice system (Again minus the DP) 5) Many European states have a large population that can communicate in English (over other languages) 6) The US has ceased executions once 7) Cultural similarities with European and other English speaking nations Ron
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Post by me1 on Dec 16, 2008 17:44:02 GMT -6
Have you been drinking felix? Not at all Andy, thats on Thursday nights only for the last while, why? It's just that your spelling is all over the place. At first i thought someone had hacked your account.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 16, 2008 18:25:47 GMT -6
Not at all Andy, thats on Thursday nights only for the last while, why? It's just that your spelling is all over the place. At first i thought someone had hacked your account. Naw, its not my spelling, they're just typo's, I am not an expert typist so when I am responding fast and furiously I will make typo's quite often.
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Post by me1 on Dec 16, 2008 20:02:39 GMT -6
It's just that your spelling is all over the place. At first i thought someone had hacked your account. Naw, its not my spelling, they're just typo's, I am not an expert typist so when I am responding fast and furiously I will make typo's quite often. Hahaha, do you really get that worked up over what you read on here? Calm down Felix and type one handed while looking at the keys thats what i do, lol.
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Post by Lauren on Dec 16, 2008 21:15:27 GMT -6
Since I oppose the DP, I cannot agree the US has a better Justice system. Ron I wasn't talking about the DP when I mentioned it. I meant that they get sentenced for each murder they committ, each life taken is added to the years, so instead of 25 years like Canada, they would have 114 or whatever. I will always be upset with the Canada justice system for letting Karla Homolka walk free.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 21:28:06 GMT -6
Since I oppose the DP, I cannot agree the US has a better Justice system. Ron I wasn't talking about the DP when I mentioned it. I meant that they get sentenced for each murder they committ, each life taken is added to the years, so instead of 25 years like Canada, they would have 114 or whatever. I will always be upset with the Canada justice system for letting Karla Homolka walk free. Well the prosecution was fooled by that women, if she was convicted of the murder charges she deserved I would assume she would still be in prison.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 22:40:01 GMT -6
I wasn't talking about the DP when I mentioned it. I meant that they get sentenced for each murder they committ, each life taken is added to the years, so instead of 25 years like Canada, they would have 114 or whatever. I agree that Canadian sentences are lax, compared to American. Canada also has a "Cottage" (minimum Security) style prison for murderers that can not cope in the outside world (but are not considered dangerous). I will always be upset with the Canada justice system for letting Karla Homolka walk free. They didn't let her walk free, they gave her a "sweet heart deal", because they believed she was an abused house wife and didn't have the crucial evidence to convict Paul. After she got the deal, they found the tapes. I remember watching "W5" or the "5th Estate" in the late 90's and they were blaming a "feminist" Attorney General who pushed the deal through. What I find even more disturbing is Robert Pickton only being convicted of 2nd degree murder for the murder of 26 prostitutes (he is to be tried for 23 more). How can you murder almost 50 people and it be considered 2nd degree ? Ron
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Post by Grey on Dec 17, 2008 12:20:03 GMT -6
The deal was to find the tapes, she told them where they were...now if they only teared the house apart the first time they wouldn't need to make a deal. I wasn't talking about the DP when I mentioned it. I meant that they get sentenced for each murder they committ, each life taken is added to the years, so instead of 25 years like Canada, they would have 114 or whatever. I agree that Canadian sentences are lax, compared to American. Canada also has a "Cottage" (minimum Security) style prison for murderers that can not cope in the outside world (but are not considered dangerous). I will always be upset with the Canada justice system for letting Karla Homolka walk free. They didn't let her walk free, they gave her a "sweet heart deal", because they believed she was an abused house wife and didn't have the crucial evidence to convict Paul. After she got the deal, they found the tapes. I remember watching "W5" or the "5th Estate" in the late 90's and they were blaming a "feminist" Attorney General who pushed the deal through. What I find even more disturbing is Robert Pickton only being convicted of 2nd degree murder for the murder of 26 prostitutes (he is to be tried for 23 more). How can you murder almost 50 people and it be considered 2nd degree ? Ron
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 15:04:52 GMT -6
The deal was to find the tapes, she told them where they were...now if they only teared the house apart the first time they wouldn't need to make a deal. Although I am not positive about this, she (homolka) didn't know where the tapes were hid (there is a story she was searching for the tapes when her parents went to remove her from the house after Paul had beat her). The search warrant was very specific, they couldn't remove anything from the house that was not included in the original search warrants. They were not allowed to tear the walls down and the police had to watch the tapes in the house. Ron
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Post by Lauren on Dec 17, 2008 15:14:44 GMT -6
The deal was to find the tapes, she told them where they were...now if they only teared the house apart the first time they wouldn't need to make a deal. Although I am not positive about this, she (homolka) didn't know where the tapes were hid (there is a story she was searching for the tapes when her parents went to remove her from the house after Paul had beat her). The search warrant was very specific, they couldn't remove anything from the house that was not included in the original search warrants. They were not allowed to tear the walls down and the police had to watch the tapes in the house. Ron My friend's professor worked on the Bernardo-Homolka case as an investigating officer. He mentioned that the deal was for information on the whereabouts of the tapes. No one would have guessed to look in the bathroom fan. She had to know where they were.
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Post by Tracy on Dec 17, 2008 15:53:20 GMT -6
Well i live in the heart of a city, i suppose it would even be considered the "inner city", ive never owned a gun and dont know anyone who carries one around. I feel safe where ever i go, in fact i think i am more street smart having grown up where i did. I have friends that grew up in the suburbs and they really have no idea compared to those of us that grew up in the 'hood. It does make me sad to see the USA portrayed as a crime haven, and that you cant even walk the streets, my cities crime rate is lower than alot of places so that is one reasons i like it (i do absolutely HATE our winters tho). btw st paul/minneapolis has about 550,000 people.
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Post by Tracy on Dec 17, 2008 16:57:41 GMT -6
Wait i must add that as much as i do feel safe i do know 2 people that have been murdered, both less than a mile from my home, so i dunno maybe im contradicting myself here...
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 17, 2008 17:34:14 GMT -6
Wait i must add that as much as i do feel safe i do know 2 people that have been murdered, both less than a mile from my home, so i dunno maybe im contradicting myself here... Not neccessarily, particularly if it was you who murdered them! ;D
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Post by me1 on Dec 17, 2008 17:37:40 GMT -6
Wait i must add that as much as i do feel safe i do know 2 people that have been murdered, both less than a mile from my home, so i dunno maybe im contradicting myself here... Probably better off getting a small handgun to keep in your house to be honest. Seeing as all the baddies in the USA have guns you should level your chances by getting one yourself!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2008 1:32:58 GMT -6
Vigorous detail? NO.....Vigorous Bull****...Yes! I work DR 12 hours a day and 99% of what these offenders write is pure BS. The only thing they are interested in is suckering Antis into bankrolling their "trustfunds".
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Post by me1 on Dec 18, 2008 2:52:15 GMT -6
I've never been incarcerated on death row myself ( thank god ) but i can't imagine what he says is too far from the truth. You as a CO should'nt even have any view on DR inmates personally. It interferes with you doing your job professionally if you do.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2008 3:02:58 GMT -6
I've never been incarcerated on death row myse &lf ( thank god ) but i can't imagine what he says is too far from the truth. You as a CO should'nt even have any view on DR inmates personally. It interferes with you doing your job professionally if you do. The big difference is the death sentence & they sit around on there but all day,they are safer on death row than being in Gen pop, fer example i dont think eric nenno would of been able to avoid trouble in gen pop given his child crimes, had he been given a lwop sentence, he may have been killed years ago by hardcore inmates..jmo
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Post by mel77 on Dec 18, 2008 6:47:44 GMT -6
I've never been incarcerated on death row myself ( thank god ) What a totally weird thing to say.
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