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Post by D.E.E. on Dec 14, 2008 18:37:50 GMT -6
We are talking about peoples lives here Lawrence not wether someone can change to get a job. You are so right we are talking about people's lives here, these people came to prison for all kinds of nice things like murder, attempted murder, rape, rape of a child, arson, assault, armed robbery and a multitude of other crimes that left a trail of victims behind them. These victims often will carry the marks for the rest of their lives (at least those that survived it). While in prison did they make a decision to change? No that is why they are in high security and now they assault officers and prison workers in much the same manner that they did while being free. You have no concept of what life is like in a prison at least not one in the US. I have no sympathy for them and could care less if I had to wake them up ever hour on the hour, but since that is not my job I don't do it. I do not make life any harder than I have to, but neither do I make it any easier, what I do is my job. They are criminals who have no intent to change and make that clear every day, the real sad thing is a lot of these people will be going back to their community right out of high Security and will be victimizing people again, and all you can worry about is what time we have to wake them up.
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Post by me1 on Dec 14, 2008 19:00:38 GMT -6
They are not all the same. You Talk as though all convicts should be put in the same group - Lowlifes. The realities are many prison inmates are not muderers and don't deserve to be mentally broken.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 14, 2008 19:52:10 GMT -6
We are talking about peoples lives here Lawrence not wether someone can change to get a job. You are so right we are talking about people's lives here, these people came to prison for all kinds of nice things like murder, attempted murder, rape, rape of a child, arson, assault, armed robbery and a multitude of other crimes that left a trail of victims behind them. These victims often will carry the marks for the rest of their lives (at least those that survived it). While in prison did they make a decision to change? No that is why they are in high security and now they assault officers and prison workers in much the same manner that they did while being free. You have no concept of what life is like in a prison at least not one in the US. I have no sympathy for them and could care less if I had to wake them up ever hour on the hour, but since that is not my job I don't do it. I do not make life any harder than I have to, but neither do I make it any easier, what I do is my job. They are criminals who have no intent to change and make that clear every day, the real sad thing is a lot of these people will be going back to their community right out of high Security and will be victimizing people again, and all you can worry about is what time we have to wake them up. From high security to the community direct? Its no wonder you guys have problems DEE, should'nt you have a low security step down fro a graded return?
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Post by D.E.E. on Dec 14, 2008 21:07:04 GMT -6
You are so right we are talking about people's lives here, these people came to prison for all kinds of nice things like murder, attempted murder, rape, rape of a child, arson, assault, armed robbery and a multitude of other crimes that left a trail of victims behind them. These victims often will carry the marks for the rest of their lives (at least those that survived it). While in prison did they make a decision to change? No that is why they are in high security and now they assault officers and prison workers in much the same manner that they did while being free. You have no concept of what life is like in a prison at least not one in the US. I have no sympathy for them and could care less if I had to wake them up ever hour on the hour, but since that is not my job I don't do it. I do not make life any harder than I have to, but neither do I make it any easier, what I do is my job. They are criminals who have no intent to change and make that clear every day, the real sad thing is a lot of these people will be going back to their community right out of high Security and will be victimizing people again, and all you can worry about is what time we have to wake them up. From high security to the community direct? Its no wonder you guys have problems DEE, should'nt you have a low security step down fro a graded return? Yes, is the simple answer we should. The problem remains that they complete their sentence and we can not hold them, could you guys if they had completed their entire sentence?
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Post by Lauren on Dec 14, 2008 22:01:01 GMT -6
They are not all the same. You Talk as though all convicts should be put in the same group - Lowlifes. The realities are many prison inmates are not muderers and don't deserve to be mentally broken. Criminals are lowlifes. They take stuff that doesn't belong to them, whether it be murder or robbery. That is low.
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Post by Elric of Melnibone on Dec 14, 2008 22:13:21 GMT -6
Exactly, Lauren.
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Dec 15, 2008 1:44:07 GMT -6
They are not all the same. You Talk as though all convicts should be put in the same group - Lowlifes. The realities are many prison inmates are not muderers and don't deserve to be mentally broken. Criminals are lowlifes. They take stuff that doesn't belong to them, whether it be murder or robbery. That is low. Ok well that is why they are in prison so at least we agree on that. However the majority do have a date when they are going to leave the prison. So surely it is not a waste of money to do as much as possible to try and make sure they don't end up there again?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 6:32:27 GMT -6
Criminals are lowlifes. They take stuff that doesn't belong to them, whether it be murder or robbery. That is low. Ok well that is why they are in prison so at least we agree on that. However the majority do have a date when they are going to leave the prison. So surely it is not a waste of money to do as much as possible to try and make sure they don't end up there again? That is there for those who behave themselves and are not a danger to others. How can they let them into Gen Pop and into programs if they are consistently violent?
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Dec 15, 2008 7:59:58 GMT -6
So if they misbehave why are they let out?
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Post by D.E.E. on Dec 15, 2008 8:28:10 GMT -6
So if they misbehave why are they let out? 3 We let them out because the law says we have to. They have completed their sentences and have broken no laws that would extend their sentence. If they have done something such as chunk on an officer and it is body fluids they will be taken back to court and given a new sentence based on that crime. Most who are close to completeing their sentence do not do those kinds of crimes. They do things that will keep them in High Security but not enough to take them to court.
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Dec 15, 2008 8:37:32 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 8:58:49 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. Well, til we have 'to life' sentencing for ALL violent offenses, we'll go on letting (still) violent offenders back into society. It's the chance we take. But, look on the bright side... maybe they'll murder someone so we can off em and be done with it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 9:43:16 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. Well, til we have 'to life' sentencing for ALL violent offenses, we'll go on letting (still) violent offenders back into society. It's the chance we take. But, look on the bright side... maybe they'll murder someone so we can off em and be done with it. And perhaps if the media were to spend more time reporting on examples of violent prisoners being released directly from ad seg, instead of seemingly wanting to make prisoners appear to be cuddly little victims of circumstance so very often.... Perhaps then more people would realize that this is something to be up in arms about as well, and perhaps then they would let their legislators know they wanted something done about it. And no on that last sentence, that is never a bright side in any way at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 9:57:30 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. Well, til we have 'to life' sentencing for ALL violent offenses, we'll go on letting (still) violent offenders back into society. It's the chance we take. But, look on the bright side... maybe they'll murder someone so we can off em and be done with it. I hope you are being sarcastic with the remark about them murdering someone else; who exactly do you have in mind that should be murdered and why wish that on anyone else?
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Post by Lotus Flower on Dec 15, 2008 10:09:23 GMT -6
Well, til we have 'to life' sentencing for ALL violent offenses, we'll go on letting (still) violent offenders back into society. It's the chance we take. But, look on the bright side... maybe they'll murder someone so we can off em and be done with it. I hope you are being sarcastic with the remark about them murdering someone else; who exactly do you have in mind that should be murdered and why wish that on anyone else? I won't portend to speak for our fair Lynne (she's FAR louder than me anyway) but she was being sarcastic for good reason. WW is an anti but she is also consistently anti-murderer and anti-parole for murderers and dammit if I don't understand her anger at letting these guys out to take another innocent so another family can mourn. It is only after they "reoffend" that we finally take murder seriously and put them away... if we're lucky. In essence we give them a "freebie" first victim, disgusting. We must remove parole as an option for all murder, not some, not just those that offend the sensibilities of some but all who take an innocent life.
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Post by Charlene on Dec 15, 2008 10:57:50 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. You're right, you do know very little about it. If a person has served the time they were sentenced to, there is no choice but to release them. Parole is the transition period from prison to freedom. They have to report at least monthly to their parole officer, and depending on the offense, they have other requirements such as holding a job, staying away from other felons, being home by a certain hour, etc. This period of (supposedly) keeping a tight rein on a released offender is designed to guide them into a productive lifestyle. But people still make choices and many make very bad ones. In some states, they have a procedure known as civil commitment, where offenders (usually sex offenders) can be held beyond the terms of their sentence if they are deemed to be a danger to society. This is very controversial and has a lot of opposition from the liberal faction. Just regular liberals, not even liberal liberals.... But honestly, coming from someone in Sweden, or really anywhere in Europe where sentences frequently amount to little more than a slap on the wrist, it's odd that you seem to suggest that the US justice system is too lenient.
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Post by D.E.E. on Dec 15, 2008 11:14:51 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. I believe your question has been answered, however I will add most CO's who work in High Security or Ad Seg (the correct term) are in agreement that most of those who leave are a danger to the public but we can do little about it. I will give you this at least you admit to not know much about it, unlike our resident expert Andy.
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Dec 15, 2008 11:45:09 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. You're right, you do know very little about it. If a person has served the time they were sentenced to, there is no choice but to release them. Parole is the transition period from prison to freedom. They have to report at least monthly to their parole officer, and depending on the offense, they have other requirements such as holding a job, staying away from other felons, being home by a certain hour, etc. This period of (supposedly) keeping a tight rein on a released offender is designed to guide them into a productive lifestyle. But people still make choices and many make very bad ones. In some states, they have a procedure known as civil commitment, where offenders (usually sex offenders) can be held beyond the terms of their sentence if they are deemed to be a danger to society. This is very controversial and has a lot of opposition from the liberal faction. Just regular liberals, not even liberal liberals.... But honestly, coming from someone in Sweden, or really anywhere in Europe where sentences frequently amount to little more than a slap on the wrist, it's odd that you seem to suggest that the US justice system is too lenient. Woke up on the wrong side did we? I was replying to DEE statement that they do things that keep them as high risk prisoners yet out of court. If a person has raped or killed then I for one want to know that if that person is coming out of prison at some time then hopefully the sentence has served a dual purpose. 1. As punishment. 2. That the person is not going to do the crime again. ( which is of course a risk) And as you had a go at me:since when have you been an expert on the law in the European countries? And yes I do think that I know more about the USA penal system than you know about ours And nowhere did I suggest that it was lenient. It was merely a question.
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Post by me1 on Dec 15, 2008 12:17:19 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. We do exactly the same thing here in the UK Tim. HMP Belmarsh is a maximum security prison as is Woodhill in Milton Keynes but that does'nt mean all the inmates in there are CAT A. Maximum security prisons house anyone from driving offenders to terrorists and murderers.
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Post by me1 on Dec 15, 2008 12:24:23 GMT -6
Now I'm not slaming your system ( I know very little about it ) however it would seem that the system is letting people out that are still a danger to the public. I mean not even the most liberal liberal could say that a person who was in high security the day before should be let out. I believe your question has been answered, however I will add most CO's who work in High Security or Ad Seg (the correct term) are in agreement that most of those who leave are a danger to the public but we can do little about it. I will give you this at least you admit to not know much about it, unlike our resident expert Andy. Now i'm no expert DEE but i watched a documentary about youth killers in the USA and it said if they pleaded guilty then they could do a deal to only serve until they turn 21. Is this true and if so thats rediculous.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Dec 15, 2008 14:42:48 GMT -6
I hope you are being sarcastic with the remark about them murdering someone else; who exactly do you have in mind that should be murdered and why wish that on anyone else? In essence we give them a "freebie" first victim, disgusting. This was not a murder case, but in court this fall I heard a defense attorney ask the judge to (and I quote) "give his client one more victim." As I said, it was not a homicide case. But still. Anyway, the judge was not impressed and sent the dude to prison.
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Post by Charlene on Dec 15, 2008 15:17:55 GMT -6
You're right, you do know very little about it. If a person has served the time they were sentenced to, there is no choice but to release them. Parole is the transition period from prison to freedom. They have to report at least monthly to their parole officer, and depending on the offense, they have other requirements such as holding a job, staying away from other felons, being home by a certain hour, etc. This period of (supposedly) keeping a tight rein on a released offender is designed to guide them into a productive lifestyle. But people still make choices and many make very bad ones. In some states, they have a procedure known as civil commitment, where offenders (usually sex offenders) can be held beyond the terms of their sentence if they are deemed to be a danger to society. This is very controversial and has a lot of opposition from the liberal faction. Just regular liberals, not even liberal liberals.... But honestly, coming from someone in Sweden, or really anywhere in Europe where sentences frequently amount to little more than a slap on the wrist, it's odd that you seem to suggest that the US justice system is too lenient. Woke up on the wrong side did we? I was replying to DEE statement that they do things that keep them as high risk prisoners yet out of court. If a person has raped or killed then I for one want to know that if that person is coming out of prison at some time then hopefully the sentence has served a dual purpose. 1. As punishment. 2. That the person is not going to do the crime again. ( which is of course a risk) And as you had a go at me:since when have you been an expert on the law in the European countries? And yes I do think that I know more about the USA penal system than you know about ours And nowhere did I suggest that it was lenient. It was merely a question. You've become very crabby in your old age, I see. I wasn't having "a go" at you, simply agreeing that you didn't know much about it. I didn't claim to be an expert on European law, and in fact know as little about it as you do about ours. I like it that way. The difference between us is that I don't really have opinions about your criminal justice system. I don't understand your societal issues therefore I don't feel qualified to complain about how you handle your criminals. I just think it's too bad so many Europeans pay more attention to the US justice system than they do to their own.
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Dec 15, 2008 15:54:53 GMT -6
Woke up on the wrong side did we? I was replying to DEE statement that they do things that keep them as high risk prisoners yet out of court. If a person has raped or killed then I for one want to know that if that person is coming out of prison at some time then hopefully the sentence has served a dual purpose. 1. As punishment. 2. That the person is not going to do the crime again. ( which is of course a risk) And as you had a go at me:since when have you been an expert on the law in the European countries? And yes I do think that I know more about the USA penal system than you know about ours And nowhere did I suggest that it was lenient. It was merely a question. You've become very crabby in your old age, I see. I wasn't having "a go" at you, simply agreeing that you didn't know much about it. I didn't claim to be an expert on European law, and in fact know as little about it as you do about ours. I like it that way. The difference between us is that I don't really have opinions about your criminal justice system. I don't understand your societal issues therefore I don't feel qualified to complain about how you handle your criminals. I just think it's too bad so many Europeans pay more attention to the US justice system than they do to their own. Ha my old age! Look I may be 51 but it is a well known fact that women age quicker than men so even if you are younger than me you are catching up at a quicker rate than I am growing older!! Fortunately our youngest child was born eight years ago. That keeps me "young". If you did not want us here.......it's your board. By probing and asking, criticizing at times I learn more. If I have shown disrespect to your country it was and will always be unintentional.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 15, 2008 16:34:24 GMT -6
Woke up on the wrong side did we? I was replying to DEE statement that they do things that keep them as high risk prisoners yet out of court. If a person has raped or killed then I for one want to know that if that person is coming out of prison at some time then hopefully the sentence has served a dual purpose. 1. As punishment. 2. That the person is not going to do the crime again. ( which is of course a risk) And as you had a go at me:since when have you been an expert on the law in the European countries? And yes I do think that I know more about the USA penal system than you know about ours And nowhere did I suggest that it was lenient. It was merely a question. You've become very crabby in your old age, I see. I wasn't having "a go" at you, simply agreeing that you didn't know much about it. I didn't claim to be an expert on European law, and in fact know as little about it as you do about ours. I like it that way. The difference between us is that I don't really have opinions about your criminal justice system. I don't understand your societal issues therefore I don't feel qualified to complain about how you handle your criminals. I just think it's too bad so many Europeans pay more attention to the US justice system than they do to their own. Any normal human being, collection of human beings, or country is always likely to pay attention to any justice system that is so extreme that it executed those already incarcerated Charlene. Its precisley because the US goes to that extreme that it attracts the negative attention that it does from other countries. Same with Mr Bush, he has ridden rough shod over the opinions opf any other country for years now and it sis'nt clever at all, I believe Hilary knows that and this explains the way she indicated foreign policy would proceed from now on. Real strength comes from well tested, respected and tried allies, and not from the ignorant and blinkered policies of your current incumbent.
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Post by Lauren on Dec 15, 2008 16:34:50 GMT -6
I believe your question has been answered, however I will add most CO's who work in High Security or Ad Seg (the correct term) are in agreement that most of those who leave are a danger to the public but we can do little about it. I will give you this at least you admit to not know much about it, unlike our resident expert Andy. Now i'm no expert DEE but i watched a documentary about youth killers in the USA and it said if they pleaded guilty then they could do a deal to only serve until they turn 21. Is this true and if so thats rediculous. I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I know in Canada, if a person is caught shoplifting (a 14 year old steals a chapstick as an example) will likely have that criminal record erased when they hit 18. However, stealing a chap stick is minor compared to killing someone.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 15, 2008 16:36:49 GMT -6
Now i'm no expert DEE but i watched a documentary about youth killers in the USA and it said if they pleaded guilty then they could do a deal to only serve until they turn 21. Is this true and if so thats rediculous. I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I know in Canada, if a person is caught shoplifting (a 14 year old steals a chapstick as an example) will likely have that criminal record erased when they hit 18. However, stealing a chap stick is minor compared to killing someone. Is it?
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Post by Lauren on Dec 15, 2008 16:38:01 GMT -6
Criminals are lowlifes. They take stuff that doesn't belong to them, whether it be murder or robbery. That is low. Ok well that is why they are in prison so at least we agree on that. However the majority do have a date when they are going to leave the prison. So surely it is not a waste of money to do as much as possible to try and make sure they don't end up there again? There has been a lot of money put into making sure people don't end up there in the first place. If they can't follow rules placed to protect other people, what is the point?
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Post by Lauren on Dec 15, 2008 16:39:23 GMT -6
I don't know how the USA justice system works, but letting out youth killers at 21 seems pretty risky--especially if they are at high risk to reoffend again. I know in Canada, if a person is caught shoplifting (a 14 year old steals a chapstick as an example) will likely have that criminal record erased when they hit 18. However, stealing a chap stick is minor compared to killing someone. Is it? Good point.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 15, 2008 16:43:50 GMT -6
Is it? Good point. Ah well, I can see you're not biting! ;D
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Post by me1 on Dec 15, 2008 16:50:15 GMT -6
Haha! Yeah Lauren, i thought you said any offender is scum and they deserve whatever the prison wishes to throw at them?
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