|
Post by Kay on Feb 15, 2010 13:09:19 GMT -6
I'm sorry this is happening to you Darla, who is their right mind would want their children's father to be a murderer? I can't answer what I would do it your situation, however, I don't think I could bear to read her lies and manipulations. I've often read that pen pals become like the murderers they associate with, seems, once again, to be true in your case. I don't believe death row inmates should be allowed to marry, in my opinion, visitors should be restricted to immediate family and clergy. Perhaps you missed the next post where she says she doesn't want your support. We've been friends for long enough, sweetheart, for you to know, I'm probably going to offer anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 15, 2010 13:05:53 GMT -6
There is a heck of a lot of mental torture in life Kay with out having to care about the mental torture of murderers! wth cares! Got that right!!!! Me, I guess, just being honest, I didn't expect anyone here to agree.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 15, 2010 7:09:40 GMT -6
Truly Pro Here, so if you are Anti, you can skip my rant. I was there when my Mother was Murdered on July 20th, 1994, less than 30 feet from where she fell, they dragged me away before I saw details but I knew she was dead. But since I can Not identify the murderer, this gives his wife (Scumpal who married him 14 years AFTER my mother's Murder while he was on death row) the right to stalk my family and actually villify them on the world wide net. She says her children are his children, and I know that she didn't even know him in 1994. He was arrested 3 days AFTER my mother was MURDERED. She Married him within the last 5 years. I refuse to go on the ANTI Death Penalty website, but my sisters go there. They are trying to tell our side of the story, and I love them for that. But since I was a witness to the murder, I can't go there and hear that my Mother's Murderer's WIFE is telling the world that he is innocent. I just can't hear her defend him. My Question to everyone, Anti and Pro alike, should I go on that website? I have been in the system 15 years , testifying, protesting to the other 4 who were a part of the robbery. I have been at every hearing and court date that has been on the dockett. Is anyone out there that has had a similar experience? Please email me if you have had a similar experience. Darla I'm sorry this is happening to you Darla, who is their right mind would want their children's father to be a murderer? I can't answer what I would do it your situation, however, I don't think I could bear to read her lies and manipulations. I've often read that pen pals become like the murderers they associate with, seems, once again, to be true in your case. I don't believe death row inmates should be allowed to marry, in my opinion, visitors should be restricted to immediate family and clergy.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 14, 2010 20:52:11 GMT -6
I'm an anti, I've always leaned that direction. When I started looking on the internet to find more information about the death penalty, I came across the CCADP board. I was totally disgusted and knew that their point of view, was not mine, and I questioned my stance.
After looking further, I came across this board and lurked for a long time before I posted. I was immediately sympathetic to the MVS, but I still could not take that final step and agree with execution. Part of this is because I lost a child and I know the pain of that loss. I find myself unable to support infliction of that pain on another, and create more victims.
I also think that the death penalty is torture mentally. I don't believe it's right to judge a person and their life on the worst act of that life. People make terrible, terrible choices, drugs and alcohol. Broken families, abuse and poverty all contribute to crime. I'm not making excuses for what they did, punish them, lock them away, but to me, killing is wrong. I also don't like the fact that my government is in the business of executing its citizens.
But the final confirmation of my status has come from Lady. She represents the other side of the equation, and no matter what her brother did, she should not be punished and she is, every day, that to me is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 7, 2010 6:06:32 GMT -6
My heart broke for those beautiful children, especially the oldest son. Her parents, their devotion to Farrah, it's obvious they still miss her so very much.
Fratta is disgusting, his whole demeanor and attitude speaks volumes.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 6, 2010 20:08:10 GMT -6
I'll be watching Charlene.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Feb 2, 2010 18:44:23 GMT -6
He did her a huge favor, she should thank him and move on with her life. She probably won't though, she'll more than likely continue to let herself be used and manipulated.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 12, 2010 15:45:17 GMT -6
Hello, I am currently writing my dissertation on the death penalty and one of the section that I am currently on is reparation, which will include restorative justice and views from murder victims families. I have come across some sites with quote from families that are against the death penalty, but I am unable to find any families whose loved one has been murdered that support the death penalty. More specificall, I am looking for a case where the offender has already been executed. In this section, I am writing about "Can the death penalty be defended on the ground that nothing else brings closure to the agony of the victims surviving family?" I would like to know if an execution has brought closure to their family, and if so - how. I am not sure if there are an family members of victims on here, I would presume so, if so, would you be able to point me in the right direction? It needs to be something that has already been published on a website, or in a book, rather than you just submiting your opinions here, as because of ethics approval and time constraints, I will not be able to use those. Thanks so much for reading this and any help you can give me. Hi Dannii, I've sent a message to our administrator, letting her know you are seeking information regarding MVS. If it's appropriate, I'm feel certain, she will contact you.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 9, 2010 6:27:43 GMT -6
Well, you have to be checked out. It takes several months. Be patient. Wonderwoman is just kidding, it usually takes a few days. Charlene, our board administrator is the only person that can approve new members, I'm sure she will get to you soon.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 8, 2010 7:52:31 GMT -6
Remembering Courtney, and prayers for peace and comfort for her family and loved ones. Rest in peace, sweet angel
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 19:54:04 GMT -6
There's that old word "some" again. However, Wonderwoman, who does not need me to defend her, is not one of those antis. I suggest you do some more reading here, and my post stands, your response was vile. When you publicly post my remark was vile read other members post way past vile, post to them too. Otherwise it is totally unfair to me. I haven't noticed anyone else comparing another member to a murderer. I did comment to Honky that I don't believe all pros are scum, does that satisfy your fairness quotient?
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 19:44:22 GMT -6
Its honest w/o name calling my opinion as hers is too. How it comes across. Sometimes I think some anti's like a victim held captive begin to relate to the criminal to much and even end up using their language and put downs of others. Not vile a fact I see. I put my foot in my mouth we all do right. Thinking like or acting like the other side is not productive to the cause at all. There's that old word "some" again. However, Wonderwoman, who does not need me to defend her, is not one of those antis. I suggest you do some more reading here, and my post stands, your response was vile.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 19:32:34 GMT -6
I see. Now I'm not just a thug hugger, and someone who spits out vile degrading messages about victims, I am also evil. Keep besmirching me and I might just have to stomp my foot in exasperation. Watch where you put your foot..your mouth does appear to be the same killers use, some are just as vile to victims and family in court rooms, even their last words before being executed. Your post is vile.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 14:29:32 GMT -6
This is a debate board, where both sides of the argument are welcome. And Wonderwoman, is NOT, a radical anti, only someone who presents her arguments well. Why that annoys "some" pros so much, I have no idea? She does? Some defense attnys do great jobs without making others defensive, or stop paying attention to what they have to say. No name calling and answer politely to all they get my attention on this serious issue. Then that s me even in debates as this here. My opinon of course not some. I haven't seen Wonderwoman call anyone a name in this thread, I did, however, see you call her a thug hugger, guess I'm just confused, but then I'm an anti, we're all confused, right.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 14:14:41 GMT -6
Why do "some" pros automatically presume that anti means thug hugger. This is certainly not the case for Wonderwoman. Now, Kay, you're making an assumption that she was referring to thug hugging, when obviously, given the recent conversations about pros being scum, the 'scum' she was referring to were some pros here who I so often hug and protect cuz they're too stupid to know they knead hugs. Apologize to her at once!! Now, Dear, isn't it rather "presumptuous of you to "presume" that I misunderstood the post Apparently it's time to put your broom away, and go back to being a "nice" little anti, and quit creating so much ruckus ;D
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 14:09:12 GMT -6
Why do "some" pros automatically presume that anti means thug hugger. This is certainly not the case for Wonderwoman. For me personally, the same "lines" extreme anti's are showing up on here. The same smart attitute. The spin games. The way they talk to others to get their points across. Provoke personal attacks. I can get that on a groupie site well known of. They are without a doubt hugging and protecting " "all" on DR too no exceptions. Don't dare. Will not accept any medium to the laws of our constitution. Closed minded totally. This is a debate board, where both sides of the argument are welcome. And Wonderwoman, is NOT, a radical anti, only someone who presents her arguments well. Why that annoys "some" pros so much, I have no idea?
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Jan 5, 2010 12:36:30 GMT -6
I've spoken to enough of the some to speak freely about those some. And, naturally, if the some I'm referring to has a problem with me speaking on their behalf, I'm prepared to hear that some out in an effort to be fair. On the other hand, if someone thinks the some I am referring to is them and they disagree, then obviously that's not the some I was talking about. See? You're brillant at spin. Sounds like many of your posting's to hug and protect the real scum. Why do "some" pros automatically presume that anti means thug hugger. This is certainly not the case for Wonderwoman.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 29, 2009 10:20:00 GMT -6
Thank you, Deputy Mundall, for your service, your sacrifice is acknowledged and appreciated. Prayers for comfort for your loved ones, in this time of loss.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 13:55:33 GMT -6
That's passive auto-geriatricide, stupid. Everybody knows that. too funny
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 13:34:38 GMT -6
We do not kill for killing WW we execute. Those are different. For one thing, "execute" begins with an e, not a k, and it's very dishonest of you (and convenient) to ignore that. After execution, they are not dead. They are executed. Again, d versus e. I would think this would be obvious to a child. Now what is the point of this thread? hey, look. honky is trying to be sarcastically funny. how cute is that hey, honky tell me again. what is it when they die of old age in a cage? is that just "passing" or what? I know, I know, it's called death by natural causes What did I win?
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 12:34:15 GMT -6
Still not the issue of the thread, but I'll play. Murder is the premeditated homicide of an unwilling participant. Execution is the premeditated homicide of an unwilling participant. Seems like the difference IS the reasons (or excuses). No reason to join in to play, I replied to Kay. Since this is an open debate forum, anyone is free to respond to another person's posts, Whitediamonds.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 12:33:07 GMT -6
I hope not, DP is killing for obviously different reasons though. Still not the issue of the thread, but I'll play. Murder is the premeditated homicide of an unwilling participant. Execution is the premeditated homicide of an unwilling participant. Seems like the difference IS the reasons (or excuses). Sorry, sweetie, didn't mean to take the thread off topic. I'm still wondering what Mike meant when he said we didn't kill people who killed.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 11:49:18 GMT -6
DP? How about "Homicide By Association" for a term? HBA. Homicide is on the death cerificate no, for those who are executed? Are we really arguing that the death penalty is not killing, for real
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 10:00:02 GMT -6
If we don't "kill" people who "kill", then why is it called the death penalty? Please define execution. Uhm (cough) Kay, you gotta read the whole thread. ;D (minus the reams of stuff that Agave posted.) But Cons, Dear, I did read the entire thread. Could you explain your interpretation, then please?
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 23, 2009 5:28:30 GMT -6
Just read her original post. She isn't making the point you think she is making. Sorry fella. But here's an easy way to settle it. Wonderwoman? Are you saying that murder and execution are morally equivalent, like mike thinks you are? Or are you saying that we seem to adopt contradictory attitudes towards whether torture is worse than killing, as I think you are. Cause I think mike's got it all wrong and is not too bright, but he thinks *I* got it wrong and *I'm* not too bright. I'm afraid it might all end in tears. Can you help? Typical. WW misdefines words and you misstate arguments. You're a match! Let's see, the b.s. goes something like this: "We kill people who kill, so why don't we torture people who torture? That's contradictory!!!!11!1!" [And it goes even further downhill from there. ] Stating that we kill people who kill is a deliberate distortion/lie in order to create a false comparison with the punishment of torture. We don't kill people who kill and we don't torture people who torture. No contradiction. p.s.: I know you're not too bright, you've got it wrong, and you're dishonest to boot. If we don't "kill" people who "kill", then why is it called the death penalty? Please define execution.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 15, 2009 12:32:34 GMT -6
If, and it's a big if, someone truly believed that such a disgusting act, was simply a matter of opinion, then how could that person, support the death penalty for murder, or any penalty for that matter?
Wasn't the murder acting on his own moral values, which in this case, would be a matter of opinion?
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 14, 2009 17:30:25 GMT -6
This question is pretty provocative, belsogno, and I think you don't realize that. You imply (probably not even intentionally): "MVS leave! We want to debate the DP objectively!". Where are they supposed to go in your opinion? They are here and to me they enrich the debate. Since I've been here I think I can understand their point much better, not that I could ever really understand their grief in all its horror. Of course you have to be more careful with what you say since it could be missunderstood and could hurt feelings but the issue simply is that sensitive. Maybe you're even right and an objective debate isn't possible here but then you might want to consult a different board for this kind of discussion. Still I wouldn't delete my account here if I were you. This is the right place to get an insight in why some people are Pro and I can understand and respect their opinion even though I disagree wholeheartedly. I have to disagree here. I don't mean to be provocative I just want other people to accept my position, if they can't like it. I don't want them to leave the board, I just would like them to understand that if they are emotional, I am not, I can't be, because I have no experience like they had. You suggest I should be more careful, but what does it mean? I believe that DP is a premeditated homicide, and that murderers deserve something better than get killed by the collectivity. This is my mind. And trust me I believe strongly that. How could I be carefull? How could I say that to a mum who lost his son and everything she wants is to see the murderer's death? How can I? If you have an idea, a tip, pls tell me, becouse I honestly have none. While some folks here dance together when somebody is toast in their NEXT topics, I can't even address hypocrisy to them, becouse If do, I become a moron. Is this a fair discussion? This is a debate? Spare me. When I start to get insulted I usually stop arguing. God bless the freedom. Perhaps you are right and a serious debate here is impossible, I will have to look for it somewhere else. But let me attend only Off Topic sections, there are very nice people here and I have often a good time Do you have any idea of the courage it takes to come to a board and discuss the murder of your family member? Stop and think about it. Have you ever had anything in your life, so deeply effect you, that it changed your entire outlook? Take just a minute, Belsogno, go back and read what you wrote, and understand why you got so many angry responses, and why that anger is justified.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 13, 2009 15:01:24 GMT -6
Nice distraction but the brutal attack of a 6 yr old has absolutely nothing to do with the state's ability to lawfully execute a convicted murderer - unless you want to argue the guy who murdered the 6 year old belongs strapped to the gurney. Go back and read the thread, Joseph is the one who took the thread off topic. He equated the brutal murder of a six year old to abortion.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 11, 2009 12:55:09 GMT -6
I don't believe that acts of war are murder, and from Honky's post regarding my Marine son, I don't think he does either. then he cannot say all deliberate , premeditated acts of homicide by the government are wrong. Very good point, I guess, we will have to wait with baited breath, for his return and explanation.
|
|
|
Post by Kay on Dec 11, 2009 12:52:41 GMT -6
I would say Kay is a "good anti", she does not agree with the death penalty unlike me but she does not see the prisoners through rose tinted glasses either, she is for severe punishment just not death. I'd say Kay is a great poster, but very far (imho) to be an anti. She specified that she opposes death penalty as long as LWOP is avaiable. If Life imprisonement would not be an option she would support death penalty. Kay is a pro to my eyes (and perhaps it would be better) I disagree with your interpretation of my stance Belsogno, but I am curious about your last statement. Why do you think it would be better if I were a pro?
|
|