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Post by fuglyville on Oct 10, 2015 13:23:35 GMT -6
I can speak from experience that many inmates sentenced death are active killers, Alfredo Prieto had escaped once, stabbed another prisoner, and was caught plotting the movements of a young gaurd for a possible assault. That's fact, that's one recent example. Considering ADP advocates were petitioning the Supreme Court to allow him access to the general population, claiming isolation was torture, you can bet there would have been more victims. In addition, the innocence project has gotten many off death row on technicalities, to date, and this was last year, the count was over a dozen murdered again when released. I know this, Alfredo Prieto will never again call my mother and brag about raping and killing her daughter, he will never again taunt the sanguist family with gang graffiti, and he will never stab another prisoner. That's just plain reality and fact. Solid proof the death penalty stops future suffering, and brings closure and justice to both society and grieving families. And, those let out of DR on technicalities, were not exonerated of the crime. Then over a dozen murdered when released !!! *citation needed* In other words: Do you have a source for your statement that released murderers kill again?
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 10, 2015 15:52:06 GMT -6
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 10, 2015 15:59:13 GMT -6
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 10, 2015 16:04:28 GMT -6
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 10, 2015 16:19:11 GMT -6
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Post by bernard on Oct 10, 2015 21:56:24 GMT -6
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Perhaps it would be best if you just provided the link. Like you told rocky in a post ...have you tried looking it up on google for the info? Since I don't know what you are saying, I don't know what to look for.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 10, 2015 22:12:50 GMT -6
Come on Benard, let's be honest here. It's one thing to disagree on personal belief, but white diamond just gave you links to back up the fact that those exonerated, not all but many, murdered again. That's not opinion, it's fact. You may be disappointed it weakened your ever weakening position, but it's factual. Don't take it personally, look at the facts, they point you in a direction- the DP works, and it's the right thing to do.
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Post by bernard on Oct 10, 2015 22:17:07 GMT -6
Some remarkable confusion here. On a thread on why the DP is conducted in secret, you somehow get off topic. You go on to claim that a "dozen" people were freed from DR on "technicalities", who went on to kill again. When asked for a link, you provide links to people who were freed, not on technicalities, but after serving their sentence. In England. Where there is no death row.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 10, 2015 22:25:23 GMT -6
My apologies Benard, in my haste to prove the obvious I linked various posts. I'm going to dig out specific cases, specific numbers just for you, your very own research group- totally for free! But before I do I want you to have the balls, something Americans have naturally, to state, in writing that those granted freedom under the innocence project or other like minded orgs did not murder again. Say it in writing, that's your belief. Take a direct stand, state your belief that released death row prisoners did not murder again. No hidden meaning here, state it dude.
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Post by bernard on Oct 10, 2015 22:26:06 GMT -6
removed
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Post by bernard on Oct 10, 2015 22:28:06 GMT -6
My apologies Benard, in my haste to prove the obvious I linked various posts. I'm going to dig out specific cases, specific numbers just for you, your very own research group- totally for free! But before I do I want you to have the balls, something Americans have naturally, to state, in writing that those granted freedom under the innocence project or other like minded orgs did not murder again. Say it in writing, that's your belief. Take a direct stand, state your belief that released death row prisoners did not murder again. No hidden meaning here, state it dude. That's not my belief. I have no belief one way or the other. I simply don't know the facts, and am asking you to tell me where you found this info. I have looked for it on google, but have had no luck. Maybe that is because my research skills are poor.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 10, 2015 22:33:13 GMT -6
My apologies Benard, in my haste to prove the obvious I linked various posts. I'm going to dig out specific cases, specific numbers just for you, your very own research group- totally for free! But before I do I want you to have the balls, something Americans have naturally, to state, in writing that those granted freedom under the innocence project or other like minded orgs did not murder again. Say it in writing, that's your belief. Take a direct stand, state your belief that released death row prisoners did not murder again. No hidden meaning here, state it dude. That's not my belief. I have no belief one way or the other. I simply don't know the facts, and am asking you to tell me where you found this info. I have looked for it on google, but have had no luck. Maybe that is because my research skills are poor.Â
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 10, 2015 22:43:37 GMT -6
Oh no no no Benard. Of course you have beliefs, that's not accurate or true. You would not want to ban the DP if you knew they would murder again, or would you. You have stated over and over again that the DP is wrong, your well versed on various issues. So are you saying you are unaware released death row and even life sentenced murderers killed again? I don't believe that for a second. If so, your totally f up to oppose the DP, your position is based on ignorance. I'm not here to feed you info, you came to us to enlighten us, you mystic you. So grab em, Google the names from the innocence project and cross reference on nexis. Come on Benard, your an expert, your going to enlighten me. Do murderers on DR released murder again? "Enlighten me".
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 10, 2015 23:03:28 GMT -6
Let me take it a step further. Keep us occupied answering you silly BS vice organizing. So take a stand Bernard, reach and grab, no no there not under the desk, no not under the carpet, just answer the question. You've stayed the DP is wrong, so do DP prisoners released murder again. Yes or No?
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Post by bernard on Oct 11, 2015 0:35:56 GMT -6
Oh no no no Benard. Of course you have beliefs, that's not accurate or true. You would not want to ban the DP if you knew they would murder again, or would you. You have stated over and over again that the DP is wrong, your well versed on various issues. So are you saying you are unaware released death row and even life sentenced murderers killed again? I don't believe that for a second. If so, your totally f up to oppose the DP, your position is based on ignorance. I'm not here to feed you info, you came to us to enlighten us, you mystic you. So grab em, Google the names from the innocence project and cross reference on nexis. Come on Benard, your an expert, your going to enlighten me. Do murderers on DR released murder again? "Enlighten me". You were simply asked to provide a link to back up your claim. If you are unwilling to do so, just say so.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 11, 2015 8:15:44 GMT -6
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 11, 2015 9:20:16 GMT -6
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 11, 2015 9:24:05 GMT -6
Note" Bernard this is the same silly games you played under A.K.A Honky. Trying to beat people to death claiming it is a debate.
Your the only member I ever placed on ignore, lifted it, now it is back on.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 11, 2015 10:46:59 GMT -6
. When asked for a link, you provide links to people who were freed, not on technicalities, but after serving their sentence. In England. Where there is no death row. Yes, that link shows those freed murdered again, it was a link to the UK. I provided links to the US where due to paroled, technicalities, even exonerated, escapes, freed, etc, go on to murder yet again. I provided a fair balance with my links, US, UK. Lets not forget that the murders continue on by those already in prison too. Do you really need another or more links to prove that is factual? When one is already inside for murder* what ever his sentence, they only add more yrs to their time"" is justice? Come on " lets get real if it only brings the sentence to 150 yrs now, for murder again? Insane logic !!! If we keep them alone away from the general population inside, anit's will scream that is cruel & unusual treatment too? Insane logic yet again................
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Post by bernard on Oct 11, 2015 13:36:59 GMT -6
Are you saying that we should imprison/kill people based upon discredited evidence because they might be guilty?
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Post by bernard on Oct 11, 2015 13:42:03 GMT -6
. When asked for a link, you provide links to people who were freed, not on technicalities, but after serving their sentence. In England. Where there is no death row. Yes, that link shows those freed murdered again, it was a link to the UK. I provided links to the US where due to paroled, technicalities, even exonerated, escapes, freed, etc, go on to murder yet again. I provided a fair balance with my links, US, UK. Lets not forget that the murders continue on by those already in prison too. Do you really need another or more links to prove that is factual? When one is already inside for murder* what ever his sentence, they only add more yrs to their time"" is justice? Come on " lets get real if it only brings the sentence to 150 yrs now, for murder again? Insane logic !!! If we keep them alone away from the general population inside, anit's will scream that is cruel & unusual treatment too? Insane logic yet again................ You were asked to provide a link backing up the claim, made by rocky and repeated by you, that the innocence project had caused the release of 12 people from death row who went on to commit murder. Since then, you have provided a baffling array of links from all around the world on people who were released a the end of their sentence, or released on appeal. But not the link you were asked to provide. Rocky, meanwhile, is aggressively trying to take the conversation elsewhere. I'd prefer it if you either backed up your claim, if you can, or say that you can't, if you can't. That's the way to have an honest discussion.
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Post by fuglyville on Oct 12, 2015 6:13:49 GMT -6
Yes, that link shows those freed murdered again, it was a link to the UK. I provided links to the US where due to paroled, technicalities, even exonerated, escapes, freed, etc, go on to murder yet again. I provided a fair balance with my links, US, UK. Lets not forget that the murders continue on by those already in prison too. Do you really need another or more links to prove that is factual? When one is already inside for murder* what ever his sentence, they only add more yrs to their time"" is justice? Come on " lets get real if it only brings the sentence to 150 yrs now, for murder again? Insane logic !!! If we keep them alone away from the general population inside, anit's will scream that is cruel & unusual treatment too? Insane logic yet again................ You were asked to provide a link backing up the claim, made by rocky and repeated by you, that the innocence project had caused the release of 12 people from death row who went on to commit murder. Since then, you have provided a baffling array of links from all around the world on people who were released a the end of their sentence, or released on appeal. But not the link you were asked to provide. Rocky, meanwhile, is aggressively trying to take the conversation elsewhere. I'd prefer it if you either backed up your claim, if you can, or say that you can't, if you can't. That's the way to have an honest discussion. ^ What he said - the burden of evidence, lies on the one who makes a statement. And when old cripples are executed - which happens, every now and then - I can't really see how they could possibly kill again.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 11:02:31 GMT -6
You were asked to provide a link backing up the claim, made by rocky and repeated by you, that the innocence project had caused the release of 12 people from death row who went on to commit murder. Since then, you have provided a baffling array of links from all around the world on people who were released a the end of their sentence, or released on appeal. But not the link you were asked to provide. Rocky, meanwhile, is aggressively trying to take the conversation elsewhere. I'd prefer it if you either backed up your claim, if you can, or say that you can't, if you can't. That's the way to have an honest discussion. ^ What he said - the burden of evidence, lies on the one who makes a statement. And when old cripples are executed - which happens, every now and then - I can't really see how they could possibly kill again. Are you kidding me??? Fugly. you put up crap all the time that doesn't have anything to back it up. I would go find it but for the people that have been here for awhile they know it, so I don't need to prove that you are a manipulative liar. What old cripples??? The ones that ate too much and then said they are too fat to be executed. The ones that have gotten old due to the stays that they have collected from actions by people such as yourself? EXACTLY.. Create the problem and then bytch and complain and blame others. The punishment is not for what they could do but for the murder/s they have already been convicted. DUH!!! FFS, we are not allowed to punish for crimes they haven't done. No I am not going to provide a link.. You want to know the truth, then you go out and search for it. I am not here to babysit a scumpal euroweenie.
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Post by bernard on Oct 12, 2015 15:56:17 GMT -6
The punishment is not for what they could do but for the murder/s they have already been convicted. DUH!!! FFS, we are not allowed to punish for crimes they haven't done. In fact, we can't punish for crimes we haven't proved. Yet Rocky and Whitediamonds are objecting to people being released from DR after having their convictions undermined or overturned. The people released for these reasons are, however, legally not guilty. So I don't know how we are supposed to do anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 16:40:04 GMT -6
The punishment is not for what they could do but for the murder/s they have already been convicted. DUH!!! FFS, we are not allowed to punish for crimes they haven't done. In fact, we can't punish for crimes we haven't proved. Yet Rocky and Whitediamonds are objecting to people being released from DR after having their convictions undermined or overturned. The people released for these reasons are, however, legally not guilty. So I don't know how we are supposed to do anything else. WTH, are you talking about?? I quoted fugly about the old and crippled being executed even though the probability of them murdering again was probably pretty much nil. I said nothing about prisoners getting out because of technicality etc etc. I guess we should consider that the old, fat, decrepit, diseased murderers aren't a threat. Well, why are they old, decrepit, fat and diseased? They got this way because they were given whatever they wanted and demanded after years of appeals kept them from their punishment. This is just manipulation by many corrupt people. That is when I said they are being executed for their crime and not crimes they might commit. Stop trying to twist and turn everything. I remember when you were matthew and would do this all the time.
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Post by bernard on Oct 13, 2015 15:41:42 GMT -6
In fact, we can't punish for crimes we haven't proved. Yet Rocky and Whitediamonds are objecting to people being released from DR after having their convictions undermined or overturned. The people released for these reasons are, however, legally not guilty. So I don't know how we are supposed to do anything else. WTH, are you talking about?? I quoted fugly about the old and crippled being executed even though the probability of them murdering again was probably pretty much nil. I said nothing about prisoners getting out because of technicality etc etc. I never said you did. I was contrasting your balanced comments with the silly remarks made by Rocky and Whitediamonds, You have to twist and turn a thing in order to see it from every angle.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 14, 2015 19:34:32 GMT -6
Now now Benard, please be patient. I will provide the link/info, but it is true. I'm on the road, but I promise, my pleasure. I will show it on a blog I'm starting, targeting inaccurate press and defense attorney games- which are plenty.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 14, 2015 21:21:21 GMT -6
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Post by bernard on Oct 15, 2015 0:54:58 GMT -6
I am not sure what this "warm up" is supposed to prove. This is a case of a man released after serving a 30 year sentence, not someone released from DR by the innocence project. You said that 12 people were freed from DR by the innocence project, who then went on to kill again. I have two questions about this, neither of which you have attempted to answer. The first is, could you please provide a link? The second question is, what do you propose that we do with a person on DR when the case against them is proven to be full of holes? Execute them anyway?
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Post by bernard on Oct 15, 2015 1:08:14 GMT -6
starting with the founder of the project getting sued for framing a person to get his murderer freedom! I'm surprised that you're so pleased about that, especially since the man bringing suit---Alstory Simon---might well have been executed by now were it not for the moratorium on the DP. So thanks for providing us with another reason for abolishing the DP! However, apart from the fact that it helps the anti's case it looks irrelevant to yours. As far as I know, the man released by the innocence project in that case---Anthony Porter---hasn't killed anyone since being released from jail. So where are these 12 cases?
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