opinions ?

[Dw]

Hi i am a 17 year old girl from the Uk. I am currently doing a reasearch project on the death penalty at school and have found this site valuable information. I am pro death penalty and believe the death penalty should be reinstated in the uk. Our justice system is a joke ... life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years how is this justice? I have lots of opinions on why i believe the death penalty is the best option yet need some opinions from anti death penalty people .... so if u disagree with the death penalty why ? and what do u find suitable instead ?

[josephdphillips]

Dw said:

Hi i am a 17 year old girl from the Uk. I am currently doing a reasearch project on the death penalty at school and have found this site valuable information. I am pro death penalty and believe the death penalty should be reinstated in the uk. Our justice system is a joke ... life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years how is this justice? I have lots of opinions on why i believe the death penalty is the best option yet need some opinions from anti death penalty people .... so if u disagree with the death penalty why ? and what do u find suitable instead ?

This should be good.

Nice of you to join us, young lady. Good luck with your project.

[dennis25]

Dw said:

Hi i am a 17 year old girl from the Uk. I am currently doing a reasearch project on the death penalty at school and have found this site valuable information. I am pro death penalty and believe the death penalty should be reinstated in the uk. Our justice system is a joke ... life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years how is this justice? I have lots of opinions on why i believe the death penalty is the best option yet need some opinions from anti death penalty people .... so if u disagree with the death penalty why ? and what do u find suitable instead ?

i'm glad that you say that life in prison means about 20 years in the UK as I've been attacked for also using the 20 year figure in my posts in the thread of prodp.proboards47.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1141219880

20 years for a one time murder + some other condition is what I stand for. I respect that you're pro, but you're just 17 and need much to learn yet. See, the link and you'l understand why i'm against the DP, another reason why i'm against is because racists can ubuse the DP system.

[Legal Eagle Reply]

Murderer admits raping young boy

A man released from a life sentence for murder less than a year ago has pleaded guilty to raping a young boy last week.
Stephen Ayre, 44, from Shipley, abducted the 10-year-old. He now faces a further life sentence.

Ayre was originally jailed after the body of Irene Hudson was found near Shipley railway station in 1984.

He admitted two rapes, abduction and a sexual offence when he appeared at Bradford Crown Court by a video link and will be sentenced in April.

Ayre was released from prison on licence last April after serving 20 years for murdering Ms Hudson, who died from head injuries.

The charges involving the boy followed an incident in the Saltaire area a week last Sunday.

Judge Linda Sutcliffe said a new life sentence may follow when the case is heard again in April.

[anti]

life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years

The maximum punishment in the UK is a "whole life tariff" = imprisonment until natural death.

[dw]

anti said:

life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years

The maximum punishment in the UK is a "whole life tariff" = imprisonment until natural death.

sorry maybe i wrote that wrong ... life imprisonment may be the maximum punishment but its not consistently used and thats my problem with the system. Anyway why waste money keeping a murderer in jail for the rest of his life while we let them study exercise and socialize.

[dw]

Legal said:

He now faces a further life sentence.

2 life sentences in one life? im sure im not the only one that can see something is obviously wrong here

[guest]

I am very anti DP. Even if u are for the death penalty however, u have to realize that the system in effect right now is discriminatory, very costly (more than life imprisonment) and it kills innocent people. These are facts. The system has to be considered ineffective if it is in fact killing innocent people...i don't know how you can disagree with that. The fact is that it is probably never going to be a perfect system, especially not right now. The system does not deter crime and it is simply implying that the murderers don't have the right to kill but that the federal government does. I respect your opinion but before you go far with it i advise you to look at the facts...they may surprise you.

[Deleted]

The death penalty is not the real problem it is the court room where the problems lay. and the tactis used to gain a conviction. No one likes to see any one put to death but if it is the law of the land then it must be respected how ever, in administering it the judicial process must be over hauled then the possibility for innocent convictions will be reduced,, the lengthy appeals process will be reduced. the system should also base each murder on the prevailing circumstances. each murder should be rated in relation to the application of the death penalty so the penalty should be applied equally and not as it is now, ad hock. not all murder circumstances are the same. Prosecutors and defence attournies should be held accountible for the dealings in courts and penalties applied to those acting outside a fair and just manner.

[josephdphillips]

zambo said:

the system should also base each murder on the prevailing circumstances. each murder should be rated in relation to the application of the death penalty so the penalty should be applied equally and not as it is now, ad hock (sic). not all murder circumstances are the same.

You're talking about of both sides of your mouth here, Zamboni. From what is stated above, you're saying all murders are different, but all murderers should be punished the same. You can't have it both ways.

[jennaleigh27]

guest said:

I am very anti DP. Even if u are for the death penalty however, u have to realize that the system in effect right now is discriminatory, very costly (more than life imprisonment) and it kills innocent people. These are facts. The system has to be considered ineffective if it is in fact killing innocent people...i don't know how you can disagree with that. The fact is that it is probably never going to be a perfect system, especially not right now. The system does not deter crime and it is simply implying that the murderers don't have the right to kill but that the federal government does. I respect your opinion but before you go far with it i advise you to look at the facts...they may surprise you.

I'm an anti as well, but there has been no dna evidence to suggest any innocent person has been executed since the DP was reinstated. That's not to say that there aren't innocent men on DR right now because I believe there are a slim few. With the advances of DNA and proper defense counsel, if someone is in fact innocent, it is very likely that they will be exonerated. Discriminitory, yes, but that will always be. To a certain degree anyway. We're human, therefore we can't save the world. Discrimination and corruption is two things that will surely always remain in the justice system. As an anti, let's focus on the bigger picture.

[ben]

jennaleigh27 said:

guest said:

I am very anti DP. Even if u are for the death penalty however, u have to realize that the system in effect right now is discriminatory, very costly (more than life imprisonment) and it kills innocent people. These are facts. The system has to be considered ineffective if it is in fact killing innocent people...i don't know how you can disagree with that. The fact is that it is probably never going to be a perfect system, especially not right now. The system does not deter crime and it is simply implying that the murderers don't have the right to kill but that the federal government does. I respect your opinion but before you go far with it i advise you to look at the facts...they may surprise you.

I'm an anti as well, but there has been no dna evidence to suggest any innocent person has been executed since the DP was reinstated. That's not to say that there aren't innocent men on DR right now because I believe there are a slim few. With the advances of DNA and proper defense counsel, if someone is in fact innocent, it is very likely that they will be exonerated. Discriminitory, yes, but that will always be. To a certain degree anyway. We're human, therefore we can't save the world. Discrimination and corruption is two things that will surely always remain in the justice system. As an anti, let's focus on the bigger picture.

I mean you.

[jennaleigh]

guest said:

I am very anti DP. Even if u are for the death penalty however, u have to realize that the system in effect right now is discriminatory, very costly (more than life imprisonment) and it kills innocent people. These are facts. The system has to be considered ineffective if it is in fact killing innocent people...i don't know how you can disagree with that. The fact is that it is probably never going to be a perfect system, especially not right now. The system does not deter crime and it is simply implying that the murderers don't have the right to kill but that the federal government does. I respect your opinion but before you go far with it i advise you to look at the facts...they may surprise you.

I'm an anti but strongly for LWOP. Reading your post you said that the system is implying that murderers don't have the right to kill but that the government does, so I have a question; Are you also saying that the government is teaching that by imprisonment that we're teaching society that it's ok to hold someone against their will? I would hope not, but in essence by comparing of such imposition that's what you're saying.

[Sandoval]

But, the problem with that, is that they only give it to serial killers and high profile murderers.

anti said:

life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years

The maximum punishment in the UK is a "whole life tariff" = imprisonment until natural death.

[onetwobomb]

dennis, I have a book called the Encyclopedia of Serial killers, and there are several examples of murderers who killed once, were released after about 20 years and killed again.

[dennis25]

onetwobomb said:

dennis, I have a book called the Encyclopedia of Serial killers, and there are several examples of murderers who killed once, were released after about 20 years and killed again.

Were they released by completing my A-D ?

[Wickedlyamoral]

guest said:

I am very anti DP. Even if u are for the death penalty however, u have to realize that the system in effect right now is discriminatory, very costly (more than life imprisonment) and it kills innocent people. These are facts. The system has to be considered ineffective if it is in fact killing innocent people...i don't know how you can disagree with that. The fact is that it is probably never going to be a perfect system, especially not right now. The system does not deter crime and it is simply implying that the murderers don't have the right to kill but that the federal government does. I respect your opinion but before you go far with it i advise you to look at the facts...they may surprise you.

Name the innocents you state have been executed. And make it recent. Perhaps it is you who should try reading facts.

[Wickedlyamoral]

dennis25 said:

onetwobomb said:

dennis, I have a book called the Encyclopedia of Serial killers, and there are several examples of murderers who killed once, were released after about 20 years and killed again.

Were they released by completing my A-D ?

Your so called A-D only exist in your mind. It is not a practical sequence for being released.

[dennis25]

wickedlyamoral said:

dennis25 said:

Were they released by completing my A-D ?

Your so called A-D only exist in your mind. It is not a practical sequence for being released.

Sorry, I made an error, it's my A-D.
If you pass that, you're 99,9% sure that the killer won't kill again

[SkyLoom]

... it's my A-D.
If you pass that, you're 99,9% sure that the killer won't kill again

Interesting that people can't deal with a 99.9% certainty that someone won't kill again, but they seem to be able to deal quite well with a 99.9% certainty that they aren't killing someone who is actually innocent.

life in prison means a maximum of about twenty years how is this justice?

Very early on in the Capital Jury Project, researchers found that American jurors do not believe that a sentence of life in prison actually means life in prison. Their general estimate is that a life sentence means roughly 7-10 years.

Because of that, there exists a certain disproportionality. For instance, in a case involving a quadruple murder in which jurors estimate the defendant will serve 10 years per killing, they would likely agree to a 40-year sentence. If that same defendant had killed one person, they would likely recommend death because they would assume that he or she would serve a relatively light sentence of 10 years.

You would know better than I what a twenty-five year sentence means in England. In the U.S., a twenty-five year sentence may actually mean that a prisoner would be eligible for parole in fifteen years or so, depending on the laws of the individual states.

Now that many states in the U.S. have good LWOP laws on the books (Massachusetts law is an excellent example of a LWOP law that "means what it says"), I believe there will be fewer death sentences handed down.

Still, in the U.S. a LWOP sentence is not necessarily reserved for someone who has committed multiple murders.

Personally, I have no problem with LWOP, but only when it is warranted. I believe it is warranted in cases of multiple and/or serial murders. When an individual has committed one murder, I believe a sentence of fifteen or twenty years is appropriate (with increments of five years for each additional murder), with a possibility (not a guarantee) of parole after that time. I also strongly favor solid education and job training programs while a prisoner is incarcerated so he has some hope of returning to society successfully. And I favor careful supervision and support for parolees as they make that transition back to complete freedom.

[dennis25]

Interesting that people can't deal with a 99.9% certainty that someone won't kill again, but they seem to be able to deal quite well with a 99.9% certainty that they aren't killing someone who is actually innocent.

exectly, Sky. I believe my system is 99,9% error proof, I don't have any evidence for it but I think so. And I can live with it when of the released murderers, 99,9% don't commit a crime again, I'll accept that 0,1 % as a margin of error. It's just the way it's. Just gave you another +

[Snowy]

skyloom said:

... it's my A-D.
If you pass that, you're 99,9% sure that the killer won't kill again

The dp is 100% sure that a murder won't murder again. I think that's more full proof than yours.

[Wickedlyamoral]

skyloom said:

Interesting that people can't deal with a 99.9% certainty that someone won't kill again, but they seem to be able to deal quite well with a 99.9% certainty that they aren't killing someone who is actually innocent.

No psychologist or psychiatrist can be 99.9% accurate on that. I don't care what instruments they use. And I have never referred to any percentage of those not being guilty being executed. Number of innocents in prison is far lower than those who are guilty.

[arizonaDP]

dennis25 said:

Interesting that people can't deal with a 99.9% certainty that someone won't kill again, but they seem to be able to deal quite well with a 99.9% certainty that they aren't killing someone who is actually innocent.

exectly, Sky. I believe my system is 99,9% error proof, I don't have any evidence for it but I think so. And I can live with it when of the released murderers, 99,9% don't commit a crime again, I'll accept that 0,1 % as a margin of error. It's just the way it's. Just gave you another +

So you just have a hunch that u r right.... i cant buy that and i cant use that in a debate if i wanted to to defend the abolition of dp...

[GlennF]

dennis25 said:

Interesting that people can't deal with a 99.9% certainty that someone won't kill again, but they seem to be able to deal quite well with a 99.9% certainty that they aren't killing someone who is actually innocent.

exectly, Sky. I believe my system is 99,9% error proof, I don't have any evidence for it but I think so. And I can live with it when of the released murderers, 99,9% don't commit a crime again, I'll accept that 0,1 % as a margin of error. It's just the way it's. Just gave you another +

So in other words you advocate the killing of innocent people. So when you release 1000 murderers you can live with one of them killing a further innocent person, after all you do accept the 0.1% margin of error!
You can now get down from your pedestal as your claim that you respect and treasure life has just crumbled!

[dennis25]

Snowy said:

skyloom said:

... it's my A-D.
If you pass that, you're 99,9% sure that the killer won't kill again

The dp is 100% sure that a murder won't murder again. I think that's more full proof than yours.

true, but the DP doesn't show any compassion

[dennis25]

arizonaDP said:

dennis25 said:

exectly, Sky. I believe my system is 99,9% error proof, I don't have any evidence for it but I think so. And I can live with it when of the released murderers, 99,9% don't commit a crime again, I'll accept that 0,1 % as a margin of error. It's just the way it's. Just gave you another +

So you just have a hunch that u r right.... i cant buy that and i cant use that in a debate if i wanted to to defend the abolition of dp...

in the movie glimmerman starring Steven Seagal, he had to do a lie detector test, and he passed. the girl that managed the tests said it can be fooled, but almost impossible to fool a lie detector and she had never seen anyone cheating a lie detector.

[dennis25]

glennf said:

dennis25 said:

exectly, Sky. I believe my system is 99,9% error proof, I don't have any evidence for it but I think so. And I can live with it when of the released murderers, 99,9% don't commit a crime again, I'll accept that 0,1 % as a margin of error. It's just the way it's. Just gave you another +

So in other words you advocate the killing of innocent people. So when you release 1000 murderers you can live with one of them killing a further innocent person, after all you do accept the 0.1% margin of error!
You can now get down from your pedestal as your claim that you respect and treasure life has just crumbled!

more people die in car accidents than that get killed by released murderers

[Deleted]

Congratulations you win stupid post of the day award.

dennis25 said:

glennf said:

So in other words you advocate the killing of innocent people. So when you release 1000 murderers you can live with one of them killing a further innocent person, after all you do accept the 0.1% margin of error!
You can now get down from your pedestal as your claim that you respect and treasure life has just crumbled!

more people die in car accidents than that get killed by released murderers

[josephdphillips]

doc said:

Congratulations you win stupid post of the day award.

dennis25 said:

more people die in car accidents than that get killed by released murderers

LOL! That made me bust out, Doc. Thanks.

Maybe you mods can actually have that as a contest here.