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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 9, 2013 12:04:40 GMT -6
Your comment makes no sense. If gun ownership is not a right, then people cannot own guns. If you don't have the legal right to do something, then you cannot do it. That's what our Constitution and Bill of Rights is all about. You don't have the right to own a car, it's a privilege that you get a liscenced to do so after demonstrating competency, albeit most drivers are not. You could look at firearms the same way. You should only have them after thorough checks and psych evaluations, and you prove you understand how to safely use and store them. There are a lot of people in possession of them who should not be IMO. for the most part, you are correct. however, we have a perfect example right now of it not working as you envision it. the ex lapd boy passed the psych eval required in order to be a cop. thus far, he has murdered three people.
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Post by Californian on Feb 9, 2013 12:05:26 GMT -6
You don't have the right to own a car, it's a privilege that you get a liscenced to do so after demonstrating competency, albeit most drivers are not. You're confusing a driver's license with ownership of personal property. Having a driver's license is not a requirement for owning an automobile. A driver's license is a privilege; ownership of personal property is a right.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 20:11:07 GMT -6
Which God is that? In Islam, women are mere chattel and have no rights. Many people think the same about Christianity. For every stranger assault I could talk about many more domestics that are settled with a firearm because they are there you lose again. as far as domestic assaults go, there are very few homes that do not have steak knives, which are just as deadly, and in EVERY instance where a gun is used, had the gun not been there, the knife would have been. the REALITY is that there is only ONE god, and that is the god of the bible. it doesn't matter whether or not some idiot chooses to follow the pedophile who hallucinated islam, or follow buddha, or anything else. Actually I win. Your claim that "steak knives are as deadly as firearms" is rubbish, as demonstrated by the USA's very high rate of homicide in comparison to the rest of the world. Everyone knows that it is more efficient to kill someone with a gun then with a knife. You never hear of mass murders being carried out with a steak knife now do you? You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home.
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Post by Californian on Feb 10, 2013 0:36:02 GMT -6
You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home. What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think?
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 10, 2013 3:41:45 GMT -6
you lose again. as far as domestic assaults go, there are very few homes that do not have steak knives, which are just as deadly, and in EVERY instance where a gun is used, had the gun not been there, the knife would have been. the REALITY is that there is only ONE god, and that is the god of the bible. it doesn't matter whether or not some idiot chooses to follow the pedophile who hallucinated islam, or follow buddha, or anything else. Actually I win. Your claim that "steak knives are as deadly as firearms" is rubbish, as demonstrated by the USA's very high rate of homicide in comparison to the rest of the world. Everyone knows that it is more efficient to kill someone with a gun then with a knife. You never hear of mass murders being carried out with a steak knife now do you? You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home. first of all, suicides are irrelevant, but, when you bring suicides into the gun argument, you prove MY point. a gun is the surest way to make sure you are successful in dying. those who eat a handful of pills,then call 911, are obviously only trying to get attention. those who use a gun are dead serious, pun intended. if a gun wasn't available, they would use a knife, or rope, the simple FACT is that more people are murdered with hammers than with assault rifles. www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/03/FBI-More-People-Killed-With-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Riflesi am not the biggest fan of assault rifles. they are fun to shoot, but, if i have a pos coming in my window, my ruger 9mm is more maneuverable than an ar-15. none the less, there are many people who prefer the rifle, and they have the right to have it
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 10, 2013 3:46:26 GMT -6
You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home. What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/03/FBI-More-People-Killed-With-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Rifles, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? this is precisely where the gun grabber nutjobs lose. you cannot compare the u.s. to any other country in the world. the difference in crime rate between the u.s. and britain, france, norway, japan, or any other nation is specious on its face. there is no other country in the world that has the same demographics as the u.s. anytime some clown tries to make such a ridiculous comparison, they lose ALL credibility
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 5:35:22 GMT -6
You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home. What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? Time for a reality check. If your nation ends up being governed by a dictator in the spirit of Pol Pot, Hitler or Khmer Rouge then your constitution will be irrelevant. It is merely a piece of paper. Its not going to protect you from anything at all.
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Post by Kay on Feb 10, 2013 5:37:46 GMT -6
What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? Time for a reality check. If your nation ends up being governed by a dictator in the spirit of Pol Pot, Hitler or Khmer Rouge then your constitution will be irrelevant. It is merely a piece of paper. Its not going to protect you from anything at all. With an armed citizenry that is very unlikely to happen, in fact, that's one of the purposes of the second amendment.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 10, 2013 5:56:48 GMT -6
Reality check complete - I am real. Now it's time to go get my new pistol Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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Post by iamjumbo on Feb 10, 2013 17:47:02 GMT -6
What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? Time for a reality check. If your nation ends up being governed by a dictator in the spirit of Pol Pot, Hitler or Khmer Rouge then your constitution will be irrelevant. It is merely a piece of paper. Its not going to protect you from anything at all. you obviously no nothing about this nation. the FACT is that it can NEVER end up being governed by a dicatator in the spirit of pol pot, hitler, etc, because the constitution prevents it
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 20:10:17 GMT -6
Time for a reality check. If your nation ends up being governed by a dictator in the spirit of Pol Pot, Hitler or Khmer Rouge then your constitution will be irrelevant. It is merely a piece of paper. Its not going to protect you from anything at all. With an armed citizenry that is very unlikely to happen, in fact, that's one of the purposes of the second amendment. It is not realistic to believe that an armed citizenry can take on the American Armed forces and win. The second amendment was written on context of the American war of Independence at time when Invasion was a real threat. Nowadays if your government wants to oppress you all they need to do is convince you they are doing the right thing.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 10, 2013 20:19:25 GMT -6
No, rebellions are started by those with the guns and weapons they have. If their cause is a just one then the military will no longer fight against their own people. That is a far stretch in this country that the military would even support open oppression of the citizenry. The all volunteer force ensures that. We have already had indications that police will not enforce laws against the 2nd and the current administration is no friend to the military.
Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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Post by Kay on Feb 10, 2013 20:23:33 GMT -6
We won the war against the British and gained independence, a fight against the government. Who says we can't do it again
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 11, 2013 7:04:30 GMT -6
We won the war against the British and gained independence, a fight against the government. Who says we can't do it again Apparently someone farther back in the thread.
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Post by whitediamonds on Feb 11, 2013 7:50:13 GMT -6
If we have gained our independence, why do most citizens feel so resricted, by so many laws?
What did Native Americans win?
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Post by Californian on Feb 11, 2013 7:57:51 GMT -6
What did Native Americans win? Casinos.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 11, 2013 10:27:58 GMT -6
Touche' kemo sabe8-)
Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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Post by whitediamonds on Feb 11, 2013 10:44:46 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 19:11:52 GMT -6
We won the war against the British and gained independence, a fight against the government. Who says we can't do it again Apparently someone farther back in the thread. That was 200 years ago
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 12, 2013 19:20:55 GMT -6
Yes, I am a master of the oblivious Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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Post by Kay on Feb 12, 2013 19:34:19 GMT -6
Apparently someone farther back in the thread. That was 200 years ago You'll never understand, because you're not an American, it's as simple as that
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Feb 12, 2013 19:52:42 GMT -6
Apparently someone farther back in the thread. That was 200 years ago 200 years ago damn it. We ought to have matured by now. Only in some things mind.
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Post by Californian on Feb 12, 2013 20:08:00 GMT -6
Apparently someone farther back in the thread. That was 200 years ago And.........?
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Post by starbux on Feb 13, 2013 3:40:56 GMT -6
You don't have the right to own a car, it's a privilege that you get a liscenced to do so after demonstrating competency, albeit most drivers are not. You're confusing a driver's license with ownership of personal property. Having a driver's license is not a requirement for owning an automobile. A driver's license is a privilege; ownership of personal property is a right. Ok you beat me on technicality. Yes of course you can own one and do nothing with it, sure, I buy that. You have to prove o be competent to use it. Mguns should be handled Ina similar manner. It's funny that in the military you can't even ouch weapon unles you meet period competency qualifications. Should be the same for gun ownership. Pu should have psych reviews and regestered to prove mental competency asvell
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Post by starbux on Feb 13, 2013 3:52:33 GMT -6
You don't have the right to own a car, it's a privilege that you get a liscenced to do so after demonstrating competency, albeit most drivers are not. You could look at firearms the same way. You should only have them after thorough checks and psych evaluations, and you prove you understand how to safely use and store them. There are a lot of people in possession of them who should not be IMO. for the most part, you are correct. however, we have a perfect example right now of it not working as you envision it. the ex lapd boy passed the psych eval required in order to be a cop. thus far, he has murdered three people. Yeah that's true except hat ex LAPD boy was a Naval Officer, once a pilot candidate at my same base where I went flight school. You take a college graduate who was going to be navy pilot but washed out. I believe he washed out because of air sickness if I remember. Then he becomes a cop for the Navy than LAPD. So even though the pilot thing did not work out he managed to find employment elsewhere ie two above, you rise up to the rank of 03 lieutenant, we call captains in the air force. You have been doing the right thing all your life. And because of complaint you make you gt fired fom LAPD, hen eventually you are releaved of duty and administratively discharged, loosing one of the most coveted statuses in the military and ht is a commissioned officer. Now everything he worked for in his mind is gone. So yeah he snapped pretty big. Not making escuses at all or him but mearley pointing out hat at that time prior to the goings he was sane. Mental illness can happen fast without warning. The only possible way to mitigate is to continuously monitor peoples state of minds when owning guns. Had there been a regular vl he would own one as a private citizen this might have been prevented, and may not. Thre perfect solutions to this issue. But doing something is better then nothing.
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Post by starbux on Feb 13, 2013 3:56:41 GMT -6
We won the war against the British and gained independence, a fight against the government. Who says we can't do it again The government has F16s and bombers, tanks and other major fire power. All your ar15' s and ak's would be no match to even a predator drone over your head. Meh people are outmatched by the government in this one, unless a majority of Americans can secretly plot an overtaking with maybe chinas help and their firepower.
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Post by starbux on Feb 13, 2013 3:59:23 GMT -6
You pro 2nd amendment types are so proud of bringing out those stories about people defending themselves in their homes. However you forget to consider all those domestics that became domestic homicides due to the presence of a firearm in the home, the completed suicides because there was a gun in the home. What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? I guess every American should have Nuke and a stinger missile in their garage. Obviously if modern fire were arround when hey wrote ht their would be more restrictions.
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Post by Donnie on Feb 16, 2013 4:33:57 GMT -6
Actually I win. Your claim that "steak knives are as deadly as firearms" is rubbish, as demonstrated by the USA's very high rate of homicide in comparison to the rest of the world. You are repeating a lie that somebody told you. Many other nations in the world have much higher homicide rates than the US, that includes nations with strict firearms laws.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2013 5:30:22 GMT -6
Actually I win. Your claim that "steak knives are as deadly as firearms" is rubbish, as demonstrated by the USA's very high rate of homicide in comparison to the rest of the world. You are repeating a lie that somebody told you. Many other nations in the world have much higher homicide rates than the US, that includes nations with strict firearms laws. You have a better homicide generally when compared against poor nations with a lot of civil war. However when you compare your nation against Europe, and Canada, and Aus/NZ you are right down the bottom. Courtesy of Wikipedia. Homicide per capita United States 4.8 And nations that do better then the States Djibouti 3.4 Mauritius 2.5 São Tomé and Príncipe 1.9 Algeria 1.5 Niger 3.8 Canada 1.6 Chile 3.2 China 1.0 Hong Kong 0.2 Japan 0.4 Macau 0.7 Malaysia 2.3 Singapore 0.3 Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe Sweden 1.0 91 Europe Northern Europe United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe Albania 4.0 127 Europe Southern Europe Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 56 Europe Southern Europe Croatia 1.4 62 Europe Southern Europe Greece 1.5 176 Europe Southern Europe Italy 0.9 529 Europe Southern Europe Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe Montenegro 3.5 22 Europe Southern Europe Portugal 1.2 124 Europe Southern Europe Serbia 1.2 123 Europe Southern Europe Slovenia 0.7 15 Europe Southern Europe Spain 0.8 390 Europe Southern Europe Macedonia 1.9 40 Europe Southern Europe Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe Belgium 1.7 180 Europe Western Europe France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe Germany 0.8 690 Europe Western Europe Liechtenstein 2.8 1 Europe Western Europe Luxembourg 2.5 12 Europe Western Europe Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia New Zealand 0.9 39 Oceania Australasia Fiji 2.8 23 Oceania Melanesia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rateBasically all these nations whom people in the USA feel superior to have a lower homicide rate then the United States.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Feb 16, 2013 6:22:55 GMT -6
What is a "Pro Second Amendment" type? The Constitution is the foundation of our government, and the Bill of Rights doesn't restrict Americans, it restricts our government from infringing upon our rights. Given that, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that all Americans are "pro Second Amendment" types? And more to the point, you're not an American, so frankly, who gives a flying *f---* what you think? I guess every American should have Nuke and a stinger missile in their garage. Obviously if modern fire were arround when hey wrote ht their would be more restrictions. Nukes are way too cumbersome and generally a pain in the but. Stingers on the other hand. I have a shelf ready for those Sent from my LS670 using proboards
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