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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 17, 2013 12:49:39 GMT -6
No traps, just looking for input.
It would be nice to know your position, but response is not a requirement.
We have many new members and guests that may desire to participate.
This poll will close in a week, but the discussion (hopefully) will begin before then.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 17, 2013 13:08:21 GMT -6
I vote pro-dp, pro gun rights, pro life.
Gun rights are directly guaranteed and protected by the US Constitution.
Abortion rights were protected under the 14th Amendment under the right to privacy. I do not disagree with it, I feel it is a personal issue not a government issue. I can be pro life, but I support the rights of individuals to make their own health issue choices.
The death penalty is a punishment authorized by the Federal Government and adjudicated by the states. This is a state's right issue and determined by each state. I am pro dp, but I am pro states rights. Like the choice argument, I support state rights as well. I may not agree with it, support it, or vote for it, but if it is the law of the land then it is the law.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 17, 2013 22:11:47 GMT -6
Pro DP, pro gun rights, pro life.
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Post by Donnie on Jan 18, 2013 22:44:02 GMT -6
Pro DP, pro gun rights, pro life. Aye
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 19, 2013 6:52:47 GMT -6
I had expected more votes (even anonymous ones) across all tops. I really didn't think the population of this board was predominantly pro, pro, pro.
Interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 8:12:27 GMT -6
I wonder if the 14th amendment would have included if the constitution was being written today
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 8:14:24 GMT -6
Pro dp, anti guns, pro life.
I am not against gun ownership but I don't think it shouldbe a right.
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Post by dogrose on Jan 19, 2013 14:02:54 GMT -6
I didnt vote pro or against for the DP as I am, to quote, "on the fence" at the moment. I am pro life as I do not agree with putting life, any life down the toilet. I once watched a documentary about abortion and untill then had no opinion, but that changed me. Coming from England I am pro gun control because having seen the havoc guns can cause, feel that they do not belong in the genaral populations hands.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jan 19, 2013 17:09:52 GMT -6
I missed this <blush> Pro Death, Pro gun control ( not anti gun) and pro life. Mind you I did go through all that riot grrl thing in the 90s where I was all "let the woman decide man , its her body."
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 20, 2013 5:07:14 GMT -6
My points are simple. In the US, we were given certain unalienable rights. One of those was the right to bear arms. Later, the 14th Amendment, the right to privacy, was used to clarify that a woman not the government has the right to her own privacy in regards to abortion.
My underlying reasoning in all of this the reduction or elimination of government intrusion in my private life. What were the weapons of choice for the 9/11 terrorists?
Box cutters. I don't see a ban on box cutters.
OK City bombing? ANFO (or AN/FO) for ammonium nitrate/fuel oil. No bans on high nitrogen fertilizer and racing fuel.
So with this latest round of Executive Orders the President has not only restricted gun rights, but he has violated (at least in my mind) some key parts of the HIPA laws designed for patience privacy.
Not only are gun laws changing, but personal privacy especially as it relates to mental health are changing as well. The are very broad and sweeping changes that will not only center around owning or operating fire arms.
Beware of any government that begins to dictate rules for health and how is and is not worthy of care, concern or even living.
The DP takes a very small back seat to this current debate. Actually, it's not a debate. Prezbo has signed the executive orders and they are going into effect.
And I am buying guns and ammo as fast as my savings account will let me.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jan 20, 2013 6:20:23 GMT -6
After seeing the car wreck threads on gun control news items online with Pro guns versus Antis, I swore im never getting involved in a forum spat over it (and its nowt to do with me anyway, ive no dog in the race.) Too many 'John Waynes' versus liberal yoghurt knitters and neither impress me if im honest. All I will say is I have licensed guns (for hunting/pest control) and though we dont have the right to defend our land as much as you guys do (although we've got more than we used to), if someone is on my land at 3am and I dont know who they are then I wont be posting here for a while
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Post by honeyroastedpeanut on Jan 20, 2013 7:24:03 GMT -6
Anti DP, Pro gun control, Pro "choice" although I hate the last term. It's not a choice for women, it's a conflict between her rights and the life growing inside her. It's more of a heavy burden.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jan 20, 2013 7:40:28 GMT -6
"It's not a choice for women, it's a conflict between her rights and the life growing inside her. It's more of a heavy burden."
TheBroker likes this
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Post by Donnie on Jan 20, 2013 8:51:03 GMT -6
My points are simple. In the US, we were given certain unalienable rights. I am for you, sir. But my understanding of the Declaration of Independence is that God gave those same rights to everybody in the world, and that it is the duty of legitimate governments to support and defend those rights. That is clear in the operative wording of the Second Amendment. "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The wording describes a right that already existed before pen was put to paper. Thomas Jefferson put it succinctly: "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?" It is ironic that those words are engraved in stone in Washington, D.C.
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Post by nils on Jan 20, 2013 9:37:37 GMT -6
Abolish dp, do away with guns and let the woman decide.
Yours truly euroliberal
Nils. :-)
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 10:52:55 GMT -6
I had expected more votes (even anonymous ones) across all tops. I really didn't think the population of this board was predominantly pro, pro, pro. Interesting. I think abortion should be a sacrament. Look around you at who's getting them. Do you really want these women to breed?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 11:37:20 GMT -6
Anti DP, Pro gun control, Pro "choice" although I hate the last term. It's not a choice for women, it's a conflict between her rights and the life growing inside her. It's more of a heavy burden. or a conflict between living and possibly dying (herself) if they have some diseases or blood disorders.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 11:57:43 GMT -6
Anti DP, Pro gun control, Pro "choice" although I hate the last term. It's not a choice for women, it's a conflict between her rights and the life growing inside her. It's more of a heavy burden. or a conflict between living and possibly dying (herself) if they have some diseases or blood disorders. No one would have a problem with abortion under those circumstances, majority of abortions have nothing to do with that issue at all.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 12:00:35 GMT -6
I had expected more votes (even anonymous ones) across all tops. I really didn't think the population of this board was predominantly pro, pro, pro. Interesting. I think abortion should be a sacrament. Look around you at who's getting them. Do you really want these women to breed? Guess we should ban guns for all ( military only) :-/if we decide who has the right to give birth.
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 12:23:02 GMT -6
Guess we should ban guns for all ( military only) :-/if we decide who has the right to give birth. Thank you for displaying your traditional inability to reason.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 12:36:14 GMT -6
Guess we should ban guns for all ( military only) :-/if we decide who has the right to give birth. Thank you for displaying your traditional inability to reason. Your Welcome..Is abortion so acceptable for the reasons you mentioned?Scary.
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -6
Thank you for displaying your traditional inability to reason. Your Welcome..Is abortion so acceptable for the reasons you mentioned?Scary. "You're." Yes, it is. Sanger wasn't wrong about everything.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 19:05:19 GMT -6
Anti DP, Pro gun control, Pro "choice" although I hate the last term. It's not a choice for women, it's a conflict between her rights and the life growing inside her. It's more of a heavy burden. or a conflict between living and possibly dying (herself) if they have some or blood disorders. I think you are arguing the exception case and not the typical case. The vast majority of women don't choose to have an abortion because their life is at stake. Most women who choose to have an abortion do so, because they feel they are unable to take on the responsibilities at that time, or they don't want to take on the responsibilities of a family at that time. Even the minister at my church believes women should be able to have an abortion if their life was genuinelly at risk
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 19:36:28 GMT -6
Even the minister at my church believes women should be able to have an abortion if their life was genuinelly at risk The problem you have with that if you believe in abortion "in certain circumstances," you believe in abortion. If the Rs in this country could let go of their fascination with forced childbearing, they might get elected sometime in the next 20 years or so.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 20:11:17 GMT -6
Even the minister at my church believes women should be able to have an abortion if their life was genuinelly at risk The problem you have with that if you believe in abortion "in certain circumstances," you believe in abortion. If the Rs in this country could let go of their fascination with forced childbearing, they might get elected sometime in the next 20 years or so. Medical abortion is saving ones life, over abortion on demand. In the USA 1.3 million a year equals 3,500 per day on demand abortions. Worldwide 42 million abortions. Abortion is a barbaric act of violence that kills off innocent human life form(beings) Now that is cruel and unusual punishment of the innocent.
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 21:06:12 GMT -6
Medical abortion is saving ones life, over abortion on demand. Yeah, so what? Here's an idea: MYOFB.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 21:29:29 GMT -6
Medical abortion is saving ones life, over abortion on demand. Yeah, so what? Here's an idea: MYOFB. I do not take orders but thanks. As long as millions of innocent human life is being torn apart vacuumed, limbs torn off and flushed is going on, while the the holier then thou are preaching the DP is cruel and unusual and barbaric/bloodthirsty? I do not think I will MMOFB. Hitler loved abortion for the Jews, yet not for the Germans why is that?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 22:15:00 GMT -6
or a conflict between living and possibly dying (herself) if they have some or blood disorders. I think you are arguing the exception case and not the typical case. The vast majority of women don't choose to have an abortion because their life is at stake. Most women who choose to have an abortion do so, because they feel they are unable to take on the responsibilities at that time, or they don't want to take on the responsibilities of a family at that time. Even the minister at my church believes women should be able to have an abortion if their life was genuinelly at risk and when being honest one has to admit that is a choice too - whether to risk their life and continue to carry the baby, or not - so pro choice, and it should, most importantly, remain their own and their doctors' choice, not the government's to me it's also pro-life in choosing an abortion in the early stages where the fetus is not viable anyway, so they can keep on affording to feed and clothe and house the children (perhaps even the ones they already have) I don't know about Australia but decent daycare costs a fortune here. And most homes have both parents working so they can make it these days. in the case of the life of the mother, it is also pro life, and pro any existing children that were already born being able to keep having a mommy... No one should be forced by the law to follow what someone else's preacher proclaims
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Post by Californian on Jan 20, 2013 22:20:03 GMT -6
I do not take orders but thanks. As long as millions of innocent human life is being torn apart vacuumed, limbs torn off and flushed is going on, while the the holier then thou are preaching the DP is cruel and unusual and barbaric/bloodthirsty? What in the history of homo sapiens sapiens convinces you that we've every acted otherwise? A pity. Beats me. Didn't know him. How come?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 20, 2013 23:36:20 GMT -6
Hippocratic Oath. Euthanasia,intentionally ending life. For dignity Abortion, intentionally ending life. DP, intentionally ending life. A liberal/progressive society. Why is the DP the only ending of life a Doctor cannot perform agains't the Oath? Or by Oath not to give instructions on how to take life? Abortion takes life of the most innocent beings by brutal methods millions of" on demand for not being wanted or hardship affordable. Abortion was part of the topic of this thread, DP and guns.
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