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Post by Felix2 on Feb 28, 2005 10:31:37 GMT -6
Has anyone pro or anti seen these pictures and got any comments? I have not provided a link because they are very graphic. Whatever this man did do, and it does appear he was indeed guilty and a nasty piece of work, I cannot equate what was done to him in his execution with the actions of a decent society.
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Post by Jane on Feb 28, 2005 10:35:42 GMT -6
Felix - yes i have seen them and they are just barbaric - hence why i am against the electric chair. I am only human and as much as i beleive in the DP no-one deserves to be not only embarrased like this, but killed in this manner. It makes me sick whenever i come across those pics on the internet.
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Post by Felix2 on Feb 28, 2005 10:42:51 GMT -6
There are also concerns that LI is just better at masking the actual suffering in the death, and I have read that the same methods are not used when putting animals to sleep for this precise reason? The article claimed that whilst these chemicals are not used for animals, they are the same ones used in LI's.
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Post by Jane on Feb 28, 2005 10:46:52 GMT -6
There does seem to conflicting evidence as to whether the LI is actually as humane as they lead us to believe. I mean no-one can actually tell as they cant experience it themselves. some say they "fall asleep or slip into unconciousness" i know i spelt that wrong and just die without knowing. others claim they cannot move their facial muscles to express the pain they are feeling - almost like hot fire up the body threw their veins. we will never know !
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Post by lb on Feb 28, 2005 15:06:10 GMT -6
Tiny Davis pictures are really disgusting . I can't understand people who enjoy stuff like that. As to the question of painless death, there are rather different opinions, even though scientific ones. The first drug - Sodium thiopental is Anesthetic. In surgeries, patients are given a dose of 100 to 150 milligrams. For executions, as many as 5 grams (5,000 mg) of Pentothal may be administered. This dose itself if administered properly is lethal. But if it wears off the second drug paralyzes the executed person and he is felt completely conscious through the rest of the time. He suffers slow and painful suffocation. Then, after minute or two, while the man is still alive, Potassium chloride is given to induce cardiac arrest. This substance might cause incredible pain coming from the veins of the man. A pain which most of us will never feel. I read an article about Carlos DeLuna (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/deathrow/executed/deluna.jpg) and death row chaplain Carroll Pickett, the last man DeLuna saw on this earth. Here is what Pickett remembered: "Carlos was basically very scared. I said, `It will take about 7 to 12 seconds and you will be asleep. Don't worry. You've already done the hard part with the needles.' "He said, 'OK' and thanked me for being there and being his last friend . .. He never took his eyes off me. I moved back to my position at the foot of the gurney. "He asked if I could hold his hand, but I said I couldn't do that because 'You will be strapped down, so I'll hold your right leg and squeeze it so you know I will be right here, right here.'" That night things didn't go as usual. The pulse didn't fade quickly and the leg jerked. Pickett still sees the frightened, questioning eyes of Carlos DeLuna and wrestles with his conscience about whether he misled the young man about his execution being swift and painless -- like falling asleep. "He gave me a look in his face, which I interpreted to mean, 'Did you tell me the truth? Because this is taking longer than 7 seconds.'" The reason that your government is using pavulon is to provide a look of serenity of the executed man. And maybe to gain several more supporters. I don't know why actually. DP is quiet strange an unusual for me. On the other hand MAYBE the electric chair is completely painless. At least some people say so. The voltage which is initialy applied is a little bit more than 2kV. The condemned man has a sponge with saline solution on its shaven head which is a very good conductor of electricity. AC current is applied if I'm not mistaken. The current wich passes the body MAYBE destorys this part of the neurotic system which is responsible for delivering pain to the brain at a speed much higher than the speed at which the pain is conducted... So one never knows, maybe Tiny Davis never felt any pain?
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Post by Rev. Agave on Feb 28, 2005 21:10:38 GMT -6
I posted a link awhile back. Someone asked why there were no pics of executions, so I posted the link.
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Post by lw on Feb 28, 2005 21:14:13 GMT -6
I posted a link awhile back. Someone asked why there were no pics of executions, so I posted the link. I am sure they don't want that stuff up on the forum any more than autopsy photos. Just my opinion.
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Post by lw on Feb 28, 2005 21:17:40 GMT -6
I posted a link awhile back. Someone asked why there were no pics of executions, so I posted the link. But yeah I did see them. Pretty gross. You can find anything on the internet. It is amazing.
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Post by Donnie wo login on Feb 28, 2005 21:27:16 GMT -6
But yeah I did see them. Pretty gross. You can find anything on the internet. It is amazing. You can't find pictures of the person who Tiny Davis killed or any other murder victims. As for the electric chair being barbaric, think about that when ever you plug in your electric blanket or flip on your light switch. People die to bring you that convenience. The difference is that when those innocent, hard-working people die, it is a lot worse then what happened to Tiny Davis.
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Post by lw on Feb 28, 2005 21:33:08 GMT -6
You can't find pictures of the person who Tiny Davis killed or any other murder victims. As for the electric chair being barbaric, think about that when ever you plug in your <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href=" www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=electric%20blanket" onmouseover="window.status='electric blanket'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">electric blanket</a> or flip on your <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href=" www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=light%20switch" onmouseover="window.status='light switch'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">light switch</a>. People die to bring you that convenience. The difference is that when those innocent, hard-working people die, it is a lot worse then what happened to Tiny Davis. Stop putting words in my posts. I did not say the electric chair was barbaric. My point is you can find some pretty gross things on the internet. Maybe you can't find those murders or autopsy photos but you can find a couple of pictures of the crime scene at the Dahmer apartment.
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Post by lw on Feb 28, 2005 21:42:10 GMT -6
You can't find pictures of the person who Tiny Davis killed or any other murder victims. Wrong. You can find pictures of the OJ murder scene. You can find pictures of JonBenet with the garotte. You can see Tupac on the gurney. You can find pictures of murder victims.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 1, 2005 4:36:51 GMT -6
all I can say, is if tiny davis pics are what the good and decent guys do to anyone, then I'm drinking with the devil.
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Luca
Regular
Instant idiot. Just add alcohol.
Posts: 408
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Post by Luca on Mar 1, 2005 4:48:29 GMT -6
then I'm drinking with the devil. Finally some company! Bring few bottles of Koskenkorva with you.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 1, 2005 9:50:52 GMT -6
LOL Luca, Will be with ya in a minute!!
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Post by GlennF on Mar 1, 2005 11:00:44 GMT -6
Has anyone pro or anti seen these pictures and got any comments? I have not provided a link because they are very graphic. Whatever this man did do, and it does appear he was indeed guilty and a nasty piece of work, I cannot equate what was done to him in his execution with the actions of a decent society. Yeah, well when I was a kid I also had a little nosebleed, and it looked a hell of alot worse than Davis'. It's amazing what a little blood can do to your white shirt!
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 2, 2005 6:09:14 GMT -6
So I can take it a lot of these MVS' are really complaining about nothing much, ignoring the death, if the blood is limited, it's no big deal?
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Post by GlennF on Mar 2, 2005 9:22:03 GMT -6
So I can take it a lot of these MVS' are really complaining about nothing much, ignoring the death, if the blood is limited, it's no big deal? Talking through your backside again, I see! This thread has absolutely nothing to do with what the murder victims have gone through, this is about Davis and his little nosebleed! For a start, they certainly fed him well on death row, did you notice what a big fat slob he was when he was eventually executed? Considering his weight plus the fact that he was on medication for high blood pressure doesn't take an Einstein to realise that this can bring on a nosebleed any time.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 2, 2005 9:59:03 GMT -6
Of course you missede the detail of his horribly contorted face before they took off the strap that probably smothered him. He may have been scum, but you are no better if you try to describe what happened there as a simple nosebleed and that would not take Einstein to notice either.
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Post by GlennF on Mar 2, 2005 12:41:26 GMT -6
Of course you missede the detail of his horribly contorted face before they took off the strap that probably smothered him. He may have been scum, but you are no better if you try to describe what happened there as a simple nosebleed and that would not take Einstein to notice either. The strap was most probably pulled too tight, that doesn't mean he was cooked to death as some antis insinuated at the time! And by the way Felix, didn't you read the full record of the execution procedure? Before they pulled the switch they politely asked him, "If anything is not to your complete satisfaction, put your hand up!" ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Charlene on Mar 2, 2005 17:11:37 GMT -6
At the time of the execution, the inquiry into the "horrible" pictures resulted in medical testimony about this ANIMAL. Davis was grossly overweight and the chin strap would not fit under his chin because he didn't really have one. He was sweating profusely and the strap slipped off his chin and pressed against his nose. He had extreme problems with high blood pressure and he regularly took prescription anti-coagulants. This explains the blood on the shirt and it looks like much more than it was because his shirt was soaked with sweat and this made the blood drops spread more widely than they would have under different conditions. Now, do you know what he DID? ? He slaughtered Nancy Weiler, her unborn baby, and her two daughters while her husband was out of town preparing a new home for the family who was being transferred to another city. Here is an excellent article that has been posted on this site for a long time about this case: WHO WEEPS FOR THE BLOOD OF THE WEILER FAMILY? Bob Greene - Chicago Tribune July 14, 1999 Some people were horrified by what happened to Allen Lee Davis last week. Davis, 54, was put to death in Florida's electric chair. During his execution, a spot of blood unexpectedly appeared on his shirt; by the time the execution was finished, the blood spot had grown to approximately 8 inches across. Prison officials later said that the blood came from a simple nosebleed, and that the blood dripped onto Davis' shirt. But some witnesses said that the blood seemed to come from Davis' chest area. All of this was used by some as evidence that putting prisoners to death--specifically by using the electric chair--is an appalling and cruel thing to do. The lawyer for another Florida man on Death Row said, "The degrading and mutilating manner in which (Davis) died was a clear violation of the Eighth Amendment. Blood gushing from the face and chest of a dying inmate is repugnant to the conscience of mankind." Civil liberties attorney Howard Simon said that the method used to execute Davis was "barbaric." Perhaps. But before we go too far down the path of mourning the way in which Allen Lee Davis died, maybe, just for a few moments, it is worth reporting something that has not been commented upon much: what Davis did to get to Death Row in the first place. On May 11, 1982, Davis--an ex-convict--entered the Jacksonville, Fla., home of the John Weiler family. Weiler, an executive with the Westinghouse Corp., was on a business trip in Pittsburgh. In the Weiler home, Allen Lee Davis attacked Nancy Weiler, 37, who at the time was three months pregnant with the family's third child. Davis bludgeoned Mrs. Weiler--who was the corresponding secretary of the PTA at her children's school--so severely that she was barely recognizable when police found her body. Davis brutalized Mrs. Weiler with such force that the trigger guard on the gun with which he was beating her broke, as did the wooden grips and metal frame of its handle. Davis tied up the Weiler's 10-year-old daughter, Kristy--a 5th-grade student who hoped to become a nuclear engineer someday--and shot her in the face, killing her. The Weilers' other child -- 5-year-old Kathy -- tried to run from Davis. He shot her in the back, and then beat her, crushing her skull. There was quite a bit of blood in the Weiler home after Davis had killed the mother and her two children. Considerably more blood than inadvertently appeared on Davis' shirt during the execution. When prisoners are wrongly sent to Death Row, there is justifiable outrage that the court system could condemn innocent people to death. This is as it should be. But there was no question about Allen Lee Davis. He murdered Mrs. Weiler and her two little girls. No one disputes that. And for 16 full years the State of Florida housed him, took care of his physical needs, fed him all the food he desired (he ballooned up to 344 pound in prison; one of his attorneys based an appeal on the theory that Davis should not be executed because his obesity might complicate the electrocution and cause him pain, which the attorney said would be cruel and unusual punishment. The attorney did not characterize the extent of the cruelty in the deaths of the Weiler family.) As his last meal before his execution, Davis received from the State of Florida the dinner he had requested: a lobster tail, fried potatoes, a half-pound of fried shrimp, six ounces of fried clam strips, half a loaf of garlic bread and 32 ounces of A&W root beer. In 1982, Davis did not give Mrs. Weiler and her two children a choice of a last meal before he killed them. But now the focus is on the blood spot on Davis' chest, and whether that indicates we are an immoral and vicious society for doing such a thing to him. John Weiler--whose wife and daughters have been dead for 17 years--apparently doesn't think so. At one point as he waited for Davis to at last receive the punishment the courts had ordered for him, Weiler said: "It is cruel and unusual punishment of the victims, living and dead, to know that this animal . . . still breathes." And now Allen Lee Davis is dead. Evidently his death was a somewhat unpleasant experience for him. There are a lot of things in this world for the public to worry about. Davis' discomfort is not necessarily one of them. The strap was most probably pulled too tight, that doesn't mean he was cooked to death as some antis insinuated at the time! And by the way Felix, didn't you read the full record of the execution procedure? Before they pulled the switch they politely asked him, "If anything is not to your complete satisfaction, put your hand up!" ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Baltimore on Mar 2, 2005 21:56:20 GMT -6
Now, do you know what he DID? ? Charlene! Thanks for the article. And thanks for putting things in perspective!!
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Post by Jane on Mar 3, 2005 3:19:53 GMT -6
Excellent post Charlene ..... certainly puts it into perspective.
I think its only human nature for people to feel sorry for anyone that is tortured in this way and the pics are pretty gross -but not as gross as the pictures taken by forensics at the murder scene.
ROT IN HELL MUTT
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 3, 2005 4:07:27 GMT -6
I fully agree Charlene, that what this man did was nothing short of heinous and said so in my post, and as for him personally, that was never the issue for me, what worries me is what he effectively makes the rest of us into when we kill even thrash like him in that sort of a fashion.
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Post by Charlene on Mar 3, 2005 11:54:10 GMT -6
I have never been a proponent of the electric chair - lethal injection is much more humane and is therefore preferred as far as I am concerned. I don't want anyone to suffer more than the minimum amount of physical pain, not even the worst of the worst cold-blooded, heinous killers, which Davis certainly qualified as. He brutally slaughtered three viable humans and destroyed all possibilities of the fourth life. He decimated John Weiler's family in one fell swoop. Did he suffer? Perhaps, but really I don't give it much concern. His suffering cannot be compared to theirs. His fate is one he chose. My conscience is clear and I feel no worry about what effect his death had on society. It could only be an improvement as far as I am concerned. Since it is strictly a matter of opinion regarding what he makes the rest of us into when he is killed in this fashion, my opinion is that I have been made into a citizen who is safer in his absence. I fully agree Charlene, that what this man did was nothing short of heinous and said so in my post, and as for him personally, that was never the issue for me, what worries me is what he effectively makes the rest of us into when we kill even thrash like him in that sort of a fashion.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Mar 3, 2005 15:15:59 GMT -6
In all honesty I am suprised that no one has tried to use one of the Davis pics for an avatar.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 3, 2005 15:29:45 GMT -6
no pro has obviously thought of it before. Many things dont occur to some pro's, like the possibility of factual innocence, people on DR not actually being monsters, using Davis pics for Avators.
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Post by Charlene on Mar 3, 2005 17:10:29 GMT -6
If they did and I saw it, I would delete it anyway so why bother? In all honesty I am suprised that no one has tried to use one of the Davis pics for an avatar.
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Post by Charlene on Mar 3, 2005 17:12:22 GMT -6
It would be more likely to be an anti who would use it - why would a pro want a vicious killer to represent him? I could see an anti wanting to use it so they could try to show the blood in argument against execution. no pro has obviously thought of it before. Many things dont occur to some pro's, like the possibility of factual innocence, people on DR not actually being monsters, using Davis pics for Avators.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Mar 3, 2005 17:17:50 GMT -6
It would be more likely to be an anti who would use it - why would a pro want a vicious killer to represent him? I could see an anti wanting to use it so they could try to show the blood in argument against execution. I can see it going both ways. That would be a disturbing avatar that could be interpretted both pro or anti. I would not be able to tell if a person was pro or anti by that pic alone. BTW Char, I agree that that pic should not be used for an AV. I wasn't trying to suggest that someone should use it or anything.
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Post by RickZ on Mar 3, 2005 17:20:07 GMT -6
It would be more likely to be an anti who would use it - why would a pro want a vicious killer to represent him? That was my first thought whe I read the original question. I'm of the opinion that the murderers have already had their 15 minutes of face time, and I would do nothing to prolong it by using their silly picture as an avatar. Neither would my knowledge of the pain and suffering they've inflicted on far too many innocents allow me to do so.
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