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Post by Felix2 on Dec 26, 2008 17:09:34 GMT -6
This is starting to annoy me. Why all this fuss over this baby P? What about the countless other babies that have been killed by their low life parents? Us British always like to blame someone so we got some social workers and people higher up sacked over it. How the hell was it their fault? They can't be watching what these damn people are doing to their young children every 5 minutes. If you recall, the social workers visited this baby and saw his condition and did nothing--I believe one said to "wash his face he looks disgusting." And I bet they over looked the smell of urine and feces, besides the fact that he was malnourished. The social workers and doctors did nothing to give this boy a fighting chance. They helped the father kill him by not taking him away. Strange, the press report I read said the actual social worker had recommended he be removed from his parents but that recommendation was overruled by someone higher up which I understood was why the head of services and a councillor or two were fired?
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 26, 2008 17:15:14 GMT -6
Bulshit and you know it. Everyone (guilty or innocent) deserves a fair trial amongst a jury of their peers. That is one thing I'm sure we're all in unison on whether we're pro or Anti DP. Offenders often are from poor backgrounds, hence have little funds to finance a decent defense lawyer. They are often appointted State lawyers who have little or no experience in trying capital cases. This, coupled with the fact that it takes years to exhaust all appeals (to which they have a right to do) runs up an extortionate bill that the taxpayer funds. LWOP does not come close to the cost of the DP. In fact LWOP is mere 'food and water' in comparison. OJ Simpson being a prime candidate of this fact. He is an African American citizen, a rich one hence he had the funds to finance the best defense team there was...who BOUGHT him his life (a frightening reality considering a similar case involving another offender would end up most likely in a death sentence). Had he had been poor, OJ Simpson would be six feet under by now. Then you've got the Department of public prosecution who have to be paid, the legalities, the research. Money in America buys you your life. They want a convintion and they don't care WHO pays as long as someone does. It's an unintelligent, barbaric approach to law and order that serves no purpose other than revenge (quite a selfish approach in fact). The DP has no place in a civilised society or any society for that fact. It does not work. I have to say that Shin demonstrably does have a point, as the gevernor of soem jail or toher once remarked in the US the death penalty is the preserve of the poor man. OJ is a prime example of the way you can buy your life in the uS system and until it is a level playing field and can be demonstrated to be such, nobody morally should be argueing for death for any person. Its frankly corrupted by money and that is why it cannot be trusted with such a thing as human life.
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gillypod
Old Hand
PRO-DP Scot. PTO hates me - I am blessed
Posts: 596
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Post by gillypod on Dec 26, 2008 18:03:25 GMT -6
Maybe Shin does have a point, Felix. However to accuse me of bullsh1t when I feel they way I do about POS who kill children is akin to waving a red rag at a bull.
Has Shin ever read ANY of the Victim's Voices pages? How can anyone read of these murders and not feel that justice should be served.
The whole point of my argument is the fact the British justice may be fair, but the sentencing is poor.
None of these animals will come under your care. I do understand that mental illness requires treatment not punishment, and I admire your committment to your profession. However you must agree that the amount of 'time' these animals will spend in a British prison paying for the murder of this child will be pitifully small.
Anything less than 30 years each will be vilified by the red-tops. And I have to say that I will be agreeing with them.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 28, 2008 17:02:03 GMT -6
Maybe Shin does have a point, Felix. However to accuse me of bullsh1t when I feel they way I do about POS who kill children is akin to waving a red rag at a bull. Has Shin ever read ANY of the Victim's Voices pages? How can anyone read of these murders and not feel that justice should be served. The whole point of my argument is the fact the British justice may be fair, but the sentencing is poor. None of these animals will come under your care. I do understand that mental illness requires treatment not punishment, and I admire your committment to your profession. However you must agree that the amount of 'time' these animals will spend in a British prison paying for the murder of this child will be pitifully small. Anything less than 30 years each will be vilified by the red-tops. And I have to say that I will be agreeing with them. Whilst I do not agree with teh DP I have to say I fully agree with you that sentences here are way too soft, and I'd fully agree with LWOP meaning just that in instances like this.
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gillypod
Old Hand
PRO-DP Scot. PTO hates me - I am blessed
Posts: 596
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Post by gillypod on Dec 29, 2008 3:30:58 GMT -6
Thanks Felix, your reply means a lot to me. Now don't tell everyone that we agree on something
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 29, 2008 4:05:39 GMT -6
Thanks Felix, your reply means a lot to me. Now don't tell everyone that we agree on something I see you're trying to start a nasty vicious rumour, imagine, - us agreeing on something Yeah, sure! ;D
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gillypod
Old Hand
PRO-DP Scot. PTO hates me - I am blessed
Posts: 596
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Post by gillypod on Dec 29, 2008 4:24:16 GMT -6
Thanks Felix, your reply means a lot to me. Now don't tell everyone that we agree on something I see you're trying to start a nasty vicious rumour, imagine, - us agreeing on something Yeah, sure! ;D I loves you too, Felix.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 29, 2008 5:24:38 GMT -6
I see you're trying to start a nasty vicious rumour, imagine, - us agreeing on something Yeah, sure! ;D I loves you too, Felix. Really? We should consummate this, we really should. Where do you live? ;D
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Post by mel77 on Dec 29, 2008 6:48:15 GMT -6
I loves you too, Felix. Really? We should consummate this, we really should. Where do you live? ;D You always try to turn everything into sex. That's why you never get any.
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 29, 2008 6:50:28 GMT -6
Really? We should consummate this, we really should. Where do you live? ;D You always try to turn everything into sex. That's why you never get any. Why do you assume so much or is it an effort to help me get more? ;D
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Post by mel77 on Dec 29, 2008 8:05:54 GMT -6
Bulshit and you know it. Everyone (guilty or innocent) deserves a fair trial amongst a jury of their peers. That is one thing I'm sure we're all in unison on whether we're pro or Anti DP. Offenders often are from poor backgrounds, hence have little funds to finance a decent defense lawyer. They are often appointted State lawyers who have little or no experience in trying capital cases. This, coupled with the fact that it takes years to exhaust all appeals (to which they have a right to do) runs up an extortionate bill that the taxpayer funds. LWOP does not come close to the cost of the DP. In fact LWOP is mere 'food and water' in comparison. OJ Simpson being a prime candidate of this fact. He is an African American citizen, a rich one hence he had the funds to finance the best defense team there was...who BOUGHT him his life (a frightening reality considering a similar case involving another offender would end up most likely in a death sentence). Had he had been poor, OJ Simpson would be six feet under by now. Then you've got the Department of public prosecution who have to be paid, the legalities, the research. Money in America buys you your life. They want a convintion and they don't care WHO pays as long as someone does. It's an unintelligent, barbaric approach to law and order that serves no purpose other than revenge (quite a selfish approach in fact). The DP has no place in a civilised society or any society for that fact. It does not work. I have to say that Shin demonstrably does have a point, as the gevernor of soem jail or toher once remarked in the US the death penalty is the preserve of the poor man. OJ is a prime example of the way you can buy your life in the uS system and until it is a level playing field and can be demonstrated to be such, nobody morally should be argueing for death for any person. Its frankly corrupted by money and that is why it cannot be trusted with such a thing as human life. Felix, there are enough examples which prove otherwise, ask snowstorm to post them again. The fact that the dp is so seldomnly handed down in the first place makes it difficult to say what is "common" and what is not in the US. Before I ask myself the question whether the dp is barbaric or not, I have to think about whether the crime of murder is barbaric. I think it is. I think it is barbaric to willfully take another's life if there is another option. The next question is, what do we do with those held as murders? I am an anti yet I would not call ending a murderer's life "barbaric". I find it unnecessary because I think we should be able to keep murderers behind bars in such a way that they are no danger to others. I wouldn't call every legal killing of a murderer barbaric though. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime and if there was fair due process, it is the unfortunate but due end to that process.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2009 13:14:17 GMT -6
Oh Shin, Shin, Shin. Are you a parent? If you are then I cannot understand why you feel the need to defend 3 bastards who tortured a child. They did have a fair trial according to the laws of Great Britain; they were found guilty and will hopefully be sentenced soon. The whole point of my argument was that the sentencing structure in the UK is pants, which is why I admire American Justice including its use of the DP. These animals (I will not refer to them as Human, but I am sure you will) deliberately tortured a child to DEATH. They did not wag their finger under his nose, nor send him to they naughty step. THEY KILLED HIM!!!!!! What would YOU want to happen to them if they killed your child? Would it be better to give them a slap on the wrist and hope they would never do it again? Would you prefer to let these three walk amongst decent people while they decide who else to torture? Do you hope they will 'find God' and become useful to society? My opinion stands. If my country had the DP, then these 3 would have deserved it. Within 5 years (by my guess), they will be back on the streets free to do this again. I promised myself when I joined this board that I would never be dragged into personal arguments, but when it comes to the death of a child your opinions mean nothing to me. No child should ever suffer indignity, torture or death. When it comes to this level of crime I will never be swayed on my opinion. There is no reason, IMHO, to show criminals any level of sympathy. I care not for their 'unfortunate backgrounds' or whatever other reasons they come up with to excuse what they have done. Maybe you cannot understand why I feel this way about the death of a 17 month old child, because I certainly do not understand why you feel the need to attack me for my compassion. If you are so against the death penalty, then explain to me why you post here? I do not create a login to CCADP and attack the people who post there. If they wish to be so misguided as to SUPPORT child rapists and killers and try to fund their appeals, then the best of luck to them. The death penalty is there for a reason, and long may it continue
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Post by Stormyweather on Jan 2, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -6
Did she leave you speechless Shin?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2009 10:50:47 GMT -6
Lol ok ya got me.....give me a break. I f*cked up the quote function ;-) Did she leave you speechless Shin?
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