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Post by markthompson on Nov 18, 2008 15:06:29 GMT -6
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Post by louise on Nov 19, 2008 2:06:23 GMT -6
omg what a tragic story that was so hard to read. I hope they put them in general population and let the other inmates do whatever they want to them every day that they are in there.
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Tim S
Old Hand
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Post by Tim S on Nov 19, 2008 2:28:03 GMT -6
Right well thats got the revenge bit over and done with. And as the dp does not exist in England there is no point in brining it up here. On the other hand Mark says that the " dp is way too good for these *******" Interesting that prison is a worse punishment than the dp.
Now what should we do to avoid this happening again and again?
Because making loud noises here and taking the morale high ground does not help one single bit.
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Post by markthompson on Nov 19, 2008 2:37:19 GMT -6
They deserve a worse punishment than the death penalty. Its the easy way out. Lock them up with some serious naughty boys and see how big and hard they are then. Having to contend with people who can defend themselves. They wont last 5 minutes. People really really want to hurt them.
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Post by vikki on Nov 19, 2008 3:13:12 GMT -6
They deserve a worse punishment than the death penalty. Its the easy way out. Lock them up with some serious naughty boys and see how big and hard they are then. Having to contend with people who can defend themselves. They wont last 5 minutes. People really really want to hurt them. Isn't that what's going to happen to them?
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Post by markthompson on Nov 19, 2008 4:22:52 GMT -6
They deserve a worse punishment than the death penalty. Its the easy way out. Lock them up with some serious naughty boys and see how big and hard they are then. Having to contend with people who can defend themselves. They wont last 5 minutes. People really really want to hurt them. Isn't that what's going to happen to them? I hope so. Can we name them on here?
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Nov 19, 2008 4:46:47 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ?
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Post by markthompson on Nov 19, 2008 5:32:53 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ? The failings are down to the local council and doctors not spotting that something is seriously wrong. Unless we get competant people in power then nothing will change. the stupid idiots will miss the next child and the one after that. This council has a history of missing things like this. See the Victoria Climibie case.
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Post by Felix2 on Nov 19, 2008 5:40:57 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ? The failings are down to the local council and doctors not spotting that something is seriously wrong. Unless we get competant people in power then nothing will change. the stupid idiots will miss the next child and the one after that. This council has a history of missing things like this. See the Victoria Climibie case. Its interesting the knock on effectr, yesterday we saw a man who has previously cut a childs throat, he was free and police were pleading with su to use our powers to lock him up because of threats he is currently voiceing again towards children. To make a long stoy short I obliged! Now just waiting for the rush of legal letters to once again arrive! Still, fook it, i am going to the pub tomorrow night as per the normal plan! Job done and apparently the police are buying!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2008 6:59:43 GMT -6
Well a couple in Melbourne kidnapped a baby from the arms of her mother and they would have been rather suprised when it was reported in the media that the child was the daughter of a career criminal
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Post by ltdc on Nov 19, 2008 10:24:11 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ? well this is the pot calling the kettle black. you've said many times that the DP does not deter others and therefore is uneffective. you've been asked many times to explain how prison, probation, parole, fines ect.ect. deter others from committing future crimes and you never answer. you cannot play the deterence card if there is no deterence from other punishments. so if there is no type of punishment that will help the next child what's YOUR answer? warm hugs? pony up, let's hear it
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Tim S
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Post by Tim S on Nov 20, 2008 1:01:18 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ? well this is the pot calling the kettle black. you've said many times that the DP does not deter others and therefore is uneffective. you've been asked many times to explain how prison, probation, parole, fines ect.ect. deter others from committing future crimes and you never answer. you cannot play the deterence card if there is no deterence from other punishments. so if there is no type of punishment that will help the next child what's YOUR answer? warm hugs? pony up, let's hear it I presume that you have read about this poor child. And not just in the worlds worst newspapre that was quoted here. Here is a classic case of socialworkers not daring to take the final step and take the child. Remember that some where and some where not. And why did they not dare to take the child ? That has to be answered first...then you can start wondering about punishment if any. Heads will role but presumably what is needed is better education and better funding. Sorry but jail and the dp does not help here. I presume also that you realise in these threads I am not talking about the morons who caused this little boys death but the people who had the power to prevent it. Those who hurt him can rot for life.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Nov 20, 2008 1:30:16 GMT -6
I would not say that the DP is too good, but I do believe that they should face some form of torture before execution. The method of torture and death that should be inflicted upon them I can't say, but it should be something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 1:55:55 GMT -6
omg-omg I am speechless,caring has got to come from home if the parent dont give 2 shytes about the child they are behind the 8 ball from the start,-someone must of detected something was a miss-neighbours-friends-,community's need to be more vigil when it comes to children we need to look out for eaqch other,because if the parents dont care about the kids,who will.you need to report child abuse if you suspect it if it saves even one life its a victory.
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Post by lawrence on Nov 20, 2008 2:59:49 GMT -6
Porky there are apparently 30,000 children on the at risk registra in the Uk and this WILL happen again trust me. I will tell you why. I. Social Services are basically a Politically correct operation who for some reason always believe that the child is better off with the mother. 2. Social services are under funded, over worked and underpayed. 3. Social services need to be totally over hauled and reorganised. 4. Welfare Services, Doctors, teachers and Police do not communicate in a way that is pro active towards defending children and assisting in helping social workers. 5. The Government will and do always spend a lot of money in a enquiry making a lot of noise when these cases reach the public domain and because of the above 4 points absolutely nothing will change.
Its all quite sad and pathetic really. I only hope that they will be placed in the general prison environement, but something tells me because of the duty of care they will be placed in solitary confinement until it dies down. They will get some though, even amongst the scum of the earth there is a code you dont break and child killers and paedos suffer big time if gotten too.
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Post by Felix2 on Nov 20, 2008 3:35:37 GMT -6
well this is the pot calling the kettle black. you've said many times that the DP does not deter others and therefore is uneffective. you've been asked many times to explain how prison, probation, parole, fines ect.ect. deter others from committing future crimes and you never answer. you cannot play the deterence card if there is no deterence from other punishments. so if there is no type of punishment that will help the next child what's YOUR answer? warm hugs? pony up, let's hear it I presume that you have read about this poor child. And not just in the worlds worst newspapre that was quoted here. Here is a classic case of socialworkers not daring to take the final step and take the child. Remember that some where and some where not. And why did they not dare to take the child ? That has to be answered first...then you can start wondering about punishment if any. Heads will role but presumably what is needed is better education and better funding. Sorry but jail and the dp does not help here. I presume also that you realise in these threads I am not talking about the morons who caused this little boys death but the people who had the power to prevent it. Those who hurt him can rot for life. Fromm my reading of it the SW made a recommendation he be removed but was over-ruled by her bosses. Also, his appts with doctors did not produce evidence that would have made such a removal safe legally
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 3:38:42 GMT -6
Porky there are apparently 30,000 children on the at risk registra in the Uk and this WILL happen again trust me. I will tell you why. I. Social Services are basically a Politically correct operation who for some reason always believe that the child is better off with the mother. 2. Social services are under funded, over worked and underpayed. 3. Social services need to be totally over hauled and reorganised. 4. Welfare Services, Doctors, teachers and Police do not communicate in a way that is pro active towards defending children and assisting in helping social workers. 5. The Government will and do always spend a lot of money in a enquiry making a lot of noise when these cases reach the public domain and because of the above 4 points absolutely nothing will change. Its all quite sad and pathetic really. I only hope that they will be placed in the general prison environement, but something tells me because of the duty of care they will be placed in solitary confinement until it dies down. They will get some though, even amongst the scum of the earth there is a code you dont break and child killers and paedos suffer big time if gotten too. If thats the case lawrence children have no chance,its ludicras,someone needs to stand up & take the ball up overhaul the red tape & take children of parents where is needed no mucking around,if a child is in danger,go in hard bang heads get to the bottom of the problem,dont throw money around on inquires to find out where they can cover there azzes,overhaul the system put the proper people in places do the training build the bridges where the proper people can communicate as one when it comes to kids there should be no corners cut,they are our future leaders,our doctors & lawyers.
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Post by lawrence on Nov 20, 2008 6:05:00 GMT -6
I understand what your saying Felix i really do but i just cant go that far and heres my reason. What happens if a parent or parents have been falsely accused of harming there child say from an overzealous teacher or doctor, its totally innocent and the parents get a social services visit. i was listening to a hard hitting and emotional debate on 5 Live about this saturday night whilst driving home, the Nicky Noland show and some of the horror stories you hear from parents who have had their children taken away because of the policy of "going in hard" as you say. One mother never saw her daughter again for 16 years. thats just one example. There were others where social service repsaid its illegal to go into any house un annouced and take children and then you hear the parents of children taken away saying the total opposite and the parents have no redress and what leagal rights they have are far and few between. Its wrong to handle it like that. i do feel that children should be listened too more and parents questioned no mater how hurtful the qwuestions, the child has toi come first but not the way you described. I could have lydia taken away from me because of a phonecall by say someone i hurt or upset or fired. They could ring up and say i suspect that i am hurting my child or say i saw the parents really smack their child and they live at this address and thats all that is needed. Its scary really.
Nope they should have a overhaul absolutely and work together and work together regularly. They should be funded properly and paid a decent wage and if confronted with aggression the police should act immediately. Social Services have had a bad deal over the last 20 years and some scary cases have arisen but they shouldnt be hung out to dry. Get rid of the PC and start doing what they are supposed to do, protect the vulnerable and children. Thats what i want to see. Ive said it once, twice and i will say it again, not all are fit to be parents. If people cant take responsibility for kids they should not have them and some people need help and education. if they cant cope then their children should be taken into care and only when the parents are deemed responsible enough should their children be returned.
To me that makes sense. Its hardcore but what else can be done.
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Post by Felix2 on Nov 20, 2008 6:41:22 GMT -6
I understand what your saying Felix i really do but i just cant go that far and heres my reason. What happens if a parent or parents have been falsely accused of harming there child say from an overzealous teacher or doctor, its totally innocent and the parents get a social services visit. i was listening to a hard hitting and emotional debate on 5 Live about this saturday night whilst driving home, the Nicky Noland show and some of the horror stories you hear from parents who have had their children taken away because of the policy of "going in hard" as you say. One mother never saw her daughter again for 16 years. thats just one example. There were others where social service repsaid its illegal to go into any house un annouced and take children and then you hear the parents of children taken away saying the total opposite and the parents have no redress and what leagal rights they have are far and few between. Its wrong to handle it like that. i do feel that children should be listened too more and parents questioned no mater how hurtful the qwuestions, the child has toi come first but not the way you described. I could have lydia taken away from me because of a phonecall by say someone i hurt or upset or fired. They could ring up and say i suspect that i am hurting my child or say i saw the parents really smack their child and they live at this address and thats all that is needed. Its scary really. Nope they should have a overhaul absolutely and work together and work together regularly. They should be funded properly and paid a decent wage and if confronted with aggression the police should act immediately. Social Services have had a bad deal over the last 20 years and some scary cases have arisen but they shouldnt be hung out to dry. Get rid of the PC and start doing what they are supposed to do, protect the vulnerable and children. Thats what i want to see. Ive said it once, twice and i will say it again, not all are fit to be parents. If people cant take responsibility for kids they should not have them and some people need help and education. if they cant cope then their children should be taken into care and only when the parents are deemed responsible enough should their children be returned. To me that makes sense. Its hardcore but what else can be done. Thats the toher extreme and its equally wrony and some years back resulted in amny innocent parents being labelled and suffering for kids and parents. I think what you originally said about proper resources is correct but the real question is how much do we really want to spend on keeping vulnerable children safe. Funding will always eb the bottom line to some extent
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Post by lawrence on Nov 20, 2008 7:06:21 GMT -6
Like i said, sad and pathetic really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 9:17:35 GMT -6
I'm shocked you can say 'fuckers' And, I'm wondering (in your view) when DP isn't 'too good' for these fuckers?
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Post by lawrence on Nov 20, 2008 9:29:06 GMT -6
The lodger who inflicted most of the suffering because of his obsession with torture and pain i would and could quite easily execute the bastard Lynne trust me. they are Fuckers. I'm sorry but what i cant understand is the mother just stood by and watched it happen and did nothing, nothing at all to stop the pain that child was going through. Nobody knows really whats going on behind closed doors and thats scary. People you think are the pillars of society are normally the ones with the skeletons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 10:21:17 GMT -6
The lodger who inflicted most of the suffering because of his obsession with torture and pain i would and could quite easily execute the bastard Lynne trust me. they are Fuckers. I'm sorry but what i cant understand is the mother just stood by and watched it happen and did nothing, nothing at all to stop the pain that child was going through. Nobody knows really whats going on behind closed doors and thats scary. People you think are the pillars of society are normally the ones with the skeletons. Yeah, I know your view... child tormentors are worse than mere murderers and should get DP (whereas murderers shouldn't)... that doesn't explain why DP is 'too good' for fuckers of the highest order, but not for fuckers who merely kill their victims. Why not just plop them all on an island and let them do to each other ~ well ~~ what they do? Survival of those who think they're not so bad. Oh, yeah, that's been done ~~ sending
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Post by ltdc on Nov 20, 2008 11:26:32 GMT -6
well this is the pot calling the kettle black. you've said many times that the DP does not deter others and therefore is uneffective. you've been asked many times to explain how prison, probation, parole, fines ect.ect. deter others from committing future crimes and you never answer. you cannot play the deterence card if there is no deterence from other punishments. Those who hurt him can rot for life. and I presume you believe "rotting for life" will indeed deter others from committing these crimes, since you do not believe DP will.
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Post by me1 on Nov 20, 2008 12:12:12 GMT -6
Right well thats got the revenge bit over and done with. And as the dp does not exist in England there is no point in brining it up here. On the other hand Mark says that the " dp is way too good for these *******" Interesting that prison is a worse punishment than the dp. Now what should we do to avoid this happening again and again? Because making loud noises here and taking the morale high ground does not help one single bit. I agree. Apparently the identity of the accused has been revealed on facebook and other sites even though there is a court order preventing it. Basically they are trying to stir up a lynch mob and get them murdered in prison. It's quite sad when society has to stoop that low.
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Post by me1 on Nov 20, 2008 12:14:17 GMT -6
Come on Mark I'm calling your bluff. Being tough here is not going to help the next child. So what is ? The failings are down to the local council and doctors not spotting that something is seriously wrong. Unless we get competant people in power then nothing will change. the stupid idiots will miss the next child and the one after that. This council has a history of missing things like this. See the Victoria Climibie case. Here we go. Lets find someone to blame. We would'nt be english if we did'nt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2008 13:49:43 GMT -6
Yes, the death penalty IS too good. That is one of the reasons that I do not approve of it. I the other day (from a perhaps unreliable source) that the average life expectancy of a pedophile in prison is something like one year. I have seen an example of this in my own town: a local business owner was put into prison on charges of pedophilia and only lasted several months.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2008 18:20:07 GMT -6
No, just do it quick.
Hands, cap, noose, pin, push, drop.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2008 12:45:04 GMT -6
As for the mudslime doctor who tried to blow some of us up,he should be made to share a cell with a big,hairy,bacon sandwich addicted guy called Ben Dover
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Post by Lisa on Dec 18, 2008 13:15:22 GMT -6
My God, I had to stop reading after the first torture described on the list. Producers of the most gruesome of horror movies couldn't come up with the torture inflicted on that poor baby. What the hell is wrong with people? Seriously, I wish someone could tell me. I knew not to click on that link.
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