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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 6, 2009 19:32:06 GMT -6
Approximately how many people here are anti against everybody that is pro? I can tell you that this argument is losing steam fast.
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Post by Elric of Melnibone on Apr 6, 2009 19:38:42 GMT -6
Depends on the anti. Several on here I consider good friends and companions.
Others that have came over from pto and ccrap and tried to start stuff we ALL gang up on. Our anti's have respect for the families and victims. Those from pto and ccrap dont.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 6, 2009 19:42:38 GMT -6
Tell me more about this horrible site.
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Post by D.E.E. on Apr 6, 2009 19:53:31 GMT -6
Tell me more about this horrible site. Do a search for CCADP and you should find it.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on Apr 6, 2009 20:03:18 GMT -6
I did not argue that the founders were against it. But times have changed, and now the DP *is* unusual. Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? So Japan and South Korea are not civilized?
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on Apr 6, 2009 20:15:42 GMT -6
Why don't you do us a favor belsogno and explain why executing a criminal is cruel and unusual while other acts of state-sanctioned violence like imprisonment is not? Anyone can rant like you have, it takes intelligence to argue a point based on facts and logic.
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Post by Donnie on Apr 6, 2009 22:01:54 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, It is hard for me to imagine that you are really so ignorant as to believe the above statement. The governor of New Mexico, a liberal Democrat, recently justified the abolition of the death penalty based on his assertion that life imprisonment was more cruel. There are, of course many other forms of punishment that are more cruel than the death penalty.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 6, 2009 22:51:22 GMT -6
I see the author of this ridiculous post has disappeared damn I was looking for more from this one Perhaps he/she has followed their own advice and gone and joined the taliban
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 2:55:01 GMT -6
Friend, it is easy to simply condemn an argument without actually arguing against its merits. That would require intelligence... I'm not here to pick a fight, in fact I'd rather not fight. I do get angry about this issue though, and I'm not above provocation. Have you thought of joining the Taliban? They'd appreciate someone with your raw anger and senselessly violent temperament. Why don't you do us a favor belsogno and explain why executing a criminal is cruel and unusual while other acts of state-sanctioned violence like imprisonment is not? Anyone can rant like you have, it takes intelligence to argue a point based on facts and logic. don't quote ihallhou and ask me to argue on that. Cruel? DP isn't cruel but many of its supporter are Unusual? It's so much usal even in the so called "democracies" So please let's put aside your constitution amandment there is no point there to support or to fight capital punishment
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Apr 7, 2009 5:14:27 GMT -6
Looks like some one started the argument and then left the room. Figures, after a couple of quick lines and jabs; poof, out the door.
ihalhou, that was not raw anger, no where near it. That was dismissing you out of hand as well as your inane comment concerning joining the Taliban, if it was indeed meant for me.
But, these comments are directed at you; I resent the fact that you dropped by and made bold remarks without the courtesy of an introduction. No, you share the mentality of some drug gang member, drive-by shoot up the place and leave.
Feel free to engage in serious debate, if you are capable of that. Otherwise, consider you mission accomplished and move on.
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Post by Kay on Apr 7, 2009 5:23:34 GMT -6
Have you thought of joining the Taliban? They'd appreciate someone with your raw anger and senselessly violent temperament. No but several of us have been in US uniform and a lot of us have Children who are fighting them. Next stupid question. Strange, I've met DEE twice, and I've never seen him display raw anger, nor senseless violence. And by the way, I'm an anti who raised a son that's fighting the taliban.
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Post by furoraceltica on Apr 7, 2009 5:24:27 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it)
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Post by Kay on Apr 7, 2009 5:28:43 GMT -6
If you believe that the death penalty is a deterrent, then there's a modicum of truth in the original question, it does indeed seem ridiculous to kill to prove that killing is wrong.
However, if you view the death penalty as simply punishment for the crime of murder, there's really nothing to debate.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on Apr 7, 2009 5:37:12 GMT -6
Why don't you do us a favor belsogno and explain why executing a criminal is cruel and unusual while other acts of state-sanctioned violence like imprisonment is not? Anyone can rant like you have, it takes intelligence to argue a point based on facts and logic. don't quote ihallhou and ask me to argue on that. Cruel? DP isn't cruel but many of its supporter are Unusual? It's so much usal even in the so called "democracies" So please let's put aside your constitution amandment there is no point there to support or to fight capital punishment You should rewrite this post, it makes no sense. Once again, these are statements, not arguments. "Cruel? DP isn't cruel but many of its supporter are" How so and why? "Unusual? It's so much usal even in the so called "democracies"" I can only guess that you are saying other democracies don't use it so we shouldn't. It shows you don't understand the constitutional definition of cruel and unusual, because it does not refer to the use of the punishment in other countries but among the jurisdictions here in US. If it is unusual in the US I suppose you can argue it should be abolished.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Apr 7, 2009 5:45:30 GMT -6
And by the way, I'm an anti who raised a son that's fighting the taliban. Semper Fi, Kay!
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 7:39:18 GMT -6
However, if you view the death penalty as simply punishment for the crime of murder, there's really nothing to debate. agree 100% Again it deals with the feeling of one people that views death as the right retribution for a murder.
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Post by D.E.E. on Apr 7, 2009 8:36:05 GMT -6
Why don't you do us a favor belsogno and explain why executing a criminal is cruel and unusual while other acts of state-sanctioned violence like imprisonment is not? Anyone can rant like you have, it takes intelligence to argue a point based on facts and logic. don't quote ihallhou and ask me to argue on that. Cruel? DP isn't cruel but many of its supporter are Unusual? It's so much usal even in the so called "democracies" So please let's put aside your constitution amandment there is no point there to support or to fight capital punishment Put aside our Constitution? Maybe your country does that ours tries hard not to and when it does happen we usually work of fixing that to get back in line with the Constitution. Now as I said it has already passed our Constitutional muster by having the Supreme Court of the US look at it and say it was neither Cruel or Unusual. Your argument has no merit in this country, if you are going to argue against something based on our laws maybe you should learn something of them first, if not STFU.
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 10:33:43 GMT -6
I think that 2 words (cruel and unusual) are too generic to be pro or anti. If you want to argue with me on Capital Punishment you have to move from your loved SCOUTS and come to discuss on ethics, philosophy, and ages of history, culture and religion. Have you got arguments? Well, welcome. Your only argument is Scalia&Co ruling? Well, nevermind. The debate on DP has been lasting for two thousands years, dating back to Romans (caesar and cato had one on the oppurtunity to sentence Catiline, if i can find a good translation I will post it). So none of your opinion is original and each point has already been discussed ages before US supreme court. I know around nothing about your laws, i admit it D.E.E., but since capital punishment doesn't belong to you and to your law, i can debate on DP itself
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Post by D.E.E. on Apr 7, 2009 10:51:28 GMT -6
I think that 2 words (cruel and unusual) are too generic to be pro or anti. If you want to argue with me on Capital Punishment you have to move from your loved SCOUTS and come to discuss on ethics, philosophy, and ages of history, culture and religion. Have you got arguments? Well, welcome. Your only argument is Scalia&Co ruling? Well, nevermind. The debate on DP has been lasting for two thousands years, dating back to Romans (caesar and cato had one on the oppurtunity to sentence Catiline, if i can find a good translation I will post it). So none of your opinion is original and each point has already been discussed ages before US supreme court. I know around nothing about your laws, i admit it D.E.E., but since capital punishment doesn't belong to you and to your law, i can debate on DP itself Yep but do not tell me to suspend the Constitution or you are dealing with our laws. You also aske a combat veteran of the US if they had thought of joining the Taliban. That is not only insulting it is stupid and it makes all of your other points moot. So far I have not seen a single question from you or by you that address the DP in anything other than just plain old BS. If you do not understand BS I will privide a translation for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 11:57:51 GMT -6
Let’s see… couldn’t possibly be the very strict gun laws in Japan. Or the fact Japan doesn’t count ‘an attempt to injure, but which accidently causes death as homicide’. Or maybe, ”Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority”. I wonder why the suicide rate would be double that of the US… and why so many of their (reported) homicides (17% according to this) are children of suicidal parents. www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htmAn interesting theory about Japan’s low murder rates ~ when police don't know who the suspect is, they make the victim's cause of death a natural one. So, even with their supposedly low murder rates, Japan may actually be the best place in the world to get away with murder. www.verumserum.com/?p=1518You're right. It just doesn't make sense to compare the murder rates of various countries, does it? "Legal historian Richard Maxwell Brown has argued that Americans have more homicides because English law insists an individual should retreat when attacked, whereas Americans believe they have the right to stand their ground and kill in self-defense. Americans do have more latitude to protect themselves, in keeping with traditional common law standards, but that would have had less significance before England's more restrictive policy was established in 1967.
The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible."www.reason.com/news/show/28582.htmlExactly. What's the point in comparing one country's homicide rates to another's, when what's deemed 'homicide' isn't equal to begin with?
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Apr 7, 2009 12:12:13 GMT -6
You're right. It just doesn't make sense to compare the murder rates of various countries, does it? "Legal historian Richard Maxwell Brown has argued that Americans have more homicides because English law insists an individual should retreat when attacked, whereas Americans believe they have the right to stand their ground and kill in self-defense. Americans do have more latitude to protect themselves, in keeping with traditional common law standards, but that would have had less significance before England's more restrictive policy was established in 1967. The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible."www.reason.com/news/show/28582.htmlExactly. What's the point in comparing one country's homicide rates to another's, when what's deemed 'homicide' isn't equal to begin with? Thank you for the numbers! Finally, real facts to rebut the argument.
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 12:18:41 GMT -6
D.E.E. you are mistaking me and ihallhou, like mst3k4evur did. Me and ihallhou are not the same user
i would have NEVER told you such stupid words.
I am here just on DP, i am not here to insult anybody.
And ... what's "BS"? I still find hard to solve all your slang
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Post by Californian on Apr 7, 2009 12:42:59 GMT -6
And ... what's "BS"? I still find hard to solve all your slang
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 12:44:28 GMT -6
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 7, 2009 17:50:53 GMT -6
Can somebody please show this moron the door? Or better yet the broad side of their shoe?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 18:00:06 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it), it is those who uphold it, including supreme court justices voting in its favor, who should be going to jail for violating the constitution. We all know this, but in our spitefullness and constitutional inability to be honest, we seek to exact revenge by murdering the people who murder (if they are in fact guilty)
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Post by ltdc on Apr 7, 2009 18:01:33 GMT -6
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Post by D.E.E. on Apr 7, 2009 18:03:08 GMT -6
D.E.E. you are mistaking me and ihallhou, like mst3k4evur did. Me and ihallhou are not the same user i would have NEVER told you such stupid words. I am here just on DP, i am not here to insult anybody. And ... what's "BS"? I still find hard to solve all your slang You are right on the Taliban sorry about that, but you did say the line about putting aside our Constitution. That is something that we can not and will not do. It is the basis for all our laws including the DP and it has on more than one occassion reafirmed the DP as being Constitutionally Sound.
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Post by Kay on Apr 7, 2009 18:12:45 GMT -6
And by the way, I'm an anti who raised a son that's fighting the taliban. Semper Fi, Kay! Back at you kind Sir I guess I didn't do a very good job of imbuing my anti values
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Post by Stormyweather on Apr 7, 2009 18:24:21 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it), it is those who uphold it, including supreme court justices voting in its favor, who should be going to jail for violating the constitution. We all know this, but in our spitefullness and constitutional inability to be honest, we seek to exact revenge by murdering the people who murder (if they are in fact guilty) I smell a returning rat. Who are you really?
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