Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 13:04:51 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it), it is those who uphold it, including supreme court justices voting in its favor, who should be going to jail for violating the constitution. We all know this, but in our spitefullness and constitutional inability to be honest, we seek to exact revenge by murdering the people who murder (if they are in fact guilty)
|
|
|
Post by Elric of Melnibone on Apr 6, 2009 13:14:58 GMT -6
Can you type in English? What exactly are you saying?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 13:18:27 GMT -6
Basically, the DP is both cruel and unusual. Since the constitution lays out that the gov't shall not impose punishments that are either cruel or unusual, the DP is unconstitutional on two counts. Those that keep the DP actively "legal" are breaking the law, and should thus go to jail.
|
|
|
Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Apr 6, 2009 13:20:03 GMT -6
It is called a load of super-liberal tripe aimed a stirring up this group of haters.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 13:24:34 GMT -6
It is called the constitution of the United States. And, basic human morality
|
|
|
Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Apr 6, 2009 13:27:47 GMT -6
It's called your interpretation of the constitution, or are you SCOTUS judge perhaps?
Take your lame argument and go unless you have something intelligent to add here. You do the anti cause no service with this pitiful display.
|
|
|
Post by Lisa on Apr 6, 2009 13:35:14 GMT -6
It is called the constitution of the United States. And, basic human morality The framers of the Constitution supported the death penalty, and in fact constructed laws in order to carry it out, so to claim that cruel and unusual punishment refers to the death penalty is ridiculous.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 13:35:17 GMT -6
Friend, it is easy to simply condemn an argument without actually arguing against its merits. That would require intelligence... I'm not here to pick a fight, in fact I'd rather not fight. I do get angry about this issue though, and I'm not above provocation.
Have you thought of joining the Taliban? They'd appreciate someone with your raw anger and senselessly violent temperament.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 13:37:32 GMT -6
I did not argue that the founders were against it. But times have changed, and now the DP *is* unusual. Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP?
|
|
|
Post by Elric of Melnibone on Apr 6, 2009 13:52:19 GMT -6
Ok, according to you, the use of capitol punishment is "Cruel and unusual."
Let us think of tommy lynn sells. He murdered a 13 year old girl, asleep in her own bed, in her bedroom, in her parents home. He also raped her and attempted to kill her 10 year old cousin. He has had a trial, a lawyer, and years of appeals in courts. But where were her rights? Where were her appeals? Where was her lawyer? Any mitigating defense against this killer? She had none, just the anger of a murderer who killed her.
So tell me, in light of that, which is the more "Cruel and unusual?"
|
|
|
Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 6, 2009 14:01:58 GMT -6
Youre from PTO aren't you
|
|
|
Post by Elric of Melnibone on Apr 6, 2009 14:02:43 GMT -6
Fresh meat for the Beast.
|
|
|
Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 6, 2009 14:08:16 GMT -6
Prisoners get a much more humane death than most of their victims do anyway. How is that cruel and usual? Its 3 shots which takes their lives away painlessly. I can't say that for the victim.
|
|
|
Post by Lisa on Apr 6, 2009 14:11:25 GMT -6
I did not argue that the founders were against it. But times have changed, and now the DP *is* unusual. Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? It gives me no pause whatsoever, and if you're going to cite the Constitution get the phrase right. It's "cruel and unusual." If it wasn't cruel then, it's certainly not cruel now. And as far as "unusual" goes, the Constitution was ratified in 1789. Year - Total # executions 1790 - 14 1797 - 12 1801 - 11 1804 - 8 1810 - 11 1811 - 12 1815 - 10 Population of the U.S. in 1800 was 5,300,000. Executions didn't take place everyday in those days either.
|
|
|
Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 6, 2009 14:12:59 GMT -6
They barely take place now and with New Jersey and New Mexico wimping out on us....
|
|
|
Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 6, 2009 14:17:16 GMT -6
Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? What is your definition of a civilized country? Japan, for instance, is widely regarded as one of the most advanced nations of earth. Naturally, the Japanese practice capital punishment.
|
|
|
Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 6, 2009 14:18:02 GMT -6
And if I can say, China has a van that does lethal injections.
|
|
|
Post by Lisa on Apr 6, 2009 14:21:18 GMT -6
Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? What is your definition of a civilized country? Japan, for instance, is widely regarded as one of the most advanced nations of earth. Naturally, the Japanese practice capital punishment. .....and Japan has a much lower murder rate than most so called "civilized" nations without the DP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 16:43:11 GMT -6
Let’s see… couldn’t possibly be the very strict gun laws in Japan. Or the fact Japan doesn’t count ‘an attempt to injure, but which accidently causes death as homicide’. Or maybe, ”Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority”. I wonder why the suicide rate would be double that of the US… and why so many of their (reported) homicides (17% according to this) are children of suicidal parents. www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htmAn interesting theory about Japan’s low murder rates ~ when police don't know who the suspect is, they make the victim's cause of death a natural one. So, even with their supposedly low murder rates, Japan may actually be the best place in the world to get away with murder. www.verumserum.com/?p=1518
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 16:50:17 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it), it is those who uphold it, including supreme court justices voting in its favor, who should be going to jail for violating the constitution. We all know this, but in our spitefullness and constitutional inability to be honest, we seek to exact revenge by murdering the people who murder (if they are in fact guilty) Yeah well, it's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. I'd rather (for example) have my toenails ripped outa me with pliars than a lethal injection, but we consider the former to be cruel and unusual, and not the latter. BTW, murder is the ILLEGAL taking of life. In the US, execution, in all its legal glory, therefore, isn't murder. Call it killing.
|
|
|
Post by Lisa on Apr 6, 2009 17:27:33 GMT -6
Let’s see… couldn’t possibly be the very strict gun laws in Japan. Or the fact Japan doesn’t count ‘an attempt to injure, but which accidently causes death as homicide’. Or maybe, ”Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority”. I wonder why the suicide rate would be double that of the US… and why so many of their (reported) homicides (17% according to this) are children of suicidal parents. www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/Japan-Gun-Control-and-People-Control.htmAn interesting theory about Japan’s low murder rates ~ when police don't know who the suspect is, they make the victim's cause of death a natural one. So, even with their supposedly low murder rates, Japan may actually be the best place in the world to get away with murder. www.verumserum.com/?p=1518You're right. It just doesn't make sense to compare the murder rates of various countries, does it? "Legal historian Richard Maxwell Brown has argued that Americans have more homicides because English law insists an individual should retreat when attacked, whereas Americans believe they have the right to stand their ground and kill in self-defense. Americans do have more latitude to protect themselves, in keeping with traditional common law standards, but that would have had less significance before England's more restrictive policy was established in 1967.
The murder rates of the U.S. and U.K. are also affected by differences in the way each counts homicides. The FBI asks police to list every homicide as murder, even if the case isn't subsequently prosecuted or proceeds on a lesser charge, making the U.S. numbers as high as possible. By contrast, the English police "massage down" the homicide statistics, tracking each case through the courts and removing it if it is reduced to a lesser charge or determined to be an accident or self-defense, making the English numbers as low as possible."www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
|
|
|
Post by ltdc on Apr 6, 2009 17:55:10 GMT -6
Since the Death Penalty is both the ultimately cruel punishment, and absolutely unusual (meaning we're the only western country that has it), it is those who uphold it, including supreme court justices voting in its favor, who should be going to jail for violating the constitution. We all know this, but in our spitefullness and constitutional inability to be honest, we seek to exact revenge by murdering the people who murder (if they are in fact guilty) bet we can thank you for Obama also.
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Apr 6, 2009 18:17:14 GMT -6
Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? 1. Assuming facts not in evidence (as well as erroneous,) and 2. Doesn't bother me a bit. Next question?
|
|
|
Post by ltdc on Apr 6, 2009 18:22:31 GMT -6
Does it not give you pause that the US is the only civilized country that still has the DP? makes you just want to bust out and proudly sing the star spanged banner, doesn't it? ;D
|
|
|
Post by belsogno on Apr 6, 2009 18:24:23 GMT -6
So tell me, in light of that, which is the more "Cruel and unusual?" this is a challenge which no state should be on. Who is more cruel, who is more unusual? the killing of a criminal (murder) COMPARED to the killing of the state (justice, retribution,deterrence,ecc ecc). The Death of the Inmate COMPARED to the one of the victims. What's more cruel? what's more brutal? Should i feel better becouse we give them a human death that they didn't to their victims? I hate this word: compared, coz i have nothing to do with them and don't want to challenge them on that. I shouldn't behave and kill like them. Point Support DP all the time but pls stop to use the word "compare" that offends 2000 years of civilization relax and enjoy to stay along with Japan
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 18:44:19 GMT -6
There is a difference between your little poll question and sentencing someone to death for committing murder.
You talk and preach about cruel and unusual punishment. What about the victim that is now dead no thanks to someone that took a life for petty reasons? Huh? What about their family members and friends? Ever think of what they go through? That is more cruel and unusual than the United States' justice system.
Why are many of you antis from Europe so fixated on the United States? Other countries execute people for lesser crimes than murder.
|
|
|
Post by belsogno on Apr 6, 2009 19:14:50 GMT -6
Why are many of you antis from Europe so fixated on the United States? Other countries execute people for lesser crimes than murder. coz we can't stand the difference that involves the highest levels reached in the economy, politic, democracy, everything and the brutality of the DR. We expect medieval practices to be performed by any country of the third world, not by the world leader for sure
|
|
|
Post by D.E.E. on Apr 6, 2009 19:24:21 GMT -6
Why are many of you antis from Europe so fixated on the United States? Other countries execute people for lesser crimes than murder. coz we can't stand the difference that involves the highest levels reached in the economy, politic, democracy, everything and the brutality of the DR. We expect medieval practices to be performed by any country of the third world, not by the world leader for sure Well then it is a good thing that we do not practice medieval methods. I think Europe should start executing murderers in a modern method.
|
|
|
Post by D.E.E. on Apr 6, 2009 19:27:52 GMT -6
Basically, the DP is both cruel and unusual. Since the constitution lays out that the gov't shall not impose punishments that are either cruel or unusual, the DP is unconstitutional on two counts. Those that keep the DP actively "legal" are breaking the law, and should thus go to jail. Sorry it is not Cruel or unusual, and has passed Constitutional muster according to SCOUTS. Have you found a way to over rule them?
|
|
|
Post by D.E.E. on Apr 6, 2009 19:29:14 GMT -6
Have you thought of joining the Taliban? They'd appreciate someone with your raw anger and senselessly violent temperament. No but several of us have been in US uniform and a lot of us have Children who are fighting them. Next stupid question.
|
|