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Post by FredII on Nov 6, 2005 13:43:49 GMT -6
Hello everyone, my name is Fred. I've sent in an application to be a member of this forum but it has yet to be accepted. I don't know how long it normally takes, but I thought it might actually be because I'm 17. (Underage or something)
I may be young, but I have done tons of research on the DP. Which is why I am Pro-Death Penalty. My reasons are much the same as all that other Pro's have. But also they lie in the arguments of that Anti's that sway me more to the Pro side. That is where one of my questions lie:
1.) Sometimes Anti's seem to confuse and use wrongly the words 'murder' and 'kill.' I was under the impression that a 'murder' was an unlawful, premeditated killing of a human by a human. Need I define kill? Sometimes Anti's say that the DP is 'Killing a killer', or 'murdering a murderer.' The word choice seems wrong to me because a murderer is never just a killer, and likewise the court system would never allow itself to become a murderer. (Does the jury not eliminate the possibilty of a premeditated decision?) Clearly 'murder' and 'kill' are not the same thing. I Guess this is not a question; a comment I guess, that some clarification on would be excellent.
2.) Does anyone know the actual number of people who are given LWOP and actually die in prison?
3.) What exactly is an appeal? How do prisoners make one? What is the purpose of them. What are possible outcomes of appeals? (Reduced sentences, pardon, parole...etc, etc) How easy is it to make an appeal?
Finally, I saw a thread asking about what your kids thought of the DP. I am on the debate team at my high school, and If you're interrested, a majority of kids are againts the DP. Most of the time though it's because they don't really know anything about it.
I appreciate and thank in advance any who replys/answer my questions.
Sincerely,
Fred
PS. Hope to talk to you all soon in the main Forum!
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Post by josephdphillips on Nov 6, 2005 15:21:21 GMT -6
Hello everyone, my name is Fred. I've sent in an application to be a member of this forum but it has yet to be accepted. I don't know how long it normally takes, but I thought it might actually be because I'm 17. (Underage or something) I may be young, but I have done tons of research on the DP. Which is why I am Pro-Death Penalty. My reasons are much the same as all that other Pro's have. But also they lie in the arguments of that Anti's that sway me more to the Pro side. That is where one of my questions lie: 1.) Sometimes Anti's seem to confuse and use wrongly the words 'murder' and 'kill.' I was under the impression that a 'murder' was an unlawful, premeditated killing of a human by a human. Need I define kill? Sometimes Anti's say that the DP is 'Killing a killer', or 'murdering a murderer.' The word choice seems wrong to me because a murderer is never just a killer, and likewise the court system would never allow itself to become a murderer. (Does the jury not eliminate the possibilty of a premeditated decision?) Clearly 'murder' and 'kill' are not the same thing. I Guess this is not a question; a comment I guess, that some clarification on would be excellent. 2.) Does anyone know the actual number of people who are given LWOP and actually die in prison? 3.) What exactly is an appeal? How do prisoners make one? What is the purpose of them. What are possible outcomes of appeals? (Reduced sentences, pardon, parole...etc, etc) How easy is it to make an appeal? Finally, I saw a thread asking about what your kids thought of the DP. I am on the debate team at my high school, and If you're interrested, a majority of kids are againts the DP. Most of the time though it's because they don't really know anything about it. I appreciate and thank in advance any who replys/answer my questions. Sincerely, Fred PS. Hope to talk to you all soon in the main Forum! Charlene's just busy. Don't worry about it. You'll get accepted. |
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Post by Anony+ on Nov 14, 2005 6:40:46 GMT -6
1.) Sometimes Anti's seem to confuse and use wrongly the words 'murder' and 'kill.' I was under the impression that a 'murder' was an unlawful, premeditated killing of a human by a human. Need I define kill? Sometimes Anti's say that the DP is 'Killing a killer', or 'murdering a murderer.' The word choice seems wrong to me because a murderer is never just a killer, and likewise the court system would never allow itself to become a murderer. (Does the jury not eliminate the possibilty of a premeditated decision?) Clearly 'murder' and 'kill' are not the same thing. I Guess this is not a question; a comment I guess, that some clarification on would be excellent. Fred, welcome to the board. You will find that as you get older and your peers actually examine the facts supporting an opinion, their opinion will change. I remember that I debated against abortion when I was in 9th grade. But I have since grown up, lived a lot more, and my opinion is not nearly as idealistic as it was as a teenager. It sounds like you have already done some of that growing up, whereas your peers most likely have not. To answer your first question, a murderer IS always a killer, but a killer (in the case of a legal execution) is not always a murderer. Because, by definition, a murder is an unlawful taking of another's life without justification or any other circumstance that might make it manslaughter. An execution is a lawful killing, so its not murder. And yes, some antis try to play with words, but to call a legalized execution murder is inaccurate. 2.) Does anyone know the actual number of people who are given LWOP and actually die in prison? Since LWOP is a relatively recent development in punishment options in most states, there probably aren't too many that have "lived out" their sentence quite yet. 3.) What exactly is an appeal? How do prisoners make one? What is the purpose of them. What are possible outcomes of appeals? (Reduced sentences, pardon, parole...etc, etc) How easy is it to make an appeal? An appeal is a request for a higher court to review lower court decisions. Prisoners simply file pleadings with the higher court and delineate what decisions they want the higher court to review. Generally speaking, appellate courts cannot reduce sentences (there are exception, of course). If they find an error in the sentencing procedure, the appellate court will remand the case back to the trial court for a new sentencing hearing. If they find an error in the guilt phase of a DP trial, they will remand back to the trial court for a whole new trial. Pardons are usually the job of the governor or parole board. Granting parole is usually the job of the parole board. Neither pardons nor paroles are usually considered an "appeal," but merely a plea for mercy not necessarily based on what occurred at trial. HTH! Allison |
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Post by SkyLoom on Nov 16, 2005 9:01:58 GMT -6
1.) Sometimes Anti's seem to confuse and use wrongly the words 'murder' and 'kill.' I was under the impression that a 'murder' was an unlawful, premeditated killing of a human by a human. Need I define kill? Sometimes Anti's say that the DP is 'Killing a killer', or 'murdering a murderer.' The word choice seems wrong to me because a murderer is never just a killer, and likewise the court system would never allow itself to become a murderer. (Does the jury not eliminate the possibilty of a premeditated decision?) Clearly 'murder' and 'kill' are not the same thing. I Guess this is not a question; a comment I guess, that some clarification on would be excellent. Hello, Fred. I think you need to clarify for yourself the difference between murder and killing just a bit. I say this because you defined murder as an unlawful, premeditated killing. You've defined murder as killing while at the same time you're saying that murder and killing aren't the same thing. I don't think that "kill" necessarily implies a wrong or even a human agent. We say "cancer kills" or we say that someone "was killed" when he hit a telephone pole with his car, for instance. So, first of all, you need to be really clear about defining your terms so everyone knows where you're coming from. 2.) Does anyone know the actual number of people who are given LWOP and actually die in prison?All of them. 3.) What exactly is an appeal? How do prisoners make one? What is the purpose of them. What are possible outcomes of appeals? (Reduced sentences, pardon, parole...etc, etc) How easy is it to make an appeal?Appeals do not examine the jury verdict or the facts of any case. They examine legal issues that impact on the trial. For instance, if a prisoner believes that evidence the jury saw or heard was legally inadmissable, he can file an appeal. Generally, the outcome of an appeal has to do with whether or not the fact that the jury saw or heard inadmissable evidence (for instance) was a factor in their verdict, or if the verdict would have been different had they not heard that evidence. It is extremely difficult for anyone to have a jury decision overturned and/or to get a new trial. That's because our laws put a great deal of trust in the average citizen who is a member of a jury. Finally, I saw a thread asking about what your kids thought of the DP. I am on the debate team at my high school, and If you're interrested, a majority of kids are againts the DP. Most of the time though it's because they don't really know anything about it.[/quote] Probably they don't. Most adults don't really know that much about the death penalty. But, out of curiosity, what do you think they ought to know that they don't know? |
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Post by Anony+ on Nov 16, 2005 11:47:51 GMT -6
It is extremely difficult for anyone to have a jury decision overturned and/or to get a new trial. That's because our laws put a great deal of trust in the average citizen who is a member of a jury. I have to disagree. I'll give you the number of death penalty cases that were reversed in the past 3 years, nationwide. By my count, it's somewhere around 114 -- not a small number. And that's only on direct appeal -- I didn't count state or federal habeas reversals. And it's not really the jury's decision that's usually called into question on appeals. It's the conduct or decisions of the prosector, defense attorney and/or judge that serves as the basis of trial error that results in a reversal. So regardless of how much "trust" we put in a jury, that's not whose conduct is usually under review on appeal. Allison |
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Post by josephdphillips on Nov 16, 2005 16:14:59 GMT -6
It is extremely difficult for anyone to have a jury decision overturned and/or to get a new trial. That's because our laws put a great deal of trust in the average citizen who is a member of a jury. I have to disagree. I'll give you the number of death penalty cases that were reversed in the past 3 years, nationwide. By my count, it's somewhere around 114 -- not a small number. And that's only on direct appeal -- I didn't count state or federal habeas reversals. And it's not really the jury's decision that's usually called into question on appeals. It's the conduct or decisions of the prosector, defense attorney and/or judge that serves as the basis of trial error that results in a reversal. So regardless of how much "trust" we put in a jury, that's not whose conduct is usually under review on appeal. Allison Allison, I believe SkyLoon's point is that ignorant, rube jurors shouldn't be trusted with something as important as deciding the guilt of people who have been forced by society into killing innocent people. |
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