Israel

[SkyLoom]

RickZ said:

No. I was merely responding to your inane comment as to whether Israel would apply their Crimes Against Humanity statute against themselves because of their actions against the Jordyptians. It is the Jordyptians, themselves, who show no such signs of any humanity. The homicide bombings, sniping at cars, breaking into homes and murdering babies in their sleep, all these 'missions' show my sentiment to be based on an historical fact pattern.

I'm afraid this is how people fight when they don't have armies to fight for them.

[RickZ]

SkyLoom said:

I'm afraid this is how people fight when they don't have armies to fight for them.

Sheesh! Another one who thinks it's somehow legitimate to blow up pizza parlors and buses. The big hole in lower Manhattan proves otherwise.

[Felix2]

As Joseph Philips thinks war crimes by US troops are OK, what is the matter about a little or for that matter a big hole in Manhattan or indeed anywhere on the mainland US?

[johnbgraf]

felix2 said:

As Joseph Philips thinks war crimes by US troops are OK, what is the matter about a little or for that matter a big hole in Manhattan or indeed anywhere on the mainland US?

Hey Felix can you give us YOUR definition of"war crimes"

[johnbgraf]

War is an unfortunate thing but it is a fact of life.There will always be wars,they are unavoidable.I'm not saying you go looking for a war,but there are just to many things
worth fighting about.With that said,during war times there are always innocent people
who get killed.I don't like it but it is what you call collateral damage:

Noun 1. collateral damage - (euphemism) inadvertent casualties and destruction inflicted on civilians in the course of military operations

These collateral damages are unavoidable.I have been shot at out here,and if I was shot
it would not be a war crime.My family would'nt see it that way either.Its part of the hazards
of a war zone.

Its sad when children get accidently killed.Where "war crimes" come into play is when innocent children are used as bait,or have been strapped down with explosives and told
to walk into a crowd of US soldiers.Now that is a "war crime".

[Felix2]

johnbgraf said:

felix2 said:

As Joseph Philips thinks war crimes by US troops are OK, what is the matter about a little or for that matter a big hole in Manhattan or indeed anywhere on the mainland US?

Hey Felix can you give us YOUR definition of"war crimes"

My definition of war crimes? How much time have you got?

[californian]

felix2 said:

johnbgraf said:

Hey Felix can you give us YOUR definition of"war crimes"

My definition of war crimes? How much time have you got?

Felix: The problem with your fantasies about war crimes is that only the losers are charged with them.

Had the U.S. lost WWII, we'd have seen movies of the carpet-bombing of Dresden or Cologne and the U.S. Marines using flamethrowers against the Japs in the Pacific instead of those of the concentration camps.

As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us.

So, essentially, you're screwed.

But you're Irish so no doubt you're used to it.

[johnbgraf]

felix2 said:

johnbgraf said:

Hey Felix can you give us YOUR definition of"war crimes"

My definition of war crimes? How much time have you got?

I got all the time in the world,after all I'm stuck here in a war zone.So from your side of the world,tell me a few
examples of what you think are war crimes.

[Deleted]

californian said:

felix2 said:

My definition of war crimes? How much time have you got?

Felix: The problem with your fantasies about war crimes is that only the losers are charged with them.



As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us.

So, essentially, you're screwed.

But you're Irish so no doubt you're used to it.

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.


"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

[RickZ]

zambo said:

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.

Go peddle your revisionist hogwash somewhere else.

"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

Yes, the old 'frabricate evidence' canard. Too bad you can't keep up with the news.

www.nysun.com/article/26514

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

. . .

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

"Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.

. . .

Mr. Sada acknowledged that the disclosures about transfers of weapons of mass destruction are "a very delicate issue." He said he was afraid for his family. "I am sure the terrorists will not like it. The Saddamists will not like it," he said.

He thanked the American troops. "They liberated the country and the nation. It is a liberation force. They did a great job," he said. "We have been freed."

He said he had not shared his story until now with any American officials. "I kept everything secret in my heart," he said. But he is scheduled to meet next week in Washington with Senators Sessions and Inhofe, Republicans of, respectively, Alabama and Oklahoma. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The book also says that on the eve of the first Gulf War, Saddam was planning to use his air force to launch a chemical weapons attack on Israel.

When, during an interview with the Sun in April 2004, Vice President Cheney was asked whether he thought that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria, Mr. Cheney replied only that he had seen such reports.

An article in the Fall 2005 Middle East Quarterly reports that in an appearance on Israel's Channel 2 on December 23, 2002, Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, stated, "Chemical and biological weapons which Saddam is endeavoring to conceal have been moved from Iraq to Syria." The allegation was denied by the Syrian government at the time as "completely untrue," and it attracted scant American press attention, coming as it did on the eve of the Christmas holiday.

The Syrian ruling party and Saddam Hussein had in common the ideology of Baathism, a mixture of Nazism and Marxism.

Syria is one of only eight countries that has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, a treaty that obligates nations not to stockpile or use chemical weapons. Syria's chemical warfare program, apart from any weapons that may have been received from Iraq, has long been the source of concern to America, Israel, and Lebanon. In March 2004, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying, "Damascus has an active CW development and testing program that relies on foreign suppliers for key controlled chemicals suitable for producing CW."

The CIA's Iraq Survey Group acknowledged in its September 30, 2004, "Comprehensive Report," "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly."

. . .
-------------

So the US gives advance warning to a dictator that we are going to invade, and that dictator takes advantage of that time lag, including all those lovely UN Security Council 'debates' over hard-edged resolutions, by reconfiguring civilian airliners to fly the WMD to a fellow Ba'athist Regime in a neighboring country.

Too bad you are too ignorant to connect these dots.

[RickZ]

An analysis of this 'WMDs Moved to Syria' story using the tried and tested logic of Occam's Razor.

rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2006/01/26/oh-those-pesky-iraqi-wmds/

[Elric of Melnibone]

The United States regards weapons such as poison gas and biological weapons to be weapons of mass destruction and rates them with nuclear deivces. In other words, use them and we nuke you to he!!.

[Felix2]

zambo said:

californian said:

Felix: The problem with your fantasies about war crimes is that only the losers are charged with them.



As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us.

So, essentially, you're screwed.

But you're Irish so no doubt you're used to it.

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.


"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

somehow Zambo I cant see DEE or his fan club rushing to defend themselves or the uS from the pertinent points you make.

[muddy22193]

felix2 said:

As Joseph Philips thinks war crimes by US troops are OK, what is the matter about a little or for that matter a big hole in Manhattan or indeed anywhere on the mainland US?

Seems to me you also think it's ok for the IRA to blow up innocent civilians!

[muddy22193]

johnbgraf said:

felix2 said:

My definition of war crimes? How much time have you got?

I got all the time in the world,after all I'm stuck here in a war zone.So from your side of the world,tell me a few
examples of what you think are war crimes.

Don't know nor care what branch you are in! Kick a@@ and take names.
I am retired Air Force E-7 (Aug 2000)

[muddy22193]

zambo said:

californian said:

Felix: The problem with your fantasies about war crimes is that only the losers are charged with them.



As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us.

So, essentially, you're screwed.

But you're Irish so no doubt you're used to it.

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.


"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

Quit mixing apples and oranges. With today's technology, the A-bomb wouldn't have been needed.
As far as the 800 lb gorilla's creditability goes, if he yells me to do something, I will because he outweighs me by a mile!

[muddy22193]

felix2 said:

zambo said:

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.


"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

somehow Zambo I cant see DEE or his fan club rushing to defend themselves or the uS from the pertinent points you make.

Bring it on, zambo! I will debate you topic for topic as it pertains to the US military! There must be a reason why so many countries want to pattern their organizations, structure, policies and tactics after US!

[muddy22193]

johnbgraf said:

felix2 said:

As Joseph Philips thinks war crimes by US troops are OK, what is the matter about a little or for that matter a big hole in Manhattan or indeed anywhere on the mainland US?

Hey Felix can you give us YOUR definition of"war crimes"

Only if he can use IRA standards!

[Deleted]

When thousands of innocent people are killed by the US it is called colatoral damage and therefore not classed as war crimes interesting....

[muddy22193]

zambo said:

When thousands of innocent people are killed by the US it is called colatoral damage and therefore not classed as war crimes interesting....

Why can you not comprehend the definition of war! We were at war and it was us or them!

[Deleted]

muddy22193 said:

zambo said:

When thousands of innocent people are killed by the US it is called colatoral damage and therefore not classed as war crimes interesting....

Why can you not comprehend the definition of war! We were at war and it was us or them!

"WAR - A contention by force; or the art of paralysing the forces of an enemy."

Forces of an enemy in my book do not include innocent womwn and children . I can clearly define the definition however it seems to be different to yours.

www.vialls.com/myahudi/rape.html

www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Vietnam6475_CIAHits.html

[Deleted]

rickz said:

zambo said:

Only losers are charged : thats correct : nagasaki and hiroshima close to 200,000 died either directly or over time due to associated ilnesses. 95% were civilians women and children that is justified killing I guess.

Go peddle your revisionist hogwash somewhere else.

"As to Iraq, we're the 800-pound gorilla in the world today. No country of group of countries has the power to enforce a war crimes prosecution against us."
so that makes it right to do as you please?

So that makes it ok to fabricate evidence to attempt to gain support for an invasion? So that makes it ok to show gross contempt to an international body (UN) and go against their ruling? An 800 pound gorilla can throw his weight about but when his credibility has been lost then he has nothing.

Yes, the old 'frabricate evidence' canard. Too bad you can't keep up with the news.

www.nysun.com/article/26514

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

. . .

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

"Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.

. . .

Mr. Sada acknowledged that the disclosures about transfers of weapons of mass destruction are "a very delicate issue." He said he was afraid for his family. "I am sure the terrorists will not like it. The Saddamists will not like it," he said.

He thanked the American troops. "They liberated the country and the nation. It is a liberation force. They did a great job," he said. "We have been freed."

He said he had not shared his story until now with any American officials. "I kept everything secret in my heart," he said. But he is scheduled to meet next week in Washington with Senators Sessions and Inhofe, Republicans of, respectively, Alabama and Oklahoma. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The book also says that on the eve of the first Gulf War, Saddam was planning to use his air force to launch a chemical weapons attack on Israel.

When, during an interview with the Sun in April 2004, Vice President Cheney was asked whether he thought that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria, Mr. Cheney replied only that he had seen such reports.

An article in the Fall 2005 Middle East Quarterly reports that in an appearance on Israel's Channel 2 on December 23, 2002, Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, stated, "Chemical and biological weapons which Saddam is endeavoring to conceal have been moved from Iraq to Syria." The allegation was denied by the Syrian government at the time as "completely untrue," and it attracted scant American press attention, coming as it did on the eve of the Christmas holiday.

The Syrian ruling party and Saddam Hussein had in common the ideology of Bathos, a mixture of Nazism and Marxism.

Syria is one of only eight countries that has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, a treaty that obligates nations not to stockpile or use chemical weapons. Syria's chemical warfare program, apart from any weapons that may have been received from Iraq, has long been the source of concern to America, Israel, and Lebanon. In March 2004, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying, "Damascus has an active CW development and testing program that relies on foreign suppliers for key controlled chemicals suitable for producing CW."

The CIA's Iraq Survey Group acknowledged in its September 30, 2004, "Comprehensive Report," "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly."

. . .
-------------

So the US gives advance warning to a dictator that we are going to invade, and that dictator takes advantage of that time lag, including all those lovely UN Security Council 'debates' over hard-edged resolutions, by reconfiguring civilian airliners to fly the WMD to a fellow Ba'athist Regime in a neighboring country.

Too bad you are too ignorant to connect these dots.

Thus just makes a further mockery of american intelligence. you can present copious amounts of footage , which you claim as evidence, about the existence of WMD , you claim to have the best intelligence capabilities in the world yet you could not depict , from your surveillance , that a number of aircraft were leaving Iraq loaded with MD. I Suppose it as a timely article. If there was any credibility in this information I would be certain that Bushy and his puppets would be skiting by now of this revelation in order to clear their names and justify the invasion. That has not happened.

So with this new information when are the Americans planning to invade Syria to retrieve these weapons... I guess they are desperate enough to launch and attack soon so as to 1/ clear their names & 2/ get there before the weapons ar transfered to another neighboring country

[muddy22193]

zambo said:

muddy22193 said:

Why can you not comprehend the definition of war! We were at war and it was us or them!

"WAR - A contention by force; or the art of paralysing the forces of an enemy."

Forces of an enemy in my book do not include innocent womwn and children . I can clearly define the definition however it seems to be different to yours.

www.vialls.com/myahudi/rape.html

www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Vietnam6475_CIAHits.html

You still do not get the point. Haven't you read any of the previous posts? I clearly stated that if we had had the today's technologt then, the bomb would not have been used.
That was then and this is now so get over it.

[Deleted]

muddy22193 said:

zambo said:

"WAR - A contention by force; or the art of paralysing the forces of an enemy."

Forces of an enemy in my book do not include innocent womwn and children . I can clearly define the definition however it seems to be different to yours.

www.vialls.com/myahudi/rape.html

www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA%20Hits/Vietnam6475_CIAHits.html

You still do not get the point. Haven't you read any of the previous posts? I clearly stated that if we had had the today's technologt then, the bomb would not have been used.
That was then and this is now so get over it.

But I am talking about now.

[RickZ]

muddy22193 said:

zambo said:

When thousands of innocent people are killed by the US it is called colatoral damage and therefore not classed as war crimes interesting....

Why can you not comprehend the definition of war! We were at war and it was us or them!

Because these kids have been pretty much spared war their entire lives. They really have no clue what it means to be passive and docile in the face of aggression. They do not comprehend how miserable Jimmy Carter's response to Iran during his presidency actually was, how long the reach of the damage. (I remember quite well my reaction when I heard Carter, early in his term, announce he was banning alcohol in the White House. It was, "Uh-oh." And I was right.) What is happening right now in Afghanistan and Iraq is but a small, very small, finger, like the Little Dutch Boy's, plugging the hole in the dike. With Iran, they became crucial points in an old, but vigorously renewed, vision of an ideological, social, religious, and political domination funded by Saudi petrodollars. To these kids, like myself, they only know WWII from books. I also have my parents, and knew my grandparents. They only read, or hear, the modern truth of liberal analysis, not the true day to day fear that many over the world lived with on a day-to-day basis during the early to mid 20th Century. And the battle for freedom raged with the USSR in the Cold War, cold because it was so much more civil. Not the best thing, but not suicidal. Suicide as a tactic is 180 degrees away from the hero of the liberally inclined, Gandhi. Gandhi had his bad points, his typical British anti-semitism (which was a fact of life for anyone wanting to approach the higher reaches of government, and Gandhi was a lawyer), and his weird obsession with defecation, and studying it. But at least he had "passive resistance," not active 'splodeydope, as both a political and religious philosophical guiding force. But when faced with the suicidal, who care not who you are nor where you die, is very uncivil. And backing down again, and allowing it to grow stronger still, isn't the best way to go. Oftentimes, it really is a matter of 'pay me now or pay me later', with later being always more expensive. It's happened before without us, and it will happen again with us. It's that smple. Now, what are we going to do about it? Pull a Carter, a Chamberlain? For those who read, try out Churchill's The Gathering Storm, a history of what happened when the democracies of Europe were servile and docile to fascism for too long. If anyone were to seriously read local news sources on the web, one would find that things are happening all over the world right now, giving us big clues to the new paradigm. But those are details, which most people find boring. For example do you know why the bulldozing of an over-sized teapot in Malaysia is important to you? How we deal with the situation now is the question. Pay me now or . . . pay me later.

[Deleted]

rick I agree with you. My parents lived through the war and lost members of their families and also watched as their brother and husbands men were marched of to be executed in open graves. I have heard so much about what happens much of which will never be found in any text books. The pain , missery and fear they endured sitting huddled in their homes listening as planes flew above not knowing if the whisting they heard was going to be the last sound they hear.. Sitting and waiting wondering if at any moment their doors will be broken open and a armed soldiers would barge in opening fire on anything thats moves. The sickly sight of people trying to survive where a simple rat became a delecacy, The sounds of screaming women as they are dragged of by soldiers still rings in their heads, there is much much more war . noone can comprehend the true magnitude of what happend unless they were actually there and lived through it. Chamberlain and the league of nations procrastinated while counties were being invaded . This is not the case today in fact it has totally about faced and the western world strikes with out provocation. I am well aware that some wars are neccesary and cannot be avoided but sadly as normal civilians we never find out the real reasons behind some of them. A war is sometime required by governments to arrest a failing economy .

[RickZ]

zambo said:

rick I agree with you. My parents lived through the war and lost members of their families and also watched as their brother and husbands men were marched of to be executed in open graves. I have heard so much about what happens much of which will never be found in any text books. The pain , missery and fear they endured sitting huddled in their homes listening as planes flew above not knowing if the whisting they heard was going to be the last sound they hear.. Sitting and waiting wondering if at any moment their doors will be broken open and a armed soldiers would barge in opening fire on anything thats moves. The sickly sight of people trying to survive where a simple rat became a delecacy, The sounds of screaming women as they are dragged of by soldiers still rings in their heads, there is much much more war . noone can comprehend the true magnitude of what happend unless they were actually there and lived through it. Chamberlain and the league of nations procrastinated while counties were being invaded .

So far so good.

This is not the case today in fact it has totally about faced and the western world strikes with out provocation.

What? ? ? And I might as well throw out who, when, where, and why, as well.

I am well aware that some wars are neccesary and cannot be avoided but sadly as normal civilians we never find out the real reasons behind some of them.

Historically that may be true, but recently?

A war is sometime required by governments to arrest a failing economy .

By a democracy of recent date? When one side is ready to kill you, to wage war on you, you pretty much have only two options: A rational response or the French one.

[RickZ]

zambo said:

Thus just makes a further mockery of american intelligence.

The point is, not just American intelligence. What you are saying is that it was an intelligence failure of all the major intelligence services. What are the odds of everybody being so wrong? And I do mean everybody.

you can present copious amounts of footage , which you claim as evidence, about the existence of WMD , you claim to have the best intelligence capabilities in the world yet you could not depict , from your surveillance , that a number of aircraft were leaving Iraq loaded with MD.

Did you even read the whole article? The deception involved with a fellow Ba'athist regime?

I Suppose it as a timely article. If there was any credibility in this information I would be certain that Bushy and his puppets would be skiting by now of this revelation in order to clear their names and justify the invasion. That has not happened.

Why is this, do you suppose? Could it possibly be that you and your ilk would never believe anything that comes out of his mouth? We gave Iraq enough friggin' warning, thanks to the demand to go through the Den of Thieves called the UN, for Saddam to play numerous games with the weapons inspections using his (Oil-for-)Palaces. You do understand that Saddam proclaimed victory in 1991 don't you? Of course, his 'victory' was the fact that he was still in charge, with the rape and torture chambers still operating.

So with this new information when are the Americans planning to invade Syria to retrieve these weapons... I guess they are desperate enough to launch and attack soon so as to 1/ clear their names & 2/ get there before the weapons ar transfered to another neighboring country

There are many more reasons than the one you cite for us to go into Syria. But Iran is first up. Besides, Israel's close enough, geographically, to Syria to help out.

[mel77]

The US is the biggest bully the world has ever seen.

[muddy22193]

mel77 said:

The US is the biggest bully the world has ever seen.

Really? What qualifies you to say that? 1930's Germany and Pre Cold War Russia would fit into that category I think. So if there can only be "One biggest Bully" how would you choose?