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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2007 1:18:04 GMT -6
Take a look at how the Poles served up justice to Nazi kapos and SS female guards from the Stutthof concentration camp in 1946... www.geocities.com/epjacobs4/biskupiae.htmTrucks, gallows, and a "slow hanging" - seems just about right to me. These criminals make even our mass murderers look like rank amateurs... Notice how they had former prisoners in striped concentration-camp uniforms push them off the truck - nice touch! Iraqis should have done Saddam and his henchmen like this...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2007 14:44:40 GMT -6
Geeze, thats pretty intense stuff. I guess that if anyone deserved a slow and painful deaths it was the Kapos and SS guards.
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Post by arizonavet on Mar 17, 2007 14:52:28 GMT -6
Take a look at how the Poles served up justice to Nazi kapos and SS female guards from the Stutthof concentration camp in 1946... www.geocities.com/epjacobs4/biskupiae.htmTrucks, gallows, and a "slow hanging" - seems just about right to me. These criminals make even our mass murderers look like rank amateurs... Notice how they had former prisoners in striped concentration-camp uniforms push them off the truck - nice touch! Iraqis should have done Saddam and his henchmen like this... I've stated here how I too have the urge to torture pedophile murder, John Couey.......so I know the feeling... and "Gitmo"...soft torturing of terrorists....is just fine with me. But intentionally slow, painfull deaths for bad people?... No, I'd like to think we'd not do that. Just get it over with, as humanely (and quickly) as possible.
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Post by GlennF on Mar 18, 2007 3:24:24 GMT -6
They just got what they deserved! They get absolutely no sympathy from me. Far too many Nazis got away with their lives.
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 18, 2007 4:48:01 GMT -6
Take a look at how the Poles served up justice to Nazi kapos and SS female guards from the Stutthof concentration camp in 1946... www.geocities.com/epjacobs4/biskupiae.htmTrucks, gallows, and a "slow hanging" - seems just about right to me. These criminals make even our mass murderers look like rank amateurs... Notice how they had former prisoners in striped concentration-camp uniforms push them off the truck - nice touch! Iraqis should have done Saddam and his henchmen like this... I've stated here how I too have the urge to torture pedophile murder, John Couey.......so I know the feeling... and "Gitmo"...soft torturing of terrorists....is just fine with me. But intentionally slow, painfull deaths for bad people?... No, I'd like to think we'd not do that. Just get it over with, as humanely (and quickly) as possible. Hi Arizona, I share your view and think that your opinion pleasantly differs from the improvident mainstream here. (Grab a "+") While I've been hating these Nazi bastards myself, I see no positive benefit of the senseless violence presented above. The Americans did a great job in Nuremberg and put evil mass-murderers to death as merciful as possible. Even the execution of Adolf Eichmann in Israel was more civilized. Long drop - good bye. The difference to those executed was obvious. As we all know today, especially the Russians, Poles and Czechs commited atrocities against Germans in great numbers, what lets all implicted "moral superiority" vanish away - while the Americans, British and French did nothing comparable. Anyway, even today the Poles are only good enough for stealing our cars, smuggling cigarettes, building up mafia like gangs and illegal brothels. Oh, there's one thing I forgot: They love to complain about us, ahhm, what usually means they want (need) money - next to three complete states (Silecia, East Prussia & Pommerania). Yours, euro.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2007 14:33:36 GMT -6
Your universal commendation of the Polish people is despicable. You sound like a German with a superiority complex and a touch of the Ayran mythology still creeping through your body.
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 18, 2007 14:48:54 GMT -6
Your universal commendation of the Polish people is despicable. You sound like a German with a superiority complex and a touch of the Ayran mythology still creeping through your body. Hi Sligoker, well, my response seems to be harsh and unjustified, but we are experiencing severe problems with the Poles right now. They obviously discovered that WWII can be a very profitable business. And, yes, since the borders have opened to the East, we actually experience that many felons (cigarettes, drugs, prostitution) come from Poland or use this land to build up their infrastructure. All we hear from Warsaw is lame excuses and their reference to WWII. They obviously think that their piece of the cake wasn't big enough. As for the executions in Stutthof: The Americans showed how war criminals should be trialed, sentenced and executed. Period. The mindset behind these unnecessary tortures is comparable to the brutality of the German war criminals they hung. Yours, euro.
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Post by GlennF on Mar 18, 2007 16:25:06 GMT -6
Anyway, even today the Poles are only good enough for stealing our cars, smuggling cigarettes, building up mafia like gangs and illegal brothels. Oh, there's one thing I forgot: They love to complain about us, ahhm, what usually means they want (need) money - next to three complete states (Silecia, East Prussia & Pommerania). Yours, euro. This is obviously a very nice example of the typical "Deutschland, Deutschland, ueber Alles!" Of course Germans don't do any of those things you mentioned above. It's about time you climb down from your high horse, and take a good long look at yourself. You Germans are far from perfect, in fact VERY far. You seem to think that because World War 2 is more than 60 years away the rest of the world wants to forget, I can well imagine that many of your countrymen would like to forget the crap done in your name, but I can assure you the rest of the world won't. Of course some bad things happened to Germans after the war, but can you blame the Poles or Russians for reacting this way, especially after the hate the Germans sowed. In Germany when the Nazis took over, the Jews were seen to be money grabbing and a danger to "German culture", many Germans bought into it and look what happenend. I know many Poles and Russians who, like myself, live in Germany, and they are the most hospitable people I have ever met. So what right have you to claim that all Poles are "only good enough for stealing our cars, smuggling cigarettes, building up mafia like gangs and illegal brothels." I know you'd like to share the blame a little, but that little bit of "slow hanging" of those few in Stutthof is not at all comparable to the crimes of the Nazis. You keep forgetting, those hanged were guilty of the most atrocious crimes, THEY, on the other hand, tortured and murdered men, women and children for the fun of it or for a cracked up ideology.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2007 19:33:41 GMT -6
You are experience problems with the Poles (ah, the good old universal to describe the Polish people as a whole--typical German sterotyping). You know, the more I hear this generation of Germans rant their racist ideology, the more I believe that they were (as the book says) Hitler's Willing Executioners! What about some complaints about the rebirth of right wing fascist hate groups in Germany---Those people pose more of a threat then the Poles!
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Post by Californian on Mar 18, 2007 19:37:30 GMT -6
Gosh, where could they learn such a thing?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2007 22:02:45 GMT -6
Just some observations on Euro's comments above: 1) Whatever some Polish criminals are doing in Germany today or the current state of intra-EU fiscal transfers, this has no bearing on what happened in the wake of WWII sixty years ago. 2) Euro writes that he sees "no positive benefit of the senseless violence presented above." I take it he is just objecting not to the executions but rather to the method of execution. I would find the long-drop method generally preferable, but if I had seen my country torn to pieces, its capital city razed to the ground, and its citizens slaughtered in death camps, I might be more inclined to view the acceptable method of hanging the perpetrators more flexibly. 3) Euro seems to imply that the Poles dragged these criminals to the gallows without due process. In fact, given the raw emotions at the time, the Polish judicial proceedings were quite restrained. Of the 84 defendants in the four Stutthof trials, 21 were sentenced to death and executed and the rest were sentenced to terms of imprisonment ranging from several months to twelve years (along with a few life sentences and a few acquittals). Given the fact that all of these criminals knew that Stutthof was a death camp (although a small one compared to Auschwitz, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, Majdanek, and Chelmno) and they willingly worked there, the Poles would probably have been justified in hanging the entire lot of them. The fact that they did not and discriminated between various degrees of criminal culpability (e.g. those who operated the gas chamber and those who, so to speak, clipped the hedges) suggests that the process was basically fair. I should note that SS Sturmbahnfuhrer Werner Hoppe, the camp commandant who brought to Stutthof the killing methods perfected in Auschwitz, was able to escape to western Germany where he was arrested by the British. Somehow he managed to escape and was only later brought before a West German court in the 1950s where he was sentenced to NINE YEARS in jail. Given the fact that it is estimated 60,000 people (probably somewhat more) were murdered at Stutthof, I think this sentence raises more questions about the nature of West German justice at that time. To my mind, the Polish sentences and how they were carried out seem far more in conformity to the demands of justice. 4) Some of Euro's other points seem to invite an essential moral equivalence between the Germans, Russians, and Poles. While it is proper to point to the war crimes committed by the advancing Soviet army, I do not think it is amiss to point out that this was after the Nazis had already devastated Russia and murdered millions of Russians and other Soviet citizens (and in particular Jewish citizens of course). While no one should apologize for Stalin's monstrous tyranny, it is clear that it was the Germans who were primarily responsible for unleashing a race war in the east during WWII. Perhaps Euro's most mind-bending statement, however, was the following: "The mindset behind these unnecessary tortures is comparable to the brutality of the German war criminals they hung." The distinction is clear and obvious and it revolves around innocence and guilt. Just a final note from the Stutthof Museum website ( www.stutthof.pl/en/main.htm):"Stutthof was the place where 110 000 people were kept: men, women and children; citizens of 25 countries and of 25 nationalities. Among them were also Poles, Jews, Russians, Ukrainians, White Russians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Czechs, Slovaks, Finns, Norwegians, French, Danes, Dutch, Belgs, Germans, Austrians, English, Spanish, Italians, Yugoslavs, Hungarians and Gypsies. During the imprisonment they were exposed to a number of exterminating factors such as slave-like work, malnutrition, terrible sanitation, disease, mental and physical torture. 65 000 people died as a result of exterminating living conditions as well as of executions by shooting, hanging, murdering in gas chambers by means of Cyclone B, killing by means of phenol injections into the heart, beating and torturing, and during evacuation by land and by sea."
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 19, 2007 4:46:59 GMT -6
This is obviously a very nice example of the typical "Deutschland, Deutschland, ueber Alles!" Of course Germans don't do any of those things you mentioned above. Come on Glenn, you can do better. The Nazi card doesn't work for me. That's the goody ol' and wrong tactic of the German left. It's important to say what needs to be said. I don't think that Germans forget about their past, but I do think that it's high time to forget about further compensations, reparations or however you wanna call it. The Poles try to terrorize us with numerous claims, while other countries (America, France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.) do not. Warsaw simply abuses the good old WW2 stuff to give their outrages more insistence. Their claims are based on money, not international understanding or reconciliation. I MAY don't expect that from a common soldier but I have to expect it from the post war authorities. They clearly have to act on a higher level. Furthermore your belittlement of mass-murder, rape, disappropriation and expulsion is sickening. Oh, but juvenile German girls at 13 or 14 clearly deserved to become raped for what the Wehrmacht did. The Americans would have every reason to burn guys like Ramzi Binalshib or other worthless Taliban garbage at the stake, but they don't do it because they know how to treat criminals civilized. I actually don't know why my son's generation should pay another round of reparations to Grand Theft Poland? They only try "to milk the cow" (German saying) as much as possible. This means you're a smoker and love vodka out of water jars? Replace the word "all" with "many" and put the life experience of many people from Northern Germany on top. Together with the Turks, the Poles and Russians hold a big piece of the crime rate cake. If you need more information on this topic, you should make friends who work for the "Bundesgrenzschutz" (German border police) and you will get a more complete insight of our lovely neighbours from the East. Furthermore I'd encourage you to travel to Warsaw, Gdansk or Lodz by car. Hint: Even the Poles who live in Germany prefer flying or booking a bus trip. Some even lend out OLD cars to travel home and visit their loved ones. BTW, here's some valuable information from the German Ministry of Foreign Affeirs: Touristische Hinweise (persönliche Sicherheitsvorkehrungen)Wie in vielen anderen Reiseländern auch sollten wertvoller Schmuck, Uhren, Kameras, Pässe und Brieftaschen/Geldbörsen möglichst nicht sichtbar getragen werden. Gepäck sollte niemals unbeaufsichtigt bleiben. Insbesondere auf den vielbefahrenen Strecken Görlitz-Breslau (A 4), Frankfurt/Oder-Warschau sowie in Großstädten kann es zu Diebstahl oder Raub von Kfz kommen (Vorsicht vor Diebstahl auf unbewachten Parkplätzen und vor vorgetäuschten Unfällen!). Totalschaden oder Verlust (Diebstahl) des KfZ führt unter Umständen zu abgabenrechtlichen Problemen. Die Mitgliedschaft in einem Automobilclub oder der Abschluss einer speziellen Versicherung (Auslandsschutzbrief) wird daher dringend angeraten." "That little bit of slow hanging"? This means a LITTLE murder and a LITTLE torture now and again is not THAT bad? Yep, sounds very British! Nonetheless the Poles showed that they have little to no problems to act on the same barbaric and inhumane level as the Nazi butchers did. Yours, euro.
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 19, 2007 6:19:40 GMT -6
Gosh, where could they learn such a thing? Hi Calif, unfortunately there has developed something like "the Germans treated us even more despicable than the xx or yy or even zz" cult in Poland. One time they are peed, saying we don't accept the finality of the East German border, what is pure nonsense . The next time they complain we'd support those who want their land back, then it's the description of German refugees in the media ("We don't want them to be called victims!") and so on. But the whole discussion doesn't seem to be about working up history, but financial allocations. Their accusations are often flanked by another bunch of tangible goods or the mentioned financial aspects. People in Germany call it the "WW2-business" and that's what it is. I don't mind and never will, that all these poor concentration camp inmates, slave laborers etc. get some sort of "compensation" (We all know that there's no real compensation, but at least a monetary restitution.) Poland has already gotten two and a half former German states, reparation payings in high numbers from both "Germanies" and and and ... My generation and the upcoming generations cannot "repair" what our ancestors did there. Even if we'd assign another five hundred trucks of euros to an account of the Polish government. Yours, euro.
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 19, 2007 6:27:50 GMT -6
You are experience problems with the Poles (ah, the good old universal to describe the Polish people as a whole--typical German sterotyping). You know, the more I hear this generation of Germans rant their racist ideology, the more I believe that they were (as the book says) Hitler's Willing Executioners! What about some complaints about the rebirth of right wing fascist hate groups in Germany---Those people pose more of a threat then the Poles! This question is also valid for Poland. Furthermore they still have pubs where the German language is forbidden. Doesn't sound like "Aussöhnung" if you ask me! euro.
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Post by Matt on Mar 19, 2007 8:10:58 GMT -6
Interesting thread.
An aside: the German language loves to create extremely long words by simply amalgamating a bunch of other words together.
I read somewhere that there is a word in German for "the sudden realization that the old man who tended your family's garden for the past 50 years and who you came to call grandfather is really a Nazi".
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Post by brumsongs on Mar 19, 2007 8:17:03 GMT -6
Interesting thread. An aside: the German language loves to create extremely long words by simply amalgamating a bunch of other words together. I read somewhere that there is a word in German for "the sudden realization that the old man who tended your family's garden for the past 50 years and who you came to call grandfather is really a Nazi".
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Post by eu.ro on Mar 19, 2007 8:29:04 GMT -6
Interesting thread. An aside: the German language loves to create extremely long words by simply amalgamating a bunch of other words together. I read somewhere that there is a word in German for "the sudden realization that the old man who tended your family's garden for the past 50 years and who you came to call grandfather is really a Nazi". Ok mate, THAT was funny ...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2007 18:52:58 GMT -6
As we all know today, especially the Russians, Poles and Czechs commited atrocities against Germans in great numbers... Let us also not forget the Russian murder of 15,000 Polish officers at Katyn which they promptly accused the Germans of during the first Nuremberg trial. The description of an angry Goering and Hess over that portion of the trial was quite humorous. It embarassed the crap out of the British, French, and Americans on the bench, but thats what we get for letting the Russians participate. They should have just held their own trial--their beef with the Germans was a special one, anyway.
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