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Post by Rev. Agave on May 28, 2011 16:49:21 GMT -6
When an inmate is fried, he is typically zapped with a higher current, then a lower current, and then a higher current. If the inmate still lives, the cycle is repeated. Does anyone know why they don't use the same higher voltage/amperage throughout the entire cycle? Why bother with the lower jolt at all?
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Post by whitediamonds on May 28, 2011 17:13:53 GMT -6
When an inmate is fried, he is typically zapped with a higher current, then a lower current, and then a higher current. If the inmate still lives, the cycle is repeated. Does anyone know why they don't use the same higher voltage/amperage throughout the entire cycle? Why bother with the lower jolt at all? Just a guess, or he would catch fire...
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 28, 2011 17:15:29 GMT -6
When an inmate is fried, he is typically zapped with a higher current, then a lower current, and then a higher current. If the inmate still lives, the cycle is repeated. Does anyone know why they don't use the same higher voltage/amperage throughout the entire cycle? Why bother with the lower jolt at all? Just a guess, or he would catch fire... That could be!
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 10:33:53 GMT -6
Entertainment?
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Jun 7, 2011 8:33:04 GMT -6
Because the first jolt makes them lose consciousness and the body needs a cool down period or else it will catch fire. The second volt causes the breathing to stop so they are in the process of dying. The higher jolt finished them off.
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Post by Californian on Jun 7, 2011 8:47:50 GMT -6
The first charge, typically 2400 volts at 20 amps, completely destroys the nervous system and cause immediate loss of consciousness.
Rather than "catching fire," a better guess might be that the lower voltage is to prevent the water in the condemned's body from boiling, thus preventing a steam explosion from within, which would be quite messy.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Jun 7, 2011 8:50:30 GMT -6
Well at least it would be painless, but yeah, I doubt the witnesses would like to see the executed inmate exploded covering the chamber.
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Post by arizonavet on Jun 7, 2011 9:15:52 GMT -6
Remember, what is "messy" to most of us pro's.....is conscience-torturing ghastly to many.... Fires have started, smelly hair singeings, and doctors have had to repeatedly announce that the condmned's heart was still beating.....and more nerve-wracking jolts administered. If want to see more executions, and I for one do.....we don't want to give the anti's, "graphic" ammunition. "lullaby & goodnight" .....works for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 2:23:50 GMT -6
In some states they do (more likely, did). Nebraska used to use 4 ten-second jolts spaced out over a minute. I think last time Kentucky electrocuted someone, they used 2 strong jolts, 20 seconds and 15 seconds, separated by a 10 second gap.
When electrocution was first implemented as a means of execution, they used to give the offender a single jolt of say 15-20 seconds. They would check to see if they were "alive"--actually, if the heart was beating--and if so, gave them another one.
Problem they found was that the heart was still beating too often after the first jolt, and sometimes even after a second or 3rd. As late as 1985 William Vandiver in Indiana needed something like 5 cycles.
By that time, the points of connection are getting pretty hot, and the skin is burning. In one case in Alabama, the calf electrode burned off and had to be reattached.
To get the heart to stop beating on the first try, it works better to make the cycle longer. But if they ran it for several minutes at top voltage/amperage, flames would start erupting around the electrodes due to the heat buildup.
So, some states do multiple short intense jolts spaced out with pauses, and some do one or more short intense jolts spaced with a lower voltage and amperage, that doesn't build up as much heat but keeps the heart seized up.
South Carolina uses only a brief (few seconds) higher voltage/amperage jolt, just to knock out the brain, then finishes the cycle with two minutes of lower voltage/amperage to keep the heart seized up. South Carolina has never had a messy electrocution.
Another approach would be to keep the voltage high, but the amperage low enough to avoid burning the body beyond tolerances. That's probably the best approach. Florida uses too much amperage which is why theirs sometimes get messy.
Rare, and can be avoided.
Shave it all off. Probably most states do that now though in the old days some states only shaved a small section. Shave it all off; the prisoner won't need it and it will help make a cleaner job of it.
Have a look at the execution scene in the movie "Bundy". I think it's on youtube.
They took some dramatic license--for example, in real life the executioner is hidden in a small room off the main death-chamber, and the switch is a little dial not a big wall switch (though it probably should be...). Also, I don't think he had a nose-bleed or you would have heard about it, though that is a possibility for electrocutions.
The rest is pretty accurate though. Most of the time an electrocution is a total non-event, and it could be made even more sanitized--if really necessary--by modernizing the designs of the equipment.
I understand what your saying, and that would include occasional cases where the prisoner moans or complains during lethal injection. One favorable thing about electrocution is that the instant the circuit is closed, other than the prisoner tensing and a very slight electrical hum, it's pretty much all over. No moaning, crying, gasping, nothing.
Personally I think hanging should be the standard, the default, and the only choice as far as the prisoner is concerned (I'd give the judge and the warden discretion, but not the prisoner). No joke. Hang 'em.
But increasingly I'm concerned that executions are getting rare enough that there are issues over "well-oiled machines". Hanging takes some skill--not much, but there is potential for messy mistakes. Also, the hullabaloo over supplying the chemicals has to stop.
So, until the death penalty is truly restored as a predictable punishment for premeditated murder, terrorism, treason, and other serious crimes, so that executions are happening regularly and there is a supply of experienced executioners available, I would like to see brand-new state-of-the-art electric chairs distributed to every death row in every state. Strap 'em in, attach the electrodes (maybe 2 sets--one head to calf or lower back, the other chest to back through the heart), push the button. Have some special probes attached to the prisoner and a computer hooked into the system to decide how much to give 'em and when they're done. Have an engineer look at the heat buildup issue at the contact points and come up with a way to prevent it.
Consider that when the death penalty resumed in the USA, electrocution was the most common means of execution at first, and it was still commonly used when executions started picking up in 1995. It was still in use in 98 when executions were going strong, though unfortunately that was the year of the Tiny Lee Davis fiasco, which really wasn't that bad (nose bleed, face froze into a grimace) but it caused a lot of trouble.
Now that nearly all executions are by lethal injection, they're not only slowing down the pace, but there are more and more complaints about the procedure.
There is a sort of paradox: the more you try to sanitize it, the more sensitive certain sensibilities become. That's why we need to return to hanging, cut the drama in the media announcements, and get over the fact that we need to punish criminals this way. But until then, the electric chair is the way to go, and it's a good alternative to hanging especially for problem cases like too fat (Mitch Rupe) or a throat that's been slit in the past.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Jul 11, 2011 4:39:59 GMT -6
They took some dramatic license--for example, in real life the executioner is hidden in a small room off the main death-chamber, and the switch is a little dial not a big wall switch (though it probably should be...). Also, I don't think he had a nose-bleed or you would have heard about it, though that is a possibility for electrocutions. The rest is pretty accurate though. Most of the time an electrocution is a total non-event, and it could be made even more sanitized--if really necessary--by modernizing the designs of the equipment. Thanks for the VERY informative reply! Do you know whether they stuffed Bundy's a$$hole with cotton in real life like they did in the movie? Also, in some states the POS wears a death diaper. In other states they don't. I also know that some states have used a rectal plug. Do the states that use cotton up the butt or rectal plugs for electrocution also do that for lethal injection, or is it just done when using the Chair?
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Post by yasgursfarm on Jul 11, 2011 14:29:17 GMT -6
I believe it was in the documentary 'Doctor Death', the ankle straps would 'cook' the flesh. When they took the clamps off, the bone was left. Like a roast.
So I'm thinkin'... cool.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Jul 11, 2011 15:14:12 GMT -6
Agree totally with Wadeco. Lethal injection has been a silly effort to sanitize the entire process. FFS its DEATH, it was never meant to be pleasant. There is no pleasant way to punish people. I recieved coporal punishment and im glad it was painful and humiliating. Hanging and electrocution are the best ways to flush a scumbag from society and we ought to have stuck with those. Or America ought to, as we in the UK abolished the DP
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Post by halflife1052 on Jul 21, 2011 23:58:58 GMT -6
The high current is to destroy the nervous system as previously mentioned. The lower current is to force the heart to stop beating. Queer thing about getting hit with electricity, several things happen to your body all at once. First, all the mouscles in your chest convulse, compressing your chest. All too often the heart will spontaniously start beating again once the current is removed. BTW, current and not voltage is what kills you. .25 amps or 250 milliamps across the heart is what it takes to stop your heart. If you keep the current above .25 amps but below what will cause extreme damage to the exterior of the condemmed for a minute it drastically reduces the chance that the heart will start again once the current is removed. Next thing worth talking about is the fact that a chemical process begins when we are jolted with electricity that causes our internal impedance (resistance to AC) to increase. The short breaks in the cycles allow this chemical change to subside. As I mentioned before, .25 amps is all it takes and therefore a specific voltage is needed to produce that much current in the body of the condemmed. E=I*R or voltage equals current times resistance. Each of us have a slightly different resistance so each of us would require a different voltage to achieve the goal. I believe the machine uses a standard voltage and uses current clamping to keep the current from becoming too high. Using more direct cross heart placement of the electrodes would have an improved chance of stopping the heart on the first try (think defibrilator). Hmm.... a defibrilator and an ECT device together would perform the same function without all the crispy critter stuff. Food for thought.
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Katyusha
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After some deep thought and consideration-Anti
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Post by Katyusha on Jul 22, 2011 5:28:11 GMT -6
cause immediate loss of consciousness.
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Post by ichy on Jul 29, 2011 21:28:23 GMT -6
Thanks for the VERY informative reply! Do you know whether they stuffed Bundy's a$$hole with cotton in real life like they did in the movie? I'm almost certain that was Hollywood nonsense.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Aug 7, 2011 23:10:12 GMT -6
I'm wondering if it is true what they had down in the movie if Bundy's executioner really WAS a woman.
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Post by Felix2 on Aug 8, 2011 5:36:48 GMT -6
I'm wondering if it is true what they had down in the movie if Bundy's executioner really WAS a woman. I have never heard anything to suggest it was a woman.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Aug 8, 2011 13:22:42 GMT -6
I'm wondering if it is true what they had down in the movie if Bundy's executioner really WAS a woman. I think it was more a kind of symbolism. Bundy murdered women so the movie thought it a good idea to have a woman executing him. "This is on behalf of women the world over" kind of thing.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Aug 11, 2011 16:00:12 GMT -6
But it would have been so cool if that was the case. Which is why I am kind of hoping it was true but probably not.
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