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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 8, 2011 22:01:15 GMT -6
Yes, torcher is yucky, many people say and I agree, I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of the pain/torcher of getting there. Also many hope they are lucky enough to die in their sleep or meriful way/ quick. Death is acceptable in many cases for many reasons. To allow torcher is unexceptable and inhumane. Sometimes inhumane to others around them not to be put to sleep forever. Assuming we're both talking about inflicting pain on people who've wronged society and not firestarters, if you are correct and the doling of death is better than torturing people, then why do we dole death at those who've doled death and not at those who've tortured their victims? Those who torcher without murdering should have the punishment of real LWOP, the rest of their natural life, just as the victim will emotionally and physically damaged, same as being punished the rest of their natural life from the act against them. If one murdered as well as torchered,before murdered should be torchered waiting on their death by execution, torcher is mental not physical,while awaiting the same consequences they doled out to the victim... To many antis say it is revenge to use the DP, then in the same breath say they would rather see them suffer and torchered for the length of their natural life, rot in a cell with nothing ... go figure
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Post by Rev. Agave on Jun 8, 2011 22:11:27 GMT -6
If one murdered as well as torchered,before murdered should be torchered waiting on their death by execution, torcher is mental not physical,while awaiting the same consequences they doled out to the victim... Well said!
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Katyusha
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After some deep thought and consideration-Anti
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Post by Katyusha on Jun 9, 2011 4:53:42 GMT -6
...thereby ending their torment. thats kind of lenient I think. I like the cold helll their are experiencing, the loss of hope. If anyone from my family were murdered I wouldnt want the murderer to die but to die a little bit every day, like in Russia. Not reality, many inmates do not feel it is a cold hell, they actually like being there, after sometime inside it is home to them, pps, money, cell phones, tv, library, can still target and kill who they do not like nothing to lose.. if they died a bit at a time why have so many serving real LWOPlive long lives at our expense??? I think it should be the way it is in Russia. The only comfort they get there are books, as far as I know.
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Katyusha
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After some deep thought and consideration-Anti
Posts: 474
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Post by Katyusha on Jun 9, 2011 5:35:13 GMT -6
how about combining these two things? Lets say a murderer gets the dp with a 2 year reprieve- after the 2 years he is taken to the gurney,prepared and gets an injection. Depending on how he behaved it will or will not be a deadly one. Of course, he isnt told beforehand. The hell of fear of death and the hell of a bleak existance, the best of two worlds so to speak :-) You trying to drive them insane ? As well as torcher? Then say they are retarded if they murder again inside" which they do many times..will not qualify for the DP now anyhow. That would be more mericful then the DP? Its not about "being merciful" but about deterrance and retribution. A murderer has not only wronged the victim, but also his family and the society at large. The latter one has lost its sense of security, the family will suffer psychologicaly for a long time,probably for the rest of their lives. Likewise, he should suffer. About "driving them insane"... it wouldnt be worse than it is now. The rules would be clear- For 2 years on death row, you must stick to the rules and prove that you will be no danger in the future. There would of course be regular meetings, evaluations ect with the inmate so that he will more or less get a feeling where the whole thing is heading to. Still, it would be extremly unpleaseant, because there will always be some doubts left.
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Post by arizonavet on Jun 9, 2011 6:54:58 GMT -6
You trying to drive them insane ? As well as torcher? Then say they are retarded if they murder again inside" which they do many times..will not qualify for the DP now anyhow. That would be more mericful then the DP? Its not about "being merciful" but about deterrance and retribution. A murderer has not only wronged the victim, but also his family and the society at large. The latter one has lost its sense of security, the family will suffer psychologicaly for a long time,probably for the rest of their lives. Likewise, he should suffer. About "driving them insane"... it wouldnt be worse than it is now. The rules would be clear- For 2 years on death row, you must stick to the rules and prove that you will be no danger in the future. There would of course be regular meetings, evaluations ect with the inmate so that he will more or less get a feeling where the whole thing is heading to. Still, it would be extremly unpleaseant, because there will always be some doubts left. Prison IS "deterrance".... Execution is far, far more of a deterrance. Imprisoned murderers kill again, both in prison & when they get out...and yes, they DO get out in all countries in the world. "no danger in the future"? Until God assures me of this....I believe that this concept is pure nonsense. All this talk about being "tough" by NOT executing murderers is just another smoke screen from people who don't have the stomach to execute....anybody If prison were "tougher" than execution.....men on death row wouldn't be fighting like hell to avoid execution.... Simple deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 19:42:55 GMT -6
Its not about "being merciful" but about deterrance and retribution. A murderer has not only wronged the victim, but also his family and the society at large. The latter one has lost its sense of security, the family will suffer psychologicaly for a long time,probably for the rest of their lives. Likewise, he should suffer. About "driving them insane"... it wouldnt be worse than it is now. The rules would be clear- For 2 years on death row, you must stick to the rules and prove that you will be no danger in the future. There would of course be regular meetings, evaluations ect with the inmate so that he will more or less get a feeling where the whole thing is heading to. Still, it would be extremly unpleaseant, because there will always be some doubts left. Prison IS "deterrance".... Execution is far, far more of a deterrance. Imprisoned murderers kill again, both in prison & when they get out...and yes, they DO get out in all countries in the world. "no danger in the future"? Until God assures me of this....I believe that this concept is pure nonsense. All this talk about being "tough" by NOT executing murderers is just another smoke screen from people who don't have the stomach to execute....anybody If prison were "tougher" than execution.....men on death row wouldn't be fighting like hell to avoid execution.... Simple deal. Come off it, George! You say we talk tough but that you're tougher (or at least that's how it comes across), but the truth of the matter is, you've said you wouldn't execute gang bangers who've killed other gang banger lowlifes, because they've done us a favor (or something to that effect ~ feel free to correct me if I've got it wrong). Fact is, they are far more a continued danger to society (and prison guards) than some of the murderers you'd choose to off, like those who've killed (or raped) children. That problem was solved the day they were incarcerated and so long as we continue to leave them behind bars where they belong. Seems like you're saying we have to kill people because we're too stupid, kind, whatever to be as tough as some want. Further, IMNHO, that next victim is on us, OUR fault, when we know better and release MOST murderers back into society.
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Post by honkybouffant on Jun 10, 2011 9:57:02 GMT -6
I gotta say, I do always find it laughable when the same people who consider doling death acceptable, understandable, and desirable find torture icky. Yes, torcher is yucky, many people say and I agree, I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of the pain/torcher of getting there. Also many hope they are lucky enough to die in their sleep or meriful way/ quick. I agree with everything you say here. For a meriful death, it's best to get a big keg and invite round some friends. Maybe we could even have a big celebratory fire, and hire a professional torcher to set the thing ablaze.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 10, 2011 10:08:36 GMT -6
Yes, torcher is yucky, many people say and I agree, I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of the pain/torcher of getting there. Also many hope they are lucky enough to die in their sleep or meriful way/ quick. I agree with everything you say here. For a meriful death, it's best to get a big keg and invite round some friends. Maybe we could even have a big celebratory fire, and hire a professional torcher to set the thing ablaze. Yeah thats a good example of torcher then death, some victims by the criminals have been taken out in that horrific way... Burned alive even......
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Post by honkybouffant on Jun 10, 2011 10:49:12 GMT -6
I agree with everything you say here. For a meriful death, it's best to get a big keg and invite round some friends. Maybe we could even have a big celebratory fire, and hire a professional torcher to set the thing ablaze. Yeah thats a good example of torcher then death, some victims by the criminals have been taken out in that horrific way... Burned alive even...... I agree it is horrific, and not very meriful. Even if you got quite merry before you were put on the pyre, the merriment is likely to end when the torcher sets it ablaze.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Jun 10, 2011 10:57:06 GMT -6
Yeah thats a good example of torcher then death, some victims by the criminals have been taken out in that horrific way... Burned alive even...... I agree it is horrific, and not very meriful. Even if you got quite merry before you were put on the pyre, the merriment is likely to end when the torcher sets it ablaze. Scenario: POS commits murder. 1357 - Murderer gets tied to a stake and townsfolk gather to set murderer ablaze in a glorious bonfire of justice. 2007 - Tree Huggers bytch about the chopping of trees for the wood, fire marshals get called, the ACLU files a lawsuit, and the murderer gets probation.
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Post by arizonavet on Jun 10, 2011 13:46:10 GMT -6
Prison IS "deterrance".... Execution is far, far more of a deterrance. Imprisoned murderers kill again, both in prison & when they get out...and yes, they DO get out in all countries in the world. "no danger in the future"? Until God assures me of this....I believe that this concept is pure nonsense. All this talk about being "tough" by NOT executing murderers is just another smoke screen from people who don't have the stomach to execute....anybody If prison were "tougher" than execution.....men on death row wouldn't be fighting like hell to avoid execution.... Simple deal. Come off it, George! You say we talk tough but that you're tougher (or at least that's how it comes across), but the truth of the matter is, you've said you wouldn't execute gang bangers who've killed other gang banger lowlifes, because they've done us a favor (or something to that effect ~ feel free to correct me if I've got it wrong). Fact is, they are far more a continued danger to society (and prison guards) than some of the murderers you'd choose to off, like those who've killed (or raped) children. That problem was solved the day they were incarcerated and so long as we continue to leave them behind bars where they belong. Seems like you're saying we have to kill people because we're too stupid, kind, whatever to be as tough as some want. Further, IMNHO, that next victim is on us, OUR fault, when we know better and release MOST murderers back into society. I understand the practice of exaggeration to make a point but you make a virtue out of it. OK, I hadn't thought about it, but I guess gang-bangers ARE more of a threat to guards...good point. As far as valuing the life of a innocent child, more than the life of another gang-banger, who well understood that he was in mutual combat.... Yes, true....I have no problem with readily admitting that I feel that way....I really can't believe you don't. OK, you've convinced me....execute the worst of the worst gang-bangers too.... See how convincing your charm can be? We agree almost completely on releasing murderers.....except that I would take care of the problem once and for all with some of them... You.....would not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2011 19:42:01 GMT -6
Come off it, George! You say we talk tough but that you're tougher (or at least that's how it comes across), but the truth of the matter is, you've said you wouldn't execute gang bangers who've killed other gang banger lowlifes, because they've done us a favor (or something to that effect ~ feel free to correct me if I've got it wrong). Fact is, they are far more a continued danger to society (and prison guards) than some of the murderers you'd choose to off, like those who've killed (or raped) children. That problem was solved the day they were incarcerated and so long as we continue to leave them behind bars where they belong. Seems like you're saying we have to kill people because we're too stupid, kind, whatever to be as tough as some want. Further, IMNHO, that next victim is on us, OUR fault, when we know better and release MOST murderers back into society. I understand the practice of exaggeration to make a point but you make a virtue out of it. OK, I hadn't thought about it, but I guess gang-bangers ARE more of a threat to guards...good point. As far as valuing the life of a innocent child, more than the life of another gang-banger, who well understood that he was in mutual combat.... Yes, true....I have no problem with readily admitting that I feel that way....I really can't believe you don't. OK, you've convinced me....execute the worst of the worst gang-bangers too.... Where did I exaggerate, George? I'm genuinely curious. Not sure what the 'worst of the worst' gangbangers who've murdered <anyone> might be............ ? Perhaps you've forgotten that my son was murdered by a gangbanger while he was just doing his job in a music store, and I happened to consider him just as precious at twenty as he was at six. Just perhaps if we cared when gangbangers offed each other, we'd catch more of them and prosecute them ~ no matter who their victims were ~ and lock them up permanently, it'd just maybe save innocents who aren't beneath bothering about. When we base punishment of the guilty on the worth of the victim we do ourselves and one another a huge disservice, IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 13:35:19 GMT -6
Personally I think I'd rather take a bullet in the head than suffer the ignominy and frustration of spending my life in a cage. Additionally, I think if I'd committed a horrendous crime such as to warrant the death penalty I would suffer as a result of my conscience.
However, I think that capital punishment is simply about ridding the planet of the most despicable murderers there are. I also believe that to commit the most atrocious of crimes, one must be quite mad and should be killed as an act of leniency.
I would NEVER condone torture or cruelty, but simply believe that certain criminals need to be euthanised - for their own suffering as well as society.
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Post by honkybouffant on Jul 12, 2011 15:14:27 GMT -6
Personally I think I'd rather take a bullet in the head than suffer the ignominy and frustration of spending my life in a cage. Additionally, I think if I'd committed a horrendous crime such as to warrant the death penalty I would suffer as a result of my conscience. However, I think that capital punishment is simply about ridding the planet of the most despicable murderers there are. I also believe that to commit the most atrocious of crimes, one must be quite mad and should be killed as an act of leniency. I would NEVER condone torture or cruelty, but simply believe that certain criminals need to be euthanised - for their own suffering as well as society. But they express no wish to die. So the idea that you are euthanizing them is a cheap lie. It's interesting, though, that you pros feel you have to assuage your own consciences by pretending you're in the mercy business.
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