Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 26, 2011 15:14:29 GMT -6
This should be standart for murder (if not worse...hard daily labour anyone?). Also note that murderers in Russia are normaly required to spend several years in solitary confinement.
A feeling shared by notorious British murderer Ian Brady:
As of 2011, he remains incarcerated in Ashworth. After Brady began a hunger strike in 1999 he was force-fed, fell ill, and was transferred to another hospital for tests.[148] He recovered, and in March 2000 asked for a judicial review of the decision to force-feed him, but was refused permission.[149]
Myra gets the potentially fatal brain condition, whilst I have to fight simply to die. I have had enough. I want nothing, my objective is to die and release myself from this once and for all. So you see my death strike is rational and pragmatic. I'm only sorry I didn't do it decades ago, and I'm eager to leave this cesspit in a coffin. (Wikipedia)
Death would be just too good for such scum.
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Post by arizonavet on May 26, 2011 15:32:23 GMT -6
This should be standart for murder (if not worse...hard daily labour anyone?). Also note that murderers in Russia are normaly required to spend several years in solitary confinement. A feeling shared by notorious British murderer Ian Brady: As of 2011, he remains incarcerated in Ashworth. After Brady began a hunger strike in 1999 he was force-fed, fell ill, and was transferred to another hospital for tests.[148] He recovered, and in March 2000 asked for a judicial review of the decision to force-feed him, but was refused permission.[149] Myra gets the potentially fatal brain condition, whilst I have to fight simply to die. I have had enough. I want nothing, my objective is to die and release myself from this once and for all. So you see my death strike is rational and pragmatic. I'm only sorry I didn't do it decades ago, and I'm eager to leave this cesspit in a coffin. (Wikipedia) Death would be just too good for such scum. If your total purpose is to extract retribution, or vengence...you might be right. If your purpose is to protect innocents...you're not. They get out...they escape, they are pardoned, they are paroled.... and they kill more innocents I feel the need to punish...I'm human....but the emotions I'm proudest of, is protecting the innocent.... And in the case of murder....there is only one punishment that guarantees that
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 26, 2011 15:49:48 GMT -6
They get out...they escape, they are pardoned, they are paroled....
I understand Your concerns. Still, when I look at the statistics, at least here in Europe, it doesnt happen very often. And in the US?
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Post by arizonavet on May 27, 2011 7:06:18 GMT -6
They get out...they escape, they are pardoned, they are paroled.... I understand Your concerns. Still, when I look at the statistics, at least here in Europe, it doesn't happen very often. And in the US? You are comparing "apples & oranges"... However, Europe's (not counting Russia) answer to child rape for example has been disastrous. In Germany, child abusers are released over & over, and the children suffer for it horribly. I'll give you the same reasoning I just gave Brumsongs this morning. In America, we value our freedom & independence, over all else, and sometimes we pay for it in blood. We have the bill of rights. It makes it much harder to catch criminals, but we make up for it with stiff sentences & the death penalty... Europe has no bill of rights....they simply remove freedoms, like personal ownership of guns...the right of a citizen to defend himself & his family. The family unit must lay their neck on the block & pray that the police, somehow will save them....which almost never happens in the case of a home invasion. Europe has opted for far increased freedom robbing, Socialism.... But it DOES make it far easier to over-tax & control the people, criminal apprehension included. Again....America has chosen a more virulent form of Capitalism to limit Socialism... Less control of it's citizens....less power to the government. America is a comparative "new" country...with all the violence inherent to a new country. IMHO...if we didn't allow Americans to defend their homes & family with legal weapons & concealed carry laws.... and the death penalty... We'd be in deep ca-ca.....and statistics prove it. Not Europe vs. America statistics, which mean nothing...again, "apples & oranges". But America without the death penalty and concealed carry laws.....and America WITH them. Now that's....."apples & apples"
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Post by ltdc on May 27, 2011 8:36:31 GMT -6
They get out...they escape, they are pardoned, they are paroled.... it doesnt happen very often. but when you are the "one" that later gets killed, not very often takes on a whole new meaning, doesn't it?
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Post by arizonavet on May 27, 2011 9:52:08 GMT -6
Thanks for the info on Poland's crime & punishment...very interesting.
If executions are so "easy"...
Why are 99% of death row inmates fighting so hard to avoid it?
This logic is somewhat like itdc's point.
It's a matter of "who is getting killed" ;D
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 30, 2011 14:21:57 GMT -6
Why are 99% of death row inmates fighting so hard to avoid it?
A reflex. later on, they still live by the hope of f.e the law changing. It certainly does not mean that they do not suffer in prison.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 30, 2011 14:25:19 GMT -6
We have the bill of rights.
It makes it much harder to catch criminals, but we make up for it with stiff sentences & the death penalty...
We also have a "bill of rights", the European Charter of Human rights. And Im not sure if its harder to catch s.o in the US than in Europe.
We'd be in deep ca-ca.....and statistics prove it.
Are You sure? Can You proof this?
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 1:02:57 GMT -6
We don't have a bill of rights in Australia. We don't live under a dictatorship either. Our politicians are the best comedy act in the country
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 6:59:59 GMT -6
We have the bill of rights. It makes it much harder to catch criminals, but we make up for it with stiff sentences & the death penalty... We also have a "bill of rights", the European Charter of Human rights. And Im not sure if its harder to catch s.o in the US than in Europe. We'd be in deep ca-ca.....and statistics prove it. Are You sure? Can You proof this? Still a simple fact....very easily understood.....condemned prisoners fight for their lives....because the'd rather be in prison...good or bad....than be dead. To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary. Katusha...the murder rates within each state before & after the death penalty, and/or concealed weapon laws have been enacted. have been poster here ad infinitum and nausium..... The only "statistics" anti's want to look at are between states & countries that have, or don't have the DP....phoney....apples & oranges. To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality. Katusha....the statistic I love best? Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed? I've asked this of anti's a hundred times....never an answer.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 31, 2011 7:21:13 GMT -6
To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary.
This is what the Russian and British murderers said. Yes, people fear death, but still, like when s.o knows he/she is terminally ill, the first phases are denial,anger,fight.The last one is a acceptance.
To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality
Most people dont think about th DP when they commit crimes.Because THEY will not get caught! The higher the risk of getting caught the higher the deterrence.
Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed?
Because this question is kind of a strawman. Tell me, how many people cause heavy car crashes after having both legs copped of? Or, how many people continue stealing after having a hand amputated? It just doesnt follow that we, as a society, should or need to do such drastic things to reach our goals of retribution and safety.
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 7:40:14 GMT -6
To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary. This is what the Russian and British murderers said. Yes, people fear death, but still, like when s.o knows he/she is terminally ill, the first phases are denial,anger,fight.The last one is a acceptance. To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality Most people dont think about th DP when they commit crimes.Because THEY will not get caught! The higher the risk of getting caught the higher the deterrence. Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed? Because this question is kind of a strawman. Tell me, how many people cause heavy car crashes after having both legs copped of? Or, how many people continue stealing after having a hand amputated? It just doesnt follow that we, as a society, should or need to do such drastic things to reach our goals of retribution and safety. Whatever the reason....they would far rather be put in prison, where they stand a chance of escaping & killing again.....than to be executed. Simple logic follows.....execution is more of a deterrent. The fact that people are more likely to murder, if they see less chance of being caught has nothing to do with the point/issue at hand. A "strawman" argument: Definition of STRAW MAN 1 : a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted Definition of CONFUTE transitive verb 1 : to overwhelm in argument You've "confuted" nothing....the fact that no executed murderer has EVER killed again, is the essence of this discussion.... Either execution protects the innocent from that murderer....or it does not. And execution undeniably protects the public far more effectively than prison. Here's a short list to prove that prison is a horribly ineffecient method of protecting innocents from the worst of the worst murderers. www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.htmlWe don't need a list to show how many innocents, executed murderers have killed do we? Not a "straw man" at all.....pure logic.
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Post by moretoasts on May 31, 2011 9:17:17 GMT -6
To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary. This is what the Russian and British murderers said. Yes, people fear death, but still, like when s.o knows he/she is terminally ill, the first phases are denial,anger,fight.The last one is a acceptance. To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality Most people dont think about th DP when they commit crimes.Because THEY will not get caught! The higher the risk of getting caught the higher the deterrence. Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed? Because this question is kind of a strawman. Tell me, how many people cause heavy car crashes after having both legs copped of? Or, how many people continue stealing after having a hand amputated? It just doesnt follow that we, as a society, should or need to do such drastic things to reach our goals of retribution and safety. Katiuscia, you need to get used to the fact that deterrence has always been a very important moral playground for people supporting death penalty. Killing a murderer in order to prevent another potential murderer to commit the crime= Saving a human life. In recent years these folks have been told and shown over and over that CP has NO deterrence effect, by lets say 99% of reports and analysis, they aren't yet ready to leave this moral ground to justify death penalty. So: Killing a murderer in order deter potential murderers to commit the crime= Saving a human life.just became: Killing a murderer to prevent him from murdering again=saving a human life. Funny, isn't it? You put into the debate very good points, but they won't get answers. Reports and studies also have shown that Death Penalty has a huge cost compared to LWOP. I would like these supportive guys tell me why this money can't be used to improve security standards on the streets and better prevent people from committing their FIRST murder. How many get killed by an escaped/paroled/LWOP convicted murderer compared to those killed during robberies, assaults, gangfights? Katiuscia deterrence is a joke, but these folks need it to remember to themselves they dont belong to the frying cyrcus
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Post by Felix2 on May 31, 2011 9:32:56 GMT -6
We have the bill of rights. It makes it much harder to catch criminals, but we make up for it with stiff sentences & the death penalty... We also have a "bill of rights", the European Charter of Human rights. And Im not sure if its harder to catch s.o in the US than in Europe. We'd be in deep ca-ca.....and statistics prove it. Are You sure? Can You proof this? Still a simple fact....very easily understood.....condemned prisoners fight for their lives....because the'd rather be in prison...good or bad....than be dead. To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary. Katusha...the murder rates within each state before & after the death penalty, and/or concealed weapon laws have been enacted. have been poster here ad infinitum and nausium..... The only "statistics" anti's want to look at are between states & countries that have, or don't have the DP....phoney....apples & oranges. To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality. Katusha....the statistic I love best? Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed? I've asked this of anti's a hundred times....never an answer. Did'nt think such an obvious answer needed an answer. Equally you can ask the question how many murderers who are incarcerated in secure and properly run jails have killed again? One high security hospital (psychaitric ) I frequently have to visit has never had a single escape and will never likely have one. Its secure and the death peanlty is a poor substitute for poorly run prisons.
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 11:03:01 GMT -6
Still a simple fact....very easily understood.....condemned prisoners fight for their lives....because the'd rather be in prison...good or bad....than be dead. To say an execution is easy.....is to simply ignore all hard evidence to the contrary. Katusha...the murder rates within each state before & after the death penalty, and/or concealed weapon laws have been enacted. have been poster here ad infinitum and nausium..... The only "statistics" anti's want to look at are between states & countries that have, or don't have the DP....phoney....apples & oranges. To say that LWOP IS a deterrent...but the death penalty IS NOT a deterrent......takes and incredible lack of reality. Katusha....the statistic I love best? Tell me.....how many murderers ever killed after being executed? I've asked this of anti's a hundred times....never an answer. Did'nt think such an obvious answer needed an answer. Equally you can ask the question how many murderers who are incarcerated in secure and properly run jails have killed again? One high security hospital (psychaitric ) I frequently have to visit has never had a single escape and will never likely have one. Its secure and the death peanlty is a poor substitute for poorly run prisons. Here's the difference.... A "poorly run" prison/institution releases murder after murderer, and has the lifetime of the criminal to allow this disgusting pratice to continue. PLUS.....they can be released for a myriad of reasons legally....like pardoned, even paroled.....yes, all the time LWOP prisoners are paroled.... Wheras....once they're executed....it's certain....they just can't do it again...period! The death penalty is a logical (indeed the only) "substitute" for not allowing murderers to murder again.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 31, 2011 11:52:20 GMT -6
my fault, what I meant is you are using a wrong analogy.your right, strawman would be if you claimed I am suggesting to put f.e wardens at risk. And Felix is kind of right- if you run your prisons well, meaning, instead of cramming them with f.e petty thieves to have enough human resources to allow only hand-cuffed prisoners out of the cell.
yes, all the time LWOP prisoners are paroled....
well, perhaps they are paroled when they are sick and old and dont have very much to look forward to?
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 12:03:13 GMT -6
my fault, what I meant is you are using a wrong analogy.your right, strawman would be if you claimed I am suggesting to put f.e wardens at risk. And Felix is kind of right- if you run your prisons well, meaning, instead of cramming them with f.e petty thieves to have enough human resources to allow only hand-cuffed prisoners out of the cell. yes, all the time LWOP prisoners are paroled.... well, perhaps they are paroled when they are sick and old and dont have very much to look forward to? Katyusha...I suspect you are a true "gentle soul". This is a respectful personality trait. However, they don't just get out when they are sick & old...they get out for political reasons, and simply because of overcrowding...Kenneth Mc Duff is a prime example. He got out & killed five more women. We do agree about institutionalizing petty criminals, for say, selling grass... Utterly rediculous practice....I can't confirm it, but I've heard that when the crazed killer Mc Duff was released for "overcrowding", Texas had "room" for convicted marijuana sellers. The answer to overcrowding may be two fold....don't keep grass peddlers in prison for long stretches...and execute the worst of the worst murderers.... There, an honest compromise....everybody's happy
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 31, 2011 14:01:45 GMT -6
Haha, maybe. Most people think I kind of harsh ;-) However, they don't just get out when they are sick & old...they get out for political reasons, and simply because of overcrowding...Kenneth Mc Duff is a prime example. He got out & killed five more women. Incredible, isnt it? In a working judical system (and Im not necessarily implying that the US doesnt in general have one) he would not have been released for reason of overcrowding. Sorry, it just blows by mind. He killed 3 people. Ill give you an example how such people are treated in f.e Poland: www.nowiny24.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100402/RZESZOW/291503743(you can use google translate ;-) These two have murdered 3 people in Rzeszów. In Polish law, a lifer can be released after at least 25 years,but, if the court decides that a crime was extremely heinious sentences can range from 25-50 years. In this case, they got 40 and 45 years. As the article states: Całe życie spędzą w więzieniu. (They will spend their entire lives in prison). Each of them will be 66 when they will just have the right to ask for parole, with no possibility of parole before. Probably, they will die in prison or shortly thereafter. Also, to be paroled the lifer must obtain positive opinions from wardens,psychologists and likewise professionals and others. I hope I dont sound to cynical but seriously, we dont have many cases (if any) of lifers killing again or escaping sucessfully so I think we can take this risk. But You are absolutely right-overcrowding is a huge problem, even in Europe we have it to a certain degree. It keeps us from doing real rehabilitation (instead of feeding the ganglands) for those who can be reached by it and keeping dangerous fellons locked up in maximum security while trying to tone down their violent behaviour...
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Post by arizonavet on May 31, 2011 14:35:17 GMT -6
Haha, maybe. Most people think I kind of harsh ;-) However, they don't just get out when they are sick & old...they get out for political reasons, and simply because of overcrowding...Kenneth Mc Duff is a prime example. He got out & killed five more women. Incredible, isnt it? In a working judical system (and Im not necessarily implying that the US doesnt in general have one) he would not have been released for reason of overcrowding. Sorry, it just blows by mind. He killed 3 people. Ill give you an example how such people are treated in f.e Poland: www.nowiny24.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100402/RZESZOW/291503743(you can use google translate ;-) These two have murdered 3 people in Rzeszów. In Polish law, a lifer can be released after at least 25 years,but, if the court decides that a crime was extremely heinious sentences can range from 25-50 years. In this case, they got 40 and 45 years. As the article states: Całe życie spędzą w więzieniu. (They will spend their entire lives in prison). Each of them will be 66 when they will just have the right to ask for parole, with no possibility of parole before. Probably, they will die in prison or shortly thereafter. Also, to be paroled the lifer must obtain positive opinions from wardens,psychologists and likewise professionals and others. I hope I dont sound to cynical but seriously, we dont have many cases (if any) of lifers killing again or escaping sucessfully so I think we can take this risk. But You are absolutely right-overcrowding is a huge problem, even in Europe we have it to a certain degree. It keeps us from doing real rehabilitation (instead of feeding the ganglands) for those who can be reached by it and keeping dangerous fellons locked up in maximum security while trying to tone down their violent behaviour... Katusha....Texas has since mostly "solved" their past problem of letting them out early. Poland is comparitively "easy".... Many are executed....many more, never see the light of day...ever! Texas has gone on a prison building extravaganza. I would put GPS anklets on child molestors the FIRST time they are convicted of their disgusting crime, and they would wear it for LIFE....period. I've been asked many times if I would still be pro DP if, say, hypothetically, GOD came down & guaranteed us that no murderer or child molestor/murder could ever escape. I just say "yes"....if God agreed to pay for the guaranteed incarceration. Seriously though, we'd always need a way to control prisoners who murder while in prison...particularly guards deserve protection too. Have a fine day amiga....
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Post by honkybouffant on Jun 1, 2011 2:27:44 GMT -6
This should be standart for murder (if not worse...hard daily labour anyone?). Also note that murderers in Russia are normaly required to spend several years in solitary confinement. A feeling shared by notorious British murderer Ian Brady: As of 2011, he remains incarcerated in Ashworth. After Brady began a hunger strike in 1999 he was force-fed, fell ill, and was transferred to another hospital for tests.[148] He recovered, and in March 2000 asked for a judicial review of the decision to force-feed him, but was refused permission.[149] Myra gets the potentially fatal brain condition, whilst I have to fight simply to die. I have had enough. I want nothing, my objective is to die and release myself from this once and for all. So you see my death strike is rational and pragmatic. I'm only sorry I didn't do it decades ago, and I'm eager to leave this cesspit in a coffin. (Wikipedia) Death would be just too good for such scum. If your total purpose is to extract retribution, or vengence...you might be right. If your purpose is to protect innocents...you're not. They get out...they escape, they are pardoned, they are paroled.... and they kill more innocents I feel the need to punish...I'm human....but the emotions I'm proudest of, is protecting the innocent.... And in the case of murder....there is only one punishment that guarantees that Give it a rest. If you were interested in protecting people from murderers who might kill again, as you always claim, then you should want to kill gang bangers and the like. But you don't, because they are not 'worst of the worst'. On the other hand, a rapist pedophile murderer who has lost the use of his arms is unlikely to kill again. Worst of the worst, but not a risk. Yet you want to kill that guy. Moreover, you want to kill Julian Assange for publishing things you don't like. Heck, you want to kill him because he exposes murderers in the armed forces.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Jun 7, 2011 8:29:16 GMT -6
Watching that video has given me a new lease on life and how we should deal with scum. First we should break them down the way that Russia does, and then we can execute them.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on Jun 8, 2011 10:30:58 GMT -6
...thereby ending their torment. thats kind of lenient I think. I like the cold helll their are experiencing, the loss of hope. If anyone from my family were murdered I wouldnt want the murderer to die but to die a little bit every day, like in Russia.
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Post by arizonavet on Jun 8, 2011 11:04:04 GMT -6
...thereby ending their torment. thats kind of lenient I think. I like the cold helll their are experiencing, the loss of hope. If anyone from my family were murdered I wouldnt want the murderer to die but to die a little bit every day, like in Russia. No, Katusha....that is one of the problems...there is always a hope...they escape, they are pardoned....they seem to thoroughly enjoy themselves, shanking each other in prisons....murdering guards....looking forward to a future of glorious mayhem... Hey, talk about "hope". You want to talk about hope..... Imagine you're being led by a couple of burly guards & a sad chaplin to a brightly lit room where your death-gurney waits.....and a few of your victims family, with hate burning in their eyes.... OK, I'll admit, perhaps a scum-pal or two....sniffling quietly, under the protection of the guards, because the victims family in not really in a scum-pal-kind-of-a-mood... And there is nothing on earth you can do about it... Now THIS is the definition of "hopeless"......and only then will innocents be safe from your depredations. Seriously, this isn't a "game" of "what's worse"..... It's protection for innocents....and the DP undeniably works far better.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on Jun 8, 2011 15:56:04 GMT -6
how about combining these two things? Lets say a murderer gets the dp with a 2 year reprieve- after the 2 years he is taken to the gurney,prepared and gets an injection. Depending on how he behaved it will or will not be a deadly one. Of course, he isnt told beforehand. The hell of fear of death and the hell of a bleak existance, the best of two worlds so to speak :-)
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 8, 2011 17:03:19 GMT -6
...thereby ending their torment. thats kind of lenient I think. I like the cold helll their are experiencing, the loss of hope. If anyone from my family were murdered I wouldnt want the murderer to die but to die a little bit every day, like in Russia. Not reality, many inmates do not feel it is a cold hell, they actually like being there, after sometime inside it is home to them, pps, money, cell phones, tv, library, can still target and kill who they do not like nothing to lose.. if they died a bit at a time why have so many serving real LWOPlive long lives at our expense???
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 8, 2011 17:23:06 GMT -6
how about combining these two things? Lets say a murderer gets the dp with a 2 year reprieve- after the 2 years he is taken to the gurney,prepared and gets an injection. Depending on how he behaved it will or will not be a deadly one. Of course, he isnt told beforehand. The hell of fear of death and the hell of a bleak existance, the best of two worlds so to speak :-) You trying to drive them insane ? As well as torcher? Then say they are retarded if they murder again inside" which they do many times..will not qualify for the DP now anyhow. That would be more mericful then the DP?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 21:11:10 GMT -6
...thereby ending their torment. thats kind of lenient I think. I like the cold helll their are experiencing, the loss of hope. If anyone from my family were murdered I wouldnt want the murderer to die but to die a little bit every day, like in Russia. Not reality, many inmates do not feel it is a cold hell, they actually like being there, after sometime inside it is home to them, pps, money, cell phones, tv, library, can still target and kill who they do not like nothing to lose.. if they died a bit at a time why have so many serving real LWOPlive long lives at our expense??? So, because we're complete and utter idiots who think it'd be cruel to deprive those who've wronged society of those things most of us consider LUXURIES, we just have to kill them. I guess I get it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 21:14:29 GMT -6
I gotta say, I do always find it laughable when the same people who consider doling death acceptable, understandable, and desirable find torture icky.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jun 8, 2011 21:36:23 GMT -6
I gotta say, I do always find it laughable when the same people who consider doling death acceptable, understandable, and desirable find torture icky. Yes, torcher is yucky, many people say and I agree, I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of the pain/torcher of getting there. Also many hope they are lucky enough to die in their sleep or meriful way/ quick. Death is acceptable in many cases for many reasons. To allow torcher is unexceptable and inhumane. Sometimes inhumane to others around them not to be put to sleep forever.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 21:50:29 GMT -6
I gotta say, I do always find it laughable when the same people who consider doling death acceptable, understandable, and desirable find torture icky. Yes, torcher is yucky, many people say and I agree, I am not afraid of dying, I am afraid of the pain/torcher of getting there. Also many hope they are lucky enough to die in their sleep or meriful way/ quick. Death is acceptable in many cases for many reasons. To allow torcher is unexceptable and inhumane. Sometimes inhumane to others around them not to be put to sleep forever. Assuming we're both talking about inflicting pain on people who've wronged society and not firestarters, if you are correct and the doling of death is better than torturing people, then why do we dole death at those who've doled death and not at those who've tortured their victims?
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