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Post by phatkat on Jan 31, 2010 7:59:35 GMT -6
I gave you an answer. Here it is: "I would choose someone I trust, someone my kids liked, someone who happened to be available at the time I needed a sitter. That may or may not include an imperfect mental health history, but as long as I knew that person was taking care of him/herself and was not in the throes of depression or psychosis, I would be good with it." As brums said, it would not be a dealbreaker.
It's basically along the same lines that I would let a diabetic watch my children as long as I knew that person was taking care of him/herself to minimize the chances that s/he would pass out while alone with my children, or an epileptic that is taking medication so as not to have a seizure, etc. As I tell clients, mental illness is just a condition you have to manage like any other medical condition.
I was not going to reveal this because I'm guessing you'll have little to no empathy or real understanding, but I will follow Brums' lead and inform you that I, too, have been treated for mental health issues (anxiety/depression - no psychosis); I also have a hormone imbalance that makes me more susceptible to both of those things. I have learned to manage myself and my stress level quite well and I understand that, given my profession, I have to do so or take a break from it. I have not been incapacitated by a mental health condition since 2002. I wouldn't meet diagnostic criteria today. It's a small part of my life that doesn't define me. I am fully human.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 31, 2010 8:36:13 GMT -6
First of all, don't make any assumptions about the lack of or timeliness of any response. If I or anyone else at this board decides to go back and respond to an earlier thread it is just that; a response to an earlier thread.
For example, my comment about your position on some mentally ill people being sub-human is still valid and is yet to be fully addressed. In addition, you stated black people are special. Please explain.
Additionally, your ego and condescension go beyond the pale. In a recent post, you state that nothing will change your position and that continued debate is pointless. So be it, then why degrade and berate those that disagree with you? Additionally, your question, and a cornerstone of the continuation of discussion here, is leaving children in the care of a depressed person. Anyone that answers in the affirmative is automatically wrong and must defend their position. I would ask you the same; your question is vague and at a minimum very subjective to individual opinions. By your definition, my wife should not be allowed to watch or care for our grandson. It is a very broad brush you paint with mcbox; and before you take apart my comments why don't you grace us with your insights. WE, collectively, have opened up personal and sometimes painful experiences that are the basis for our opinions. Or is your position still that you are holier than thou and it is beneath you to respond?
If you are being attacked, it is because you make statements that are offensive and you do not offer a convincing rebuttal or experience to defend you position.
Because I said so is not a suitable answer. Additionally, I have grow tired because you do not understand and never will is unacceptable as well.
My initial advice was taken as a slap or condemnation. It was in fact, advice on dealing with a new social circle; the accepted norms and values and a view on communicating effectively within that social circle. If I came off a heavy handed or terse I apologize as my delivery is often confused as being very directive and coercive in nature. But, an observation; if you are schooled, either professionally or by experience, in personal interactions and mental conditions then why did you not see the real premise behind my advice? Additionally, upon review you will see that only after you started grabbing and swinging at any and all comments that seemed against you or your position did I respond. It is very telling, very telling indeed. I was passing the very lessons I had learned here on to you. You were the one that chose to become defensive and take on all comers. I will restate an earlier comment. If you are disagreeing with everyone and if no one understands your point, then maybe you are wrong. I will add this as well, maybe your point wasn't made as clearly as you would like and many of us still don't understand it. In the end, the burden still lies with you to make us understand whether we agree or not. You are the one that is attempting to be heard and accepted here not the rest of us. Please note that I stated 'accepted' not 'agreed'. I can safely say that Felix, Ben, Lynne and Kay will never ever agree with me concerning my position on the death penalty. We do, however, accept each other’s positions.
Take my comments for what they are worth, which may be 2 cents, or not. It matters very little to me now. I just can't stand being called out for late or absent responses.
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 9:37:29 GMT -6
WTF. Brums, I didn't ask you to relocate to an adjacent galaxy and reply to my questions from there. Instead of answering the questions directed at you, you chose to jump on over into a discussion between myself and phatkat. You can start by re-winding all the way to page 2, I believe, and clarify with some proof that Winston Churchill was ever diagnosed with manic depression.
phatkat, you understand that you did not choose one of the two options I gave. Can you explain to me why? Yeah, I know you're only going to say, "I just did!", but I want you to repeat yourself into oblivion because your explanation is not befitting of a proper defense. In my eyes, it's a plea of submission.
Subs, I will make assumptions about the timeliness of a response that illuminates the poster's total knowledge of the conversation with a glowing red sign that reads, "Hey guys, what's going on? Oh, for shame mcbox, for shame". Every question that you insist I answer, which has been answered in this very thread somewhere amongst its pages in direction to the people who know what's going on. I am not going to repeat myself any more. If you care that much to know, you'll find it yourself. Wait, what am I saying, after actually reading your post, I see that none of this matters much to you now anyhow - as if it ever did.
I am being attacked because I hurt some professionals' feelings on the subject. They're offended, but by their very presence, being in opposition of the death penalty, they are offending me and every one of their victims. Do you hear me crying about that? Otherwise, I feel this would have been dropped long ago in my original post that stated these were my opinions. Depression is a wrench that phatkat so carefully placed into the machine, not I.
Again, if you had actually read my posts, some of which are wholly dedicated to accounts of personal experiences, you'd know what the hell was going on.
Because I do have opposition in my face does not mean I am wrong, either. You should know that, seaman.
Your ~advice was meant to silence me in the face of what seemed, to you, as an obvious defeat. I do not need your instruction on where my boundaries are. This is what I saw, because you were attempting to come in and have the ego to end this whole thing with a single post. What was I supposed to say? - "Oh. Yeah, you're right, I'm sorry everyone. I make those broad and sweeping statements without thinking and did it just to get a rise out of some people who, before making the post, had not introduced themselves as mental health professionals to me". A single post that closed with a question that had already been addressed - a question that was testament to your awareness of where we were in the discussion, where we had been, and to have any inkling as to where it might end up.
I want you to explain to me why Felix and phatkat did not get the same speech when they attempted an argument with another kind of professional in his area of expertise under my thread 'The Myth of Incarcerated Restraint'.
In short, shut up Sub.
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Post by Californian on Jan 31, 2010 10:00:31 GMT -6
I am being attacked because I hurt some professionals' feelings on the subject. Nah. It's because you're just another noob acting like an a$$hole. We see that here all the time. They never last. |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 10:25:49 GMT -6
It's not hard to figure out why, due to the rampant level of adolescent chatter around here.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on Jan 31, 2010 10:27:49 GMT -6
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Post by brumsongs on Jan 31, 2010 11:40:32 GMT -6
Read Storr's "Churchill's Black Dog" and make up your own mind. If you think I am mounting a one man investigation into Churchill's medical consultations in order to satisfy the fevered ego of a beligerent Timothy McVeigh lookalike with delusions of adequacy then I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you.
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Post by Californian on Jan 31, 2010 11:45:10 GMT -6
It's not hard to figure out why, due to the rampant level of adolescent chatter around here. I'm sure that's it. In a month, you'll be a memory, if anyone can remember you at all. |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 12:03:12 GMT -6
I have already read Black Dog. It was Churchill's self-account of what might have been mental affliction. I remain unconvinced. You only have about 50 more valid points to address, slacker. Your delusions of adequacy far surpass my own. You believe that merely by possessing tangible evidence of knowledge does it dismiss any further outside argument or insight into your own area of expertise. phatkat remains the only one that actually provides a decent position in her rebuttals. I say you're a chickensh!t.
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Post by phatkat on Jan 31, 2010 14:47:27 GMT -6
phatkat, you understand that you did not choose one of the two options I gave. Can you explain to me why? Yeah, I know you're only going to say, "I just did!", but I want you to repeat yourself into oblivion because your explanation is not befitting of a proper defense. In my eyes, it's a plea of submission. Because your question is ridiculous, that's why. It's along the lines of asking someone if they prefer a blonde babysitter or a brunette babysitter, or a 20-year-old babysitter or a 60-year-old babysitter, or a babysitter that lives next door versus one who lives across town. It's a choice between two broad categories when any moron choosing a babysitter would take numerous factors into consideration. Two things here: (a) you do not KNOW what I'm going to say. EVER. (b) I would never be submissive to you. EVER. Seriously, you're getting creepy. If you consider this to be "attacked", then I'd hate to see what would happen to you if you were really attacked. And they let you work with inmates? Do you cry when they call you a name? And if the fact that there are people that disagree with you offends you, then you must live your life in a constant state of anxiety. I only wish I had the time and mental energy to be offended by every single person in the world that doesn't see eye-to-eye with me on everything. I imagine I'd either be a basketcase or a total a$$hole. And yes, I hear you crying about that. You just did. I'm assuming that the "their victims" in your sentence means the victims of murderers, although grammatically, it would read that the victims belong to the antis on this board. To my knowledge, none of us have created any victims. Anyway, you may or may not have realized by now that there are those who have lived through the horror of having a family member murdered who are here. Some are actually against the death penalty; most of the others have not given me a clue that my presence on this board is offensive to them. Maybe you shouldn't speak for everyone. I'm pretty sure you're the only person offended. And in case you haven't noticed, there are more than just mental health professionals here who think that your whole "subhuman" thing is a load of crap. Wow. I posted one thing on that thread that was a legitimate, impersonal point that wasn't even all that much of a disagreement with you, and it didn't even apply to your field unless you're a lawyer or historian. (The question I posed challenged what our founding fathers might have intended to be the definition of cruel and unusual punishment.) |
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Post by phatkat on Jan 31, 2010 15:01:57 GMT -6
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Post by brumsongs on Jan 31, 2010 15:10:40 GMT -6
I have already read Black Dog. It was Churchill's self-account of what might have been mental affliction. I remain unconvinced. You only have about 50 more valid points to address, slacker. Your delusions of adequacy far surpass my own. You believe that merely by possessing tangible evidence of knowledge does it dismiss any further outside argument or insight into your own area of expertise. phatkat remains the only one that actually provides a decent position in her rebuttals. I say you're a chickensh!t. It's a different book. www.amazon.co.uk/Churchills-Black-Other-Phenomena-Human/dp/0006375669/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264972100&sr=8-1And yes, I'm chickenshit, known for it round here. I'm intimidated by your intellect and have to go. |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 15:14:30 GMT -6
No, it's far from ridiculous. The parameters had almost nothing to do with physical attributes, but you're trying to say they did, of course to dodge your way out of fessing up. I don't buy it, and you need to either admit it, or shut up about it. You're just too afraid to answer it appropriately. I'll forever believe that you would rather leave your child in the care of a schizophrenic without a history of psychosis. Depression is not an all-inclusive example. Remember what I told you about the caps lock key; you said I wasn't special, but I seem to be the only one getting it.
My biological father was murdered when I was 4. He was shot in the head 3 times in a robbery situation. His funeral was one of the earliest memories I can recall. I have pictures put away of the coffin in the funeral ceremony, and the heavy makeup that was used to cover the holes if you'd like to see them.
You're a load of crap. You and your cleavage. Can I get some more lame-horse commentary? No, forget it, I'm done with you. Now, go here: anti-deathpenalty.com and find a place in the world.
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 15:16:36 GMT -6
You join her, too, Quasimodo the Acoustic.
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Post by Felix2 on Jan 31, 2010 15:18:16 GMT -6
I have already read Black Dog. It was Churchill's self-account of what might have been mental affliction. I remain unconvinced. You only have about 50 more valid points to address, slacker. Your delusions of adequacy far surpass my own. You believe that merely by possessing tangible evidence of knowledge does it dismiss any further outside argument or insight into your own area of expertise. phatkat remains the only one that actually provides a decent position in her rebuttals. I say you're a chickensh!t. It's a different book. www.amazon.co.uk/Churchills-Black-Other-Phenomena-Human/dp/0006375669/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264972100&sr=8-1And yes, I'm chickenshit, known for it round here. I'm intimidated by your intellect and have to go. I love the sarcasm LMAO  This half with is entertaining though |
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Post by Felix2 on Jan 31, 2010 15:21:40 GMT -6
No, it's far from ridiculous. The parameters had almost nothing to do with physical attributes, but you're trying to say they did, of course to dodge your way out of fessing up. I don't buy it, and you need to either admit it, or shut up about it. You're just too afraid to answer it appropriately. I'll forever believe that you would rather leave your child in the care of a schizophrenic without a history of psychosis. Depression is not an all-inclusive example. Remember what I told you about the caps lock key; you said I wasn't special, but I seem to be the only one getting it. My biological father was murdered when I was 4. He was shot in the head 3 times in a robbery situation. His funeral was one of the earliest memories I can recall. I have pictures put away of the coffin in the funeral ceremony, and the heavy makeup that was used to cover the holes if you'd like to see them. You're a load of crap. You and your cleavage. Can I get some more lame-horse commentary? No, forget it, I'm done with you. Now, go here: anti-deathpenalty.com and find a place in the world. Well well, the newbie is telling the established members to go elsewhere. I think he is beginning to throw the toys out of the stroller! Mcbox, it seems you have had your fun so why dont you just crawl back under what ever rock yuo got out from under a few days back? Your short reputation is in tatters. One thing anti and pros on this board have a short fuse for are morons. You have established yourself as one, job done I'd say? |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 15:22:22 GMT -6
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Post by Felix2 on Jan 31, 2010 15:29:44 GMT -6
come on now, I am sure you can contain your anger and embarassment better than that! ;D With the exception of a notable idiot from around last year, I have to admit you are a close second. |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 15:47:33 GMT -6
Mockery, you educated twit.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jan 31, 2010 16:13:31 GMT -6
Reminds me of Pac Man game lol
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Post by phatkat on Jan 31, 2010 16:25:11 GMT -6
No, it's far from ridiculous. The parameters had almost nothing to do with physical attributes, but you're trying to say they did, of course to dodge your way out of fessing up. I don't buy it, and you need to either admit it, or shut up about it. You're just too afraid to answer it appropriately. I'll forever believe that you would rather leave your child in the care of a schizophrenic without a history of psychosis. Depression is not an all-inclusive example. Remember what I told you about the caps lock key; you said I wasn't special, but I seem to be the only one getting it. My biological father was murdered when I was 4. He was shot in the head 3 times in a robbery situation. His funeral was one of the earliest memories I can recall. I have pictures put away of the coffin in the funeral ceremony, and the heavy makeup that was used to cover the holes if you'd like to see them. You're a load of crap. You and your cleavage. Can I get some more lame-horse commentary? No, forget it, I'm done with you. Now, go here: anti-deathpenalty.com and find a place in the world. Tell ya what: I'll answer your ridiculous question, even though I believe it is a lose/lose question designed only to entrap, me if one other person in this discussion agrees with you that it is important to this discussion that I answer it. In the meantime, what you choose to believe of me has no effect on my life. FYI: psychosis is a defining characteristic of schizophrenia. You're the only one I'm talking to, silly. Look at other posts I've made in other topics. I'm quite the fan of the caps lock; again, faster than bolding.  I am genuinely sorry about your father, but I doubt the photos would sway my opinion on the death penalty. I know that murder is a horrific tragedy. My opinion on the DP is not because I take murder lightly. I've found my place in this world; that's what half of this discussion was about, if you've forgotten already. And furthermore, my cleavage is awesome. ;D |
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Post by mcbox on Jan 31, 2010 17:52:55 GMT -6
You created the trap when you claimed that the mentally ill are not unpredictable, and therefore dangerous. It is by your design that the scenario serves my argument.
Now, let's hear it.
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Post by Elric of Melnibone on Jan 31, 2010 17:59:35 GMT -6
Anyone can be dangerous if they choose to be so. It does not take a lot of physical strength to pull a trigger on a firearm.
And dang near anything can be a weapon, if someone is mad and angry enough to use it so.
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Post by Felix2 on Jan 31, 2010 18:14:47 GMT -6
You created the trap when you claimed that the mentally ill are not unpredictable, and therefore dangerous. It is by your design that the scenario serves my argument. Now, let's hear it. Most mentally ill individuals and their behaviour can and is expected to be predictable. Its for this reason that mental health professionals will frequenlty be criticised in a coroners court when an individual well known to them behaves in a way that professionals deem ought to have been predicable. As for unpredicability, it is erroneous to assume that such behaviour only applies to those of us who have some sort of serious mental illness, I note this amongst many in the general population. You have arrived on this board and made some arrogant and judgement comments about a vulnerable group of people in society. From my own experience those who display a need to describe others as sub-human or in some way less than themselves and the rest of the population, such people merely end up placing their own insecurities and feelings of inferiority on display. Such attacks are frequenly born of such inferior feelings, so my suggestion is rather than expose this further in clashes with Phatcat and others, you reflect a while and resist what must be for you, the overwhelming urge to retort with a response that others will merely see as a thinly veiled cover for your own perceived in adequacies. Your views of the "inmates" you say you oversee have been commented on by formidable members of this board from both sides of the death penalty debate. If that is not a cause for reflection on your part then you will demonstrate only that you are a fool. |
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Post by Californian on Jan 31, 2010 18:17:18 GMT -6
I think he is beginning to throw the toys out of the stroller! |
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Post by phatkat on Feb 1, 2010 9:00:31 GMT -6
All I have to say would echo what everyone else said. Not all mentally ill people are unpredictable and dangerous, and not all "sane" people are predictable and safe.
And as I said, I will try to come up with a new answer to the logical fallacy of a question if more than one person would agree that my answer would benefit the discussion. (Even though my original answer was the most honest and complete answer that I have, and anything else would be only a portion of the truth.)
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Post by mcbox on Feb 1, 2010 9:20:33 GMT -6
Yeah.  Can you say 'appeal to authority'? |
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Post by mcbox on Feb 9, 2010 12:41:00 GMT -6
Now that you're back from your vacation, phatkat, we can continue. You're up.
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Post by phatkat on Feb 9, 2010 13:21:55 GMT -6
I didn't go anywhere, I have nothing left to say that hasn't already been said, and you're not open to hearing what I've already said, which is a choice that you have. I thought this thread was dead and buried, which is likely where it belongs.
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Post by mcbox on Feb 9, 2010 13:34:57 GMT -6
#176. Answer it.
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Can you say 'appeal to authority'?
