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Post by Steve on Dec 22, 2003 5:43:52 GMT -6
Just out of curiosity, I'm not totally clear on it. I'm not trying to defend what Malvo did during the sniper killings. But i was under the impression that if a juvenile commits a crime (under the age of 18) they cannot be tried for execution. Malvo committed the crime at 17 and was left in jail till he basically turned 18, then put on trial. Then why does he have a chance of receiving the death penalty? For me thats wrong and there is a loop hole in the justice system. Anyone shed any light?
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Post by Chris on Dec 22, 2003 11:15:57 GMT -6
Hi Steve,
the USA seems to be the only country in the world that executes juveniles. The last executions of juveniles outside the USA took place in 2001 in Pakistan and Iran, but both countries have since abolished the DP for perpetrators < 18 yrs.
In the USA, the minimum age requirements for the DP depend on the state:
16: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming
17: Florida, Georgia, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Texas
18: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Washington, Federal civilian government, Federal military Since reinstatement of the DP, 22 juveniles were executed:
Texas: 13 Virginia: 3 Oklahoma: 2 Georgia: 1 Louisiana: 1 Missouri: 1 South Carolina: 1
De facto, most states have abandoned this practice. In the meantime, the juvenile DP is largely restricted to the rabid pro-DP states, that is, TX, VA & OK.
It's an open secret that Malvo's trial was moved to VA exactly for the purpose of securing him a death sentence and to increase the likelihood of execution.
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Post by Jochen on Dec 22, 2003 13:33:18 GMT -6
Hi Steve, the USA seems to be the only country in the world that executes juveniles. The last executions of juveniles outside the USA took place in 2001 in Pakistan and Iran, but both countries have since abolished the DP for perpetrators < 18 yrs. In the USA, the minimum age requirements for the DP depend on the state: 16: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, Wyoming 17: Florida, Georgia, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Texas 18: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Maryland, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Tennessee, Washington, Federal civilian government, Federal military Since reinstatement of the DP, 22 juveniles were executed: Texas: 13 Virginia: 3 Oklahoma: 2 Georgia: 1 Louisiana: 1 Missouri: 1 South Carolina: 1 De facto, most states have abandoned this practice. In the meantime, the juvenile DP is largely restricted to the rabid pro-DP states, that is, TX, VA & OK. It's an open secret that Malvo's trial was moved to VA exactly for the purpose of securing him a death sentence and to increase the likelihood of execution. Yes. That's shamefull by Jhon Ashcroft and there's no doubt about the quality to put human beeings to death if they've commited a crime under the age of 18. America was excluded from the UN- commite of Human Rights a few years ago. I hope for this Nation that the next governments more will look behind international dialouges and once hopefully because of insight to this aspects they will abolish the death sentences for juveneiles. Otherwise they could abolish the adult status at all if this doesn't take effect in the question of CP.
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Post by Steve on Dec 22, 2003 16:54:04 GMT -6
Point taken you two, but then again isn't that verging on wrong, in the fact that they moved it their exactly for securing a death sentence. I know Malvo had his own agenda, but it seems American justice does too? Am I not right on this one? Like i said before, I'm against the death penalty but I agree he deserves it, however, he is a juvenile all the same. Seems both parties have wrong agenda's in this case.
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Post by Leah on Dec 22, 2003 19:54:48 GMT -6
Malvo knew exactly what he was doing when he shot those people. He was 17 years old. Old enough to know very well the consequences of your actions. I absolutely think he should be executed. I feel bad for the victims. Leah
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Post by Chris on Dec 23, 2003 15:51:52 GMT -6
Correct. Actually MD would've been the most logical place for a trial (state where the majority of murders occured & where Malvo and Muhammad were arrested). Which once again highlights the most obvious problem of the DP - its arbitrariness. It seems Ashcroft & Co. are well aware of the huge differences in the application of the DP between different states...
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Post by Bob on Dec 23, 2003 18:56:57 GMT -6
Malvo gets life rather than death.
In 2004, the Supreme Court is likely to take up the issue of the juvenile death penalty (appeal of the Missouri ruling declaring it unconstitutional). I would guess that the Supremes will hold that American standards have turned against it and it will be banned by the end of the year.
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Goldblum
Regular
Pro in Theory
Posts: 271
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Post by Goldblum on Dec 24, 2003 10:10:59 GMT -6
I think it's bad to set a minimum age limit for the death penalty. Let them be tried and decided on a case-by-case basis.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2003 16:22:39 GMT -6
Lee Malvo was 17 yrs 8 months when he murdered Linda Franklin in front of her husband at a Home Depot in August of 2002. It is the height of hypocrisy to pretend some maturation process would have occurred in the 120 days before he turned 18 and given his boastful performance before interrogators following his capture, its obvious no change did occur.
Here's a few fact to consider, at 17 a young man may: join the military, get married, drop out of school, drive a car, be declared an emancipated minor and make other life altering decisions having adult consequences. Those who oppose capital punishment would be on firmer ground to stay with their general principles than the ridiculous "they're executing children" gambit.
Incidentally. Malvo will probably have at least three more capital trials. The Franklin murder is not the one Mohammed was condemned for which also occurred in Virginia so another Virginia jury has a "shot"at him. Then there are the sniper killings in Maryland and unrelated murders in Alabama and Louisiana. Malvo got a split decision in Hampton Roads, he'll need a trifecta to save his sorry butt before this is through and I wouldn't bet on it.
He could be saved by a Supreme Court decision setting 18 as the minimum age for DP, but don't count on it. Looks like Bush may easily win reelection if the war and the economy continue to go in his favor. In which case he will undoubtedly be making Supreme Court appointments with a Senate more inclined to confirm (far more vulnerable Democratic seats up for grabs in 2004).
And don't "credit" Ashcroft with the use of the DP. Most cases are due to State, not Federal, action and reflect the will of the electorate. This is why Maryland has lifted the moritorium on the DP and why Florida wrote it into their constitution as amendment #1 in the 2000 elections. Most Americans want the option of the DP and all Americans have a say in their regional judicial system via the popularly elected State government. Europeans do not have as responsive a system but refuse to acknowledge that as a violation of democratic rights. We respect the right of Europeans to delegate their soverignity to unresponsive E.U. bureaucracies if they chose. However, if they wish to criticize our right to retain our popular choice.......screw'em.
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