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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2003 9:28:19 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2003 5:35:40 GMT -6
tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=54428Well, guess not. Ralph Menzies gets a stay of his date with the firing squad. I sure hope that Utah investigates costs associated with switching to LI if indeed a mode switch winds up being passed before any further executions resume in Utah. I sense more possible legislation to this end coming. Utah seems to pride itself on not being California, but if things like this keep happening, well...
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Post by Donnie on Oct 25, 2003 8:26:15 GMT -6
The most important cost associated with abandonment of the death penalty is the cost in innocent lives. The failure to use the death penalty causes an increase in the number of innocent lives taken by murderers. Another important cost, the elimination of justice, cannot be calculated in dollars.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2003 8:53:44 GMT -6
I think it's a stretch (well, it is a stretch) to say that using LI (lethal injection) is "abandoning the death penalty". It may be easier on the prisoner, which I admit I don't much like, but it still ends the life of the prisoner. I just wonder if maybe LI is an expensive mode of execution, as compared to firing squad. That's why I hope legislation to change to LI doesn't go through.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2003 19:00:28 GMT -6
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redbreeze2001yahoocom
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Post by redbreeze2001yahoocom on Dec 11, 2003 23:00:20 GMT -6
I would like to know when they plan on executing Troy Kell.Please keep me informed.I have no stake in this.I just want to know.
Thank you, redbreeze2001
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Post by TIm C on Dec 15, 2003 17:44:17 GMT -6
Thats right, its impossible to lock criminals up, states and nations without the DP must have higher murder rates. Ohh hold on............. The most important cost associated with abandonment of the death penalty is the cost in innocent lives. The failure to use the death penalty causes an increase in the number of innocent lives taken by murderers. Another important cost, the elimination of justice, cannot be calculated in dollars.
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Post by Donnie on Dec 15, 2003 18:20:12 GMT -6
That would be true if the lives saved by executions were the only factor that influenced the murder rate. However, there are many factors. Thus the number of innocent lives saved cannot be determined by a simplistic comparison of murder rates. On the other hand, Washington DC doesn't have the DP and there are no states with a higher murder rate or even with a murder rate that is close to DC. Thats right, its impossible to lock criminals up, states and nations without the DP must have higher murder rates. Ohh hold on.............
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Scott
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"Capital punishment is a government program, so skepticism is in order." (George Will)
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Post by Scott on Dec 15, 2003 20:05:39 GMT -6
Well, imagine a situation where there are literally hundreds (or more) causes of murder – and the presence or absence of the death penalty is only one incredibly tiny factor. And then suppose that there are a bunch of nuts claiming that each execution saves 34 innocent lives and that we need to deal with our crime problem by executing more people. Thinking of all the possible ways to reduce murder, wouldn’t that be kind of crazy? Welcome to reality, 101, lol. That would be true if the lives saved by executions were the only factor that influenced the murder rate. However, there are many factors. Thus the number of innocent lives saved cannot be determined by a simplistic comparison of murder rates. On the other hand, Washington DC doesn't have the DP and there are no states with a higher murder rate or even with a murder rate that is close to DC.
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Post by Donnie on Dec 15, 2003 21:40:05 GMT -6
Saving 400 to 1000 innocent lives each year may seem incredibly tiny to you. But it is quite significant to the 400 to 1000 people whose lives are spared, as well as their families and friends. It is also significant to the 400 to 1000 murderers who are deterred each year. Not being a murderer is significantly different from being a murderer. It is a good thing that there aren't a bunch of nuts claiming that each execution saves 34 innocent lives each year. It is possible that the number may be that high, but I have never seen anybody claim that it was that high. The highest claim that I have seen is 28 innocent lives saved by each additional execution. That was presented as part of a range of between 8 and 28. But if we assume that the high estimate is off by a factor of 10, that is still almost 3 innocent lives saved for each additional execution. That is just from the deterrent effect. It completely ignores the hundreds of people who have been killed by murderers who weren't executed after being convicted of their first known murder. The use of merciful executions does not, in any way, prevent the use of other methods of preventing murder. Once someone discovers such methods, they can be used while the use of the DP continues to save lives. Well, imagine a situation where there are literally hundreds (or more) causes of murder – and the presence or absence of the death penalty is only one incredibly tiny factor. And then suppose that there are a bunch of nuts claiming that each execution saves 34 innocent lives and that we need to deal with our crime problem by executing more people. Thinking of all the possible ways to reduce murder, wouldn’t that be kind of crazy? Welcome to reality, 101, lol.
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Post by Tim C on Dec 16, 2003 9:31:12 GMT -6
Personally I think each execution saves exactly zero innocent lives, the fact that some published papers claim each execution will save X amount of lives is meaningless especially when the majority of studies show it has no effect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2003 15:31:39 GMT -6
I agree, Tim, however, I think we need to stop acting like any aspect of the penal system will have a deterrent effect on anything. I do, however, believe in fair punishment, and therefore the firing squad for murder.
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