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Post by Grey on Mar 25, 2009 7:05:44 GMT -6
But it still remains true that putting pressure on countries to abolish the dp is a certain way of gettind rid of it. Dude, when Euros tell us to abolish the DP, it makes us want to execute even more just to prove a point. Especially TX. As long as the SCOTUS says it is constitutional, capital punishment will exist in TX and like-minded states.. If the DP is abolished, all of them on DR would have to go before the DP does. Nobody likes retroactive laws, especially if people have been convicted to die. The way I see it if the DP does go..those on DR will still recieve their punishment and anyone up to the point where no one can be convicted of death anymore. Then its all LWOP-hopefully-unless they go the Canadian forgivness route.
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Post by RED on Mar 25, 2009 7:12:26 GMT -6
Correct. Indeed, in 1989 there were 16 executions in the U.S. Then, 10 years later, there were 98. For those that do not recall that far, that was the year when a panicked AI stated that the U.S. machinery of death was "out of control". Love, RED Laugh away! Thats fine by me. It's the truth and you know it. It may not be this year it may not be in the next 10 years I may not live long enough to see it...but it's coming. Listen you can hear the foundations being chipped away. Sure you can. Study history TimS, in the US the death penalty dwindled away in the 60's after being in decline for decades and many activists were predicting its demise. Then followed a decade long moratorium from 1967 to 1977. 10 solid years without an execution. Since 1977 however, the US has executed 1,156 inmates and there are another 3,000 or more inmates on death row. Study history, not the predictions of activist groups.
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Post by HANGMAN1981 on Mar 25, 2009 16:24:02 GMT -6
WE could care less what EU or the UN want. I know WE/US don't care, but I'm pretty sure Pres. Hussein and his minions will bend over backwards for both of them in the coming times. Yes I know, and I hope Hussein falls flat on his face and his term is looked at as being another Mayor Dinkins.
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Post by HANGMAN1981 on Mar 25, 2009 16:26:38 GMT -6
The last thing i will say is this, Hangman1981 and to all the others here and across the pond, just because they have not attacked us since 9/11 or 7/7 doesn't mean they wont or cant. It will come if we let our guard down or relax for one moment, they will seize that opportunity. We cant and never shall we allow our selfs to become complacent. Never. I never said that Bid Laden and company would not attack us again. We must stay strong with capital punishment and will our military. This country cannot let its guard down, but with Obamalamawama in office, that may change.
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Post by HANGMAN1981 on Mar 25, 2009 16:29:11 GMT -6
Study history, not the predictions of activist groups. Predictions from activist groups are actually just fantasies!
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Post by HANGMAN1981 on Mar 25, 2009 16:30:54 GMT -6
But it still remains true that putting pressure on countries to abolish the dp is a certain way of gettind rid of it. Dude, when Euros tell us to abolish the DP, it makes us want to execute even more just to prove a point. Especially TX. As long as the SCOTUS says it is constitutional, capital punishment will exist in TX and like-minded states.. I hear ya, Agaveman! I love it when we pump the juice fast and make the Euros panic and AI bawl their eyes out!
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Post by ltdc on Mar 25, 2009 17:49:13 GMT -6
now wait a minute, I heard we faked info on WMD's so we could go steal their oil and avenge daddy Bush and it had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or Bin Laden?? where are you getting this fresh new perpective? Have you ever wondered why it is that they have caught just about anybody EXCEPT Bin Laden? Come on, whats so hard about finding a guy in a cave sure I've wondered. I personally believe the reason we can't find him in a cave is because the "cave" is now the bottom of a carpet bombed mountain. yeah, I know all the "tapes", but I think he's dead.
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Post by kingsindanger on Mar 25, 2009 22:06:19 GMT -6
When was the last time the US bowed to international "pressure" on any issue? Don't hold your breath. And you forget the DP is a state issue here. It's really got nothing to do with our federal government. Still, I suppose Mexico can always hope that one day Texas will listen to its pleas. That kind of talk sounds tough, but Bin laden single handedly turned the frigging US into a paranoid state and has affected every citixen, every visitor to the US in a variety of inconvenient ways Matt. And he's not even an International power or anything of that type of caliber, so what exactly is the point you make? If you are cockily saying the US never does anythinganyone else wants it to, I beg to differ. Its foolish to keep up that pretence. He made you start a war. Felix, How do I say this delicately? Bin Laden and the Iraqi war have absolutely no relationship to the DP being on the decline. Why even mention it? If you want to talk about Bin laden, do so in the archives. I guess what I am saying is, stay on topic. As to the dp on decline. I think it is. NJ and NM have already repealed. Additionally, many states are turning purely symbolic – having not carried out an execution in several years. I don’t think the dp will ever be found to violate the 8th given SCOTUS apparent endorsement in Baze Vs Rees. However, I do foresee executions and the number of death sentences handed down to decrease in the next few years. Hopefully, I am wrong….
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 26, 2009 3:34:54 GMT -6
I have serious doubts about him not being caught, I mean you've had just about everyone else and their aunt. Maybe I sound paranoid but I smell a rat and a done deal somewhere. What utter bullshyt, Felix. Yes, mistakes were made by the Bush administration, but we haven't forgotten. He's essentially like a DR inmate, it's just that his cell is a little bigger-it's the Hindu Kush, perhaps the most remote place in the world, and not a 7x10 cell. And he's just as certainly under sentence of death, just like a DR inmate-and if, as I said above, he shows a hair on his ass, the sentence will be carried out. What did you think we're going to do? Turn him over to the ICJ in The Hague? LMAO, naw, even I would avoid the Hague, but I remain sceptical and puzzled as to why this caveman whom everybody seems to be aware of his wherabouts, remains elusive and uncaptured whilst so many others have been caught. I cant help feeling he has some top cobver from somewhere.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 26, 2009 3:36:54 GMT -6
That kind of talk sounds tough, but Bin laden single handedly turned the frigging US into a paranoid state and has affected every citixen, every visitor to the US in a variety of inconvenient ways Matt. And he's not even an International power or anything of that type of caliber, so what exactly is the point you make? If you are cockily saying the US never does anythinganyone else wants it to, I beg to differ. Its foolish to keep up that pretence. He made you start a war. Felix, How do I say this delicately? Bin Laden and the Iraqi war have absolutely no relationship to the DP being on the decline. Why even mention it? If you want to talk about Bin laden, do so in the archives. I guess what I am saying is, stay on topic. As to the dp on decline. I think it is. NJ and NM have already repealed. Additionally, many states are turning purely symbolic – having not carried out an execution in several years. I don’t think the dp will ever be found to violate the 8th given SCOTUS apparent endorsement in Baze Vs Rees. However, I do foresee executions and the number of death sentences handed down to decrease in the next few years. Hopefully, I am wrong…. My response was wholly approriate to Mike's comment on america being immune from the opinions and feelings of anyone else in the world. I merely pointed out that Bin Ladens have shaped your current lifestyle and Huilary clinton has acknowledged a change of attitude is calle for.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 26, 2009 3:39:40 GMT -6
Glenn you comment on life meaning life and what the British Government promised us is indeed a load of bollocks, Rather like the Brown promise on a referendum on the Mastrict Treaty. Bob, i wrote this a few months ago on a thread about Bin Laden , the SAS had him in their sights and could have taken him out, your satellites confirmed the target and your int guys said No to taking the shot , that was dumb. I think the int world would rather have him alive, Why, i have no idea, it would make him a martyr thats all. This was from a very high up source in Hereford, from a guy ive know for years, over 20 years. He still cant believe they were refused the shot. Felix, this is just my opinion, even if Bin laden and his 19 idiots didn't carry out 9/11 etc we would have had to deal with him sooner or later. The Taliban in Afghanistan were told and asked by the US and the UK, (remember we lost over a hundred on 9/11) to give them up, Al Queda i mean and they didn't. So we invaded, killing two birds with one stone. I agree that it wont be won militarily but the Taliban and the terrorists will be held back until the Afghans can take the fight themselves. Not all the Taliban are lunatics that people think they are , ideologist scum, some are fighting with the Taliban for a number of reasons, not ideology, it is them that we , the collision should be talking too and including in talks, not the fundamentalists. America is paranoid i agree but we would be the same don't you think if they had flown a couple of planes into Canary Wharf or the House of Commons, infact since 7/7 (i hate that expression) we have introduced more draconian anti terrorist laws then the Yanks have. Its a sad reflection of our situation but thats the price we pay for our freedom and way of life. The last thing i will say is this, Hangman1981 and to all the others here and across the pond, just because they have not attacked us since 9/11 or 7/7 doesn't mean they wont or cant. It will come if we let our guard down or relax for one moment, they will seize that opportunity. We cant and never shall we allow our selfs to become complacent. Never. If the SAS had him in their sights and were stopped from taking the shot, it reinfoces my suspicions that soemthing unholy is operating here in terms of him having top cover from somewhere high.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 26, 2009 3:59:25 GMT -6
Have you ever wondered why it is that they have caught just about anybody EXCEPT Bin Laden? Come on, whats so hard about finding a guy in a cave sure I've wondered. I personally believe the reason we can't find him in a cave is because the "cave" is now the bottom of a carpet bombed mountain. yeah, I know all the "tapes", but I think he's dead. I heard a story the folowers were tyring to access a kidney dialysis machine last year also and they were sure he died from kidney failure as they failed to get it. All wishful thinking until there is proof.
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Post by Matt on Mar 26, 2009 18:59:46 GMT -6
America is paranoid i agree but we would be the same don't you think if they had flown a couple of planes into Canary Wharf or the House of Commons, infact since 7/7 (i hate that expression) we have introduced more draconian anti terrorist laws then the Yanks have. Its a sad reflection of our situation but thats the price we pay for our freedom and way of life. We may be paranoid, but the political pendulum swings widely. It took 9/11 to make us realize that our infrastructure security was a joke. It still is, in most respects. As for a comparison of civil liberties, most Americans can't comprehend (much less appreciate) the level of security that exists in Britain. I'm referring specifically to CCTV, which is ubiquitous in major cities and certainly present in many minor ones. We get mad about traffic cameras over here.
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Post by kingsindanger on Mar 26, 2009 19:23:34 GMT -6
Felix, How do I say this delicately? Bin Laden and the Iraqi war have absolutely no relationship to the DP being on the decline. Why even mention it? If you want to talk about Bin laden, do so in the archives. I guess what I am saying is, stay on topic. As to the dp on decline. I think it is. NJ and NM have already repealed. Additionally, many states are turning purely symbolic – having not carried out an execution in several years. I don’t think the dp will ever be found to violate the 8th given SCOTUS apparent endorsement in Baze Vs Rees. However, I do foresee executions and the number of death sentences handed down to decrease in the next few years. Hopefully, I am wrong…. My response was wholly approriate to Mike's comment on america being immune from the opinions and feelings of anyone else in the world. I merely pointed out that Bin Ladens have shaped your current lifestyle and Huilary clinton has acknowledged a change of attitude is calle for. Felix, Yes, I know. I read the thread. Understand that America has never bothered to ask the opinions of others when it comes to our sovereignty. That was the point that was being made as it relates to capital punishment in the U.S.. What Bin Laden did or didn’t do has no bearing on the dp in the U.S. I will be happy to discuss the psychological state of the post 9/11 U.S. in another thread. That is all I am saying.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 27, 2009 6:55:34 GMT -6
My response was wholly approriate to Mike's comment on america being immune from the opinions and feelings of anyone else in the world. I merely pointed out that Bin Ladens have shaped your current lifestyle and Huilary clinton has acknowledged a change of attitude is calle for. Felix, Yes, I know. I read the thread. Understand that America has never bothered to ask the opinions of others when it comes to our sovereignty. That was the point that was being made as it relates to capital punishment in the U.S.. What Bin Laden did or didn’t do has no bearing on the dp in the U.S. I will be happy to discuss the psychological state of the post 9/11 U.S. in another thread. That is all I am saying. I understand that most countries that practice the DP will inevitably view its use as an issue which is internal to that country. My own view however is that mankind is intrinsically linked in a way that surpasses any man made boundaries. Even more so in the present age as the global world as we know it shrinks. We can see it in the knock on effect of banking behaviour in one or two countries affecting the entire global economy. In my view what happens any human being in any corner of the world is the business of every human being. And it is so because of the way mankind is linked. How else can you explain American interventions in other countries? You intervene because your government knows full wee that what happens in any far flung corner of the world indeed can have effects for the US and any other country for that matter. To take the opposite view regarding the DP whilst prerdictable, nevertheless smacks of vested interest and an unwillingness to submit to scrutiny. Take guatanamo for example, deliberate attempts to set up secret establishments outside the protections of even US laws, and next we are now hearing what I and others have long suspected as likely to have happened regarding some of the practices and tortures going on behind closed doors.
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Post by lawrence on Mar 27, 2009 7:14:07 GMT -6
Matt, heres something i heard on a Panarama programme the other day, did you know the average BRIT is caught on CCTV an average of 387 times a day, i have no idea how they worked it out but i can believe it. Like i said we are more draconian then you guys. We live and learn....... i hope.
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Post by lawrence on Mar 27, 2009 7:17:04 GMT -6
That conversation happened Felix, trust me, this friend thinks the same, something isnt right but im not going to get into some conspiricy theory. The high and mighty have their reasons im sure, i just hope they know what the F*** they are doing. So far, they have not instilled a great deal of confidence.
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Post by Felix2 on Mar 27, 2009 7:52:22 GMT -6
That conversation happened Felix, trust me, this friend thinks the same, something isnt right but im not going to get into some conspiricy theory. The high and mighty have their reasons im sure, i just hope they know what the F*** they are doing. So far, they have not instilled a great deal of confidence. I agree with you fully. Apparently Bin laden's family are quite wealthy and reportedly even had business links with Bush prior to 9/11. Makes you ownder when you put it all together.
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Post by furoraceltica on Apr 7, 2009 12:54:31 GMT -6
But it still remains true that putting pressure on countries to abolish the dp is a certain way of gettind rid of it. Dude, when Euros tell us to abolish the DP, it makes us want to execute even more just to prove a point. Especially TX. As long as the SCOTUS says it is constitutional, capital punishment will exist in TX and like-minded states.. May interest you to learn that the European Union is funding special interest groups inside the US to try and get the DP abolished.
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Post by Elric of Melnibone on Apr 7, 2009 13:22:13 GMT -6
When the crooks stop using the death penalty, I will say for Texas to stop. But till then, we will just muddle through and execute the killers of our citizens.
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Post by belsogno on Apr 7, 2009 13:33:03 GMT -6
Dude, when Euros tell us to abolish the DP, it makes us want to execute even more just to prove a point. Especially TX. As long as the SCOTUS says it is constitutional, capital punishment will exist in TX and like-minded states.. May interest you to learn that the European Union is funding special interest groups inside the US to try and get the DP abolished. Have you got any sure source or it's just your opinion? I don't trust that
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Post by Matt on Apr 7, 2009 16:48:49 GMT -6
Matt, heres something i heard on a Panarama programme the other day, did you know the average BRIT is caught on CCTV an average of 387 times a day, i have no idea how they worked it out but i can believe it. Like i said we are more draconian then you guys. We live and learn....... i hope. And CCTV has helped British authorities solve countless crimes. The fact that 99.9% of the time Brits are captured doing nothing more criminal than hunting for navel lint ought to be of some comfort.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 7, 2009 17:41:36 GMT -6
Dude, when Euros tell us to abolish the DP, it makes us want to execute even more just to prove a point. Especially TX. As long as the SCOTUS says it is constitutional, capital punishment will exist in TX and like-minded states.. May interest you to learn that the European Union is funding special interest groups inside the US to try and get the DP abolished. Can't say this I would put it past them because we all know that they believe solely in "prisoner rights" and not that these POS maimed and mutilated their victims.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 8, 2009 5:45:34 GMT -6
I dont believe in prisoners rights, but then im one of those Brits who's being dragged kicking and screaming into Europe
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 8:47:35 GMT -6
Felix, How do I say this delicately? Bin Laden and the Iraqi war have absolutely no relationship to the DP being on the decline. Why even mention it? If you want to talk about Bin laden, do so in the archives. I guess what I am saying is, stay on topic. As to the dp on decline. I think it is. NJ and NM have already repealed. Additionally, many states are turning purely symbolic – having not carried out an execution in several years. I don’t think the dp will ever be found to violate the 8th given SCOTUS apparent endorsement in Baze Vs Rees. However, I do foresee executions and the number of death sentences handed down to decrease in the next few years. Hopefully, I am wrong…. My response was wholly approriate to Mike's comment on america being immune from the opinions and feelings of anyone else in the world. I merely pointed out that Bin Ladens have shaped your current lifestyle and Huilary clinton has acknowledged a change of attitude is calle for. Felix, climb into a vacuum and STAY ON TOPIC. That's the new law of the forum.... and so, you ~ with your asides ~ are dead meat ;D Oh, and don't address him when he didn't address you. I *think* for now, that's all the new rules there are....
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Post by Felix2 on Apr 8, 2009 8:55:34 GMT -6
My response was wholly approriate to Mike's comment on america being immune from the opinions and feelings of anyone else in the world. I merely pointed out that Bin Ladens have shaped your current lifestyle and Huilary clinton has acknowledged a change of attitude is calle for. Felix, climb into a vacuum and STAY ON TOPIC. That's the new law of the forum.... and so, you ~ with your asides ~ are dead meat ;D Oh, and don't address him when he didn't address you. I *think* for now, that's all the new rules there are.... LMAO He's almost as entertaing as Philips!
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on Apr 8, 2009 14:03:55 GMT -6
As long as Texas doesn't repeal, we should be safe.
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