|
Post by rayozz on Jan 4, 2007 1:06:41 GMT -6
There was some doubt what was happening. I just leave myself and yours to ponder why?
The Iraqi government has not set a date for the execution of Saddam Hussein's two co-defendants, including his half brother, an aide to Prime Minister Nuri al-Malik. Barzan al-Tikriti, Saddam's half brother and former intelligence chief, and Awad al-Bander, a former chief judge, were found guilty along with Saddam of crimes against humanity in the killings of 148 Shi'ite men from Dujail in the 1980s.
Saddam was hanged on Saturday.
Ray
|
|
|
Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 4, 2007 8:11:34 GMT -6
I read on an arab website that the date (per an Iraqi government source) was Thursday. They are yet again in talks w/the US on timing, transfer, etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2007 15:18:45 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by GlennF on Jan 8, 2007 15:52:24 GMT -6
Well unlike his victims, he can't have felt a thing!!
|
|
|
Post by 4GodnCountry on Jan 8, 2007 19:12:34 GMT -6
I guess their equations were alittle off.... looks as if his head had ideas of seperating from his body. OOPS. Laura DROP DISTANCE TABLE Pounds Distance 120 or less....8' 1" 170................6' 0" 125................7'10" 175................5'11" 130................7' 7" 180................5' 9" 135................7' 4" 185................5' 7" 140................7' 1" 190................5' 6" 145................6' 9" 195................5' 5" 150................6' 7" 200................5' 4" 155................6' 6" 205................5' 2" 160................6' 4" 210................5' 1" 165................6' 2" 220 and over.......5' 0" users.bestweb.net/~rg/execution/Protocol%20Hanging.htm
|
|
|
Post by 4GodnCountry on Jan 8, 2007 19:14:15 GMT -6
Can we try again? Laura
|
|
|
Post by Breka on Jan 15, 2007 4:43:53 GMT -6
Executed this early morning in Iraq
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 15, 2007 5:31:38 GMT -6
Executed this early morning in Iraq To achieve what exactly? Yes, all three were heinous psychopaths who murdered at will and oppressed an entire nation, but what does execution provide that a lifetime in prison cannot? I am also cynical about the way they werer only tried for the killing of the 148 from the town associated with the adttempt on Saddams life, the cynical side of me wonders who gains? The US could gain by such previous atrocities not being focussed on because them it avoids unwelcome attention on just whom he was getting support from at that time. To call his trial and execution justice rings hollow with me.
|
|
|
Post by rosebud on Jan 15, 2007 5:54:33 GMT -6
Executed this early morning in Iraq To achieve what exactly? Yes, all three were heinous psychopaths who murdered at will and oppressed an entire nation, but what does execution provide that a lifetime in prison cannot? I am also cynical about the way they werer only tried for the killing of the 148 from the town associated with the adttempt on Saddams life, the cynical side of me wonders who gains? The US could gain by such previous atrocities not being focussed on because them it avoids unwelcome attention on just whom he was getting support from at that time. To call his trial and execution justice rings hollow with me. I am looking for one good reason why the POS should have been given LIfe imprisonment. I can't think of one. Why should he and his henchmen live while there are children growing up without fathers in Iraq, because they refused to live by saddams rules. Shouldn't the people Saddam killed have been allowed to live.
|
|
|
Post by RickZ on Jan 15, 2007 6:30:40 GMT -6
Executed this early morning in Iraq To achieve what exactly? Yes, all three were heinous psychopaths who murdered at will and oppressed an entire nation, but what does execution provide that a lifetime in prison cannot? 1) No possibility of a future hostage exchange for prisoner release. The Palis do this all the time. 2) No chance of their ever getting back into power and doing the revenge thing. Ask the Iraqis. Their charges, their trial, their conviction, their sentence. Naw. That's just your head ringing hollow.
|
|
|
Post by RickZ on Jan 15, 2007 7:05:34 GMT -6
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/15/AR2007011500245.htmlAnger, suspicion at Saddam aide gallows beheading By Ghazwan al-Jibouri Reuters [With a headline like that, who else could it be but al-Reuters?]Monday, January 15, 2007; 5:48 AM TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi Shi'ites, oppressed by Saddam Hussein, welcomed the hanging of two of his aides on Monday though some also joined Sunni Arabs in expressing shock that his half-brother's head was ripped off by the noose. Saddam's two co-defendants were hanged before dawn on Monday, the Iraqi government said, but they admitted that the head of his half-brother Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti was also torn from his body by the force of the rope during the execution. . . . ----- Why the angst about a beheading, even if by rope, in islamia? And was this worse than being fed alive, feet first, into a shredder?
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 15, 2007 15:01:56 GMT -6
To achieve what exactly? Yes, all three were heinous psychopaths who murdered at will and oppressed an entire nation, but what does execution provide that a lifetime in prison cannot? I am also cynical about the way they werer only tried for the killing of the 148 from the town associated with the adttempt on Saddams life, the cynical side of me wonders who gains? The US could gain by such previous atrocities not being focussed on because them it avoids unwelcome attention on just whom he was getting support from at that time. To call his trial and execution justice rings hollow with me. I am looking for one good reason why the POS should have been given LIfe imprisonment. I can't think of one. Why should he and his henchmen live while there are children growing up without fathers in Iraq, because they refused to live by saddams rules. Shouldn't the people Saddam killed have been allowed to live. Of course Saddams victims should have lived, why do you mention this as though I imply they should'nt merely because I dont approve his death? I assumed you'd know I respect the right they had to life as with all murder victims, its just the perps that I assume you dont already know my viewpoint on.
|
|
|
Post by rosebud on Jan 15, 2007 23:44:15 GMT -6
I am looking for one good reason why the POS should have been given LIfe imprisonment. I can't think of one. Why should he and his henchmen live while there are children growing up without fathers in Iraq, because they refused to live by saddams rules. Shouldn't the people Saddam killed have been allowed to live. Of course Saddams victims should have lived, why do you mention this as though I imply they should'nt merely because I dont approve his death? I assumed you'd know I respect the right they had to life as with all murder victims, its just the perps that I assume you dont already know my viewpoint on. It's your viewpoint on keeping them alive, for what reason?...... Why should they be kept alive.I wonder if it crossed any of their minds when they were on a killing spree, that these people they were killing should be allowed to live. TReating the perp and the innocent the same in crazy!
|
|
|
Post by johnnyrep on Jan 16, 2007 2:27:42 GMT -6
If America hadn't invaded Iraq on the back of their lies none of you would give two flying figs about the execution of anyone in Iraq.
|
|
|
Post by GlennF on Jan 16, 2007 11:40:07 GMT -6
TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi Shi'ites, oppressed by Saddam Hussein, welcomed the hanging of two of his aides on Monday though some also joined Sunni Arabs in expressing shock that his half-brother's head was ripped off by the noose. There is only one thing to prevent that happening again; a little more practice!!
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 16, 2007 17:18:30 GMT -6
Of course Saddams victims should have lived, why do you mention this as though I imply they should'nt merely because I dont approve his death? I assumed you'd know I respect the right they had to life as with all murder victims, its just the perps that I assume you dont already know my viewpoint on. It's your viewpoint on keeping them alive, for what reason?...... Why should they be kept alive.I wonder if it crossed any of their minds when they were on a killing spree, that these people they were killing should be allowed to live. TReating the perp and the innocent the same in crazy! How does that amount to treating them the same, I'd never give a victim LWOP
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2007 17:39:12 GMT -6
It's your viewpoint on keeping them alive, for what reason?...... Why should they be kept alive.I wonder if it crossed any of their minds when they were on a killing spree, that these people they were killing should be allowed to live. TReating the perp and the innocent the same in crazy! How does that amount to treating them the same, I'd never give a victim LWOP Maybe you would not give the victim LWOP, but you would give the rest of us him sitting with his life, so much more than he gave his victims. Anyone who murders has to be considered a non human that stopped being human as soon as he made a choice that what he wanted was worth more than another persons life. Your problem is that you still see him as a viable person that can bring some contribution to the human race, and he can't, no matter how much you would like to think so. And how do I know this, it's because you would never let him live with you and your family.
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 16, 2007 17:48:32 GMT -6
How does that amount to treating them the same, I'd never give a victim LWOP Maybe you would not give the victim LWOP, but you would give the rest of us him sitting with his life, so much more than he gave his victims. Anyone who murders has to be considered a non human that stopped being human as soon as he made a choice that what he wanted was worth more than another persons life. Your problem is that you still see him as a viable person that can bring some contribution to the human race, and he can't, no matter how much you would like to think so. And how do I know this, it's because you would never let him live with you and your family. That arguement does not hold. Your view is the one without hope in humanity, your view is so hopeless you cant see a killer as human despite his actions not being so. I have seen rehabilitation work, its a fundamental aspect to humankind thatwe can change around our behaviour. You're simply a pessimist or cant acknowledge that fact because you know it would make your stance on the DP harder to justify and your desire for some revenge prevents that.
|
|
|
Post by Breka on Jan 17, 2007 3:22:44 GMT -6
I guess their equations were alittle off.... looks as if his head had ideas of seperating from his body. OOPS. Laura DROP DISTANCE TABLE Pounds Distance 120 or less....8' 1" 170................6' 0" 125................7'10" 175................5'11" 130................7' 7" 180................5' 9" 135................7' 4" 185................5' 7" 140................7' 1" 190................5' 6" 145................6' 9" 195................5' 5" 150................6' 7" 200................5' 4" 155................6' 6" 205................5' 2" 160................6' 4" 210................5' 1" 165................6' 2" 220 and over.......5' 0" users.bestweb.net/~rg/execution/Protocol%20Hanging.htmA bit of reading and a bit of math could have let at least Barsan al-Tikriti head on his shoulders Obviously those hangmen wanted really making sure that "justice is done " could could'nt they read ??
|
|
|
Post by rosebud on Jan 17, 2007 5:09:43 GMT -6
Maybe you would not give the victim LWOP, but you would give the rest of us him sitting with his life, so much more than he gave his victims. Anyone who murders has to be considered a non human that stopped being human as soon as he made a choice that what he wanted was worth more than another persons life. Your problem is that you still see him as a viable person that can bring some contribution to the human race, and he can't, no matter how much you would like to think so. And how do I know this, it's because you would never let him live with you and your family. That arguement does not hold. Your view is the one without hope in humanity, your view is so hopeless you cant see a killer as human despite his actions not being so. I have seen rehabilitation work, its a fundamental aspect to humankind thatwe can change around our behaviour. You're simply a pessimist or cant acknowledge that fact because you know it would make your stance on the DP harder to justify and your desire for some revenge prevents that. You really think you could have rehabilitated Saddam Hussain?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 12:49:20 GMT -6
Maybe you would not give the victim LWOP, but you would give the rest of us him sitting with his life, so much more than he gave his victims. Anyone who murders has to be considered a non human that stopped being human as soon as he made a choice that what he wanted was worth more than another persons life. Your problem is that you still see him as a viable person that can bring some contribution to the human race, and he can't, no matter how much you would like to think so. And how do I know this, it's because you would never let him live with you and your family. That arguement does not hold. Your view is the one without hope in humanity, your view is so hopeless you cant see a killer as human despite his actions not being so. I have seen rehabilitation work, its a fundamental aspect to humankind thatwe can change around our behaviour. You're simply a pessimist or cant acknowledge that fact because you know it would make your stance on the DP harder to justify and your desire for some revenge prevents that. Right back at you. The fact that LWOP has no rehabilitation to it slips your mind, and the punishment has to fit the crime, hence the victim has no chance to rehabilitate their lives, so the murderer has lost all human rights after taking a life. And don't forget that 8% of the murderers on DR had convictions for a prior murder, it's people with your save the murderer and give them a second chance attitude that contributes to the death of the innocents in this country. What about their rights over someone that has clearly showen that they lack what it takes to be human?
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 17, 2007 14:54:55 GMT -6
That arguement does not hold. Your view is the one without hope in humanity, your view is so hopeless you cant see a killer as human despite his actions not being so. I have seen rehabilitation work, its a fundamental aspect to humankind thatwe can change around our behaviour. You're simply a pessimist or cant acknowledge that fact because you know it would make your stance on the DP harder to justify and your desire for some revenge prevents that. Right back at you. The fact that LWOP has no rehabilitation to it slips your mind, and the punishment has to fit the crime, hence the victim has no chance to rehabilitate their lives, so the murderer has lost all human rights after taking a life. And don't forget that 8% of the murderers on DR had convictions for a prior murder, it's people with your save the murderer and give them a second chance attitude that contributes to the death of the innocents in this country. What about their rights over someone that has clearly showen that they lack what it takes to be human? I am not saying give him a second chance, I would'nt. LWOP does not provide an opportunity to do it again, you do know what LWOP means dont you? He can rehab insofar as he can in prison and make the best of that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 15:44:36 GMT -6
Right back at you. The fact that LWOP has no rehabilitation to it slips your mind, and the punishment has to fit the crime, hence the victim has no chance to rehabilitate their lives, so the murderer has lost all human rights after taking a life. And don't forget that 8% of the murderers on DR had convictions for a prior murder, it's people with your save the murderer and give them a second chance attitude that contributes to the death of the innocents in this country. What about their rights over someone that has clearly showen that they lack what it takes to be human? I am not saying give him a second chance, I would'nt. LWOP does not provide an opportunity to do it again, you do know what LWOP means dont you? He can rehab insofar as he can in prison and make the best of that. And if he just decides not to rehab while doing LWOP then he has nothing to loose by killing in prison. You need to make up your mind about your do good stance and make sure no one else gets hurt by it. It is so easy to sit here and type your opinions and not look at the results of LWOP. And by the way I could care less how much a person on DR or LWOP can be rehabed because they are no longer a member of society let alone a productive member. The good in all people stance only goes so far because some people are just evil and others would kill you just for wearing the wrong shoes, and of course they say they are sorry after they recieve there sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 17, 2007 16:35:54 GMT -6
I am not saying give him a second chance, I would'nt. LWOP does not provide an opportunity to do it again, you do know what LWOP means dont you? He can rehab insofar as he can in prison and make the best of that. And if he just decides not to rehab while doing LWOP then he has nothing to loose by killing in prison. You need to make up your mind about your do good stance and make sure no one else gets hurt by it. It is so easy to sit here and type your opinions and not look at the results of LWOP. And by the way I could care less how much a person on DR or LWOP can be rehabed because they are no longer a member of society let alone a productive member. The good in all people stance only goes so far because some people are just evil and others would kill you just for wearing the wrong shoes, and of course they say they are sorry after they recieve there sentence. Ni Ivan, if he does'nt rehab in prison we loose nothing, he's still lost his freedom!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2007 18:35:54 GMT -6
And if he just decides not to rehab while doing LWOP then he has nothing to loose by killing in prison. You need to make up your mind about your do good stance and make sure no one else gets hurt by it. It is so easy to sit here and type your opinions and not look at the results of LWOP. And by the way I could care less how much a person on DR or LWOP can be rehabed because they are no longer a member of society let alone a productive member. The good in all people stance only goes so far because some people are just evil and others would kill you just for wearing the wrong shoes, and of course they say they are sorry after they recieve there sentence. Ni Ivan, if he does'nt rehab in prison we loose nothing, he's still lost his freedom! You just ignore the rest of the picture. You can't find an answer, so you just pick out what suits your posistion? I find that it's scarry to leave my safety in peoples hands that care more about the walfare of the POS than the victims , past and present and future of a POS. Due to the limited value of trying to rehabilitating a murderer, not to mention the risk to other people if we are lead to believe he seems to be no longer a danger. My point is why would you argue for a murderers right to live. When you could be fighting for a possible future victim of the same murderer. How many people need to die before it starts to bother you?
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 18, 2007 3:13:16 GMT -6
Ni Ivan, if he does'nt rehab in prison we loose nothing, he's still lost his freedom! You just ignore the rest of the picture. You can't find an answer, so you just pick out what suits your posistion? I find that it's scarry to leave my safety in peoples hands that care more about the walfare of the POS than the victims , past and present and future of a POS. Due to the limited value of trying to rehabilitating a murderer, not to mention the risk to other people if we are lead to believe he seems to be no longer a danger. My point is why would you argue for a murderers right to live. When you could be fighting for a possible future victim of the same murderer. How many people need to die before it starts to bother you? Firstly the murderers welfare is not left in the hands of people that care more about him than they do his victims, its in the hands of prison staff. Frankly, they dont fit that profile you trot out, those that might care for him more than his victims only get to visit him. Rehabilitation is never a limited value in my opinion, but its nice to note that apparent acknowledgement from you that it is possible. Thirdly, I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 11:51:34 GMT -6
You just ignore the rest of the picture. You can't find an answer, so you just pick out what suits your posistion? I find that it's scarry to leave my safety in peoples hands that care more about the walfare of the POS than the victims , past and present and future of a POS. Due to the limited value of trying to rehabilitating a murderer, not to mention the risk to other people if we are lead to believe he seems to be no longer a danger. My point is why would you argue for a murderers right to live. When you could be fighting for a possible future victim of the same murderer. How many people need to die before it starts to bother you? Firstly the murderers welfare is not left in the hands of people that care more about him than they do his victims, its in the hands of prison staff. Frankly, they dont fit that profile you trot out, those that might care for him more than his victims only get to visit him. Rehabilitation is never a limited value in my opinion, but its nice to note that apparent acknowledgement from you that it is possible. Thirdly, I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own. You don't think that people that support a POS by arguing that their life is precious is not careing? Think again. Immediate self defence? You just cheapened the life of the victim, victims, future victims and and anyone else that gets murdered by an animal due to some murderer getting out for some reason and killing again. You just put a murderers life over an inocent person that may not hold your views. You play judge, jury and executioner for future victims. And stop saying that your not arguing for the rights of a murderer, because your are. Every time you spout about all life is precious you cheapen the victims life, and just as sad, you put the life of a murderer on the same level as mine, my family and anyone else that may be a POS next victim. I will always respect life, thats why I support the death penalty, I just see the differance between a person that has or will become a victim and a murderer that made the choice that their wants were more important than someones life. If you had a choice of going back in time and killing Hitler before he came to power or not going back at all. And these were your only choices, would you still think all life is presious. Would what you wrote still apply? ("I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own")
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 14:01:58 GMT -6
You just ignore the rest of the picture. You can't find an answer, so you just pick out what suits your posistion? I find that it's scarry to leave my safety in peoples hands that care more about the walfare of the POS than the victims , past and present and future of a POS. Due to the limited value of trying to rehabilitating a murderer, not to mention the risk to other people if we are lead to believe he seems to be no longer a danger. My point is why would you argue for a murderers right to live. When you could be fighting for a possible future victim of the same murderer. How many people need to die before it starts to bother you? Firstly the murderers welfare is not left in the hands of people that care more about him than they do his victims, its in the hands of prison staff. Frankly, they dont fit that profile you trot out, those that might care for him more than his victims only get to visit him. Rehabilitation is never a limited value in my opinion, but its nice to note that apparent acknowledgement from you that it is possible. Thirdly, I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own. You have 11,000 post on this board and you still see the murderer as someone who deserves rehabilitation instead of just pure punishment for their crime. The pain and suffering that is caused by those who argue that a murderer life is of the same value as a victims is a narrow minded approch to the DP.
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 19, 2007 3:26:31 GMT -6
Firstly the murderers welfare is not left in the hands of people that care more about him than they do his victims, its in the hands of prison staff. Frankly, they dont fit that profile you trot out, those that might care for him more than his victims only get to visit him. Rehabilitation is never a limited value in my opinion, but its nice to note that apparent acknowledgement from you that it is possible. Thirdly, I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own. You have 11,000 post on this board and you still see the murderer as someone who deserves rehabilitation instead of just pure punishment for their crime. The pain and suffering that is caused by those who argue that a murderer life is of the same value as a victims is a narrow minded approch to the DP.Its not so much that they deseerve rehabilitation as much as our response to them says rather a lot about how like them we are ourselves.
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Jan 19, 2007 3:28:29 GMT -6
Firstly the murderers welfare is not left in the hands of people that care more about him than they do his victims, its in the hands of prison staff. Frankly, they dont fit that profile you trot out, those that might care for him more than his victims only get to visit him. Rehabilitation is never a limited value in my opinion, but its nice to note that apparent acknowledgement from you that it is possible. Thirdly, I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own. You don't think that people that support a POS by arguing that their life is precious is not careing? Think again. Immediate self defence? You just cheapened the life of the victim, victims, future victims and and anyone else that gets murdered by an animal due to some murderer getting out for some reason and killing again. You just put a murderers life over an inocent person that may not hold your views. You play judge, jury and executioner for future victims. And stop saying that your not arguing for the rights of a murderer, because your are. Every time you spout about all life is precious you cheapen the victims life, and just as sad, you put the life of a murderer on the same level as mine, my family and anyone else that may be a POS next victim. I will always respect life, thats why I support the death penalty, I just see the differance between a person that has or will become a victim and a murderer that made the choice that their wants were more important than someones life. If you had a choice of going back in time and killing Hitler before he came to power or not going back at all. And these were your only choices, would you still think all life is presious. Would what you wrote still apply? ("I am not argueing so much for the killers right to live, as I am argueing that we do not have the right to take life except in circumstances of direct and immediate self defence. Any other position in my view cheapens human life including our own") We may have tio agree to disagree then. You are of the opinion that violence and killing people is a proper way to teach people that violence and killing people is wrong, I just think it is not logical.
|
|