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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 13, 2013 16:03:02 GMT -6
Under LI, American DP supporters believed they were agreeing to a system of execution that would nullify any C&U argument and dramatically reduce the number of capital case appeals. Boy did they ever get that one wrong. Yup, as the Duck Dynasty guys would say. What seems cruel and unusual, to me, is to execute someone for no particular reason, and without any strong feeling or motivation. Repeal the Eighth and get back to the way things were. Capital punishment is the right thing to do, and about it we should not be ashamed.
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Post by oslooskar on Jun 13, 2013 18:57:46 GMT -6
Then the Eighth Amendment should be repealed Yeah right!
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sanquentin
Freshman
Pro dp, but only for murder and for rape(either seperately or together), and never mandatory.
Posts: 27
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Post by sanquentin on Jun 14, 2013 7:52:54 GMT -6
Agreed. The 8th is so vague, and (thus, perhaps) it slows so many appeals down and therein is the DP expense people like to complain about.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 14, 2013 8:26:36 GMT -6
It can be done, if Americans really want the death penalty to work. It doesn't mean we'll start beheading murderers, but it takes the courts out of the process, which is what everyone wants.
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Post by ltdc on Jun 14, 2013 9:06:19 GMT -6
"My right to own a gun is more important then other people's right to live" and of course "your" right to drive a car is more important than other people's right to live. actually I agree with both.
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Post by oslooskar on Jun 14, 2013 23:42:20 GMT -6
Agreed. The 8th is so vague, and (thus, perhaps) it slows so many appeals down and therein is the DP expense people like to complain about. What's vague about it?
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Post by oslooskar on Jun 14, 2013 23:48:40 GMT -6
but it takes the courts out of the process, which is what everyone wants. You mean it’s what everyone in a lynch mob wants.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 17, 2013 13:52:16 GMT -6
How is a repeal of the Eighth Amendment mob justice? It just means the death penalty is treated the same in the appellate courts as any other punishment.
The argument about the "cruelty" of an executioni is frivolous. If it's OK to punish someone with death, then the manner of execution is irrelevant.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 17, 2013 13:54:06 GMT -6
Agreed. The 8th is so vague, and (thus, perhaps) it slows so many appeals down and therein is the DP expense people like to complain about. What's vague about it? The word "cruel" is hopelessly subjective. All punishments are cruel to the punished.
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Post by moretoasts on Jun 17, 2013 14:27:24 GMT -6
The word "cruel" is hopelessly subjective. All punishments are cruel to the punished. I have to agree with Joseph here. I am against DP, but I find 8th Am. to be very hypocritical in the DP matter. It's really stunning to see courts that argue over and over if the inmate feel a little pain with the injection, while you are killing him. They are ok with killing a man and aren't ok to inflict a bit of pain? Nonsense. I think it's only the bill that the People pays to its conscience. Joseph I have a question for you. Without 8th Amendment what could stop a court, for example, to convict somebody to be whipped in pubblic? Just curiosity
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 17, 2013 14:34:40 GMT -6
The legislative branch could ban knouting, whipping, etc.
Or not, if the people so desire.
If you repeal the Eighth Amendment, the alleged "proponents" of capital punishment will be forced to reckon with the rectitude of the death penalty, in and of itself, apart from how it's carried out.
Let's say executions are cruel, then. So what? Murderers have it coming.
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Post by oslooskar on Jun 19, 2013 1:17:07 GMT -6
If it's OK to punish someone with death, then the manner of execution is irrelevant. On the contrary, the Eighth Amendment makes the manner of execution very relevant. Let's say executions are cruel, then. So what? Then they are in violation of the Eighth Amendment and thus unconstitutional. Murderers have it coming. That may very well be true from an “Eye for an eye” perspective of justice but it’s also totally irrelevant. The word "cruel" is hopelessly subjective. All punishments are cruel to the punished. This is why the courts refer to the “Evolving Standards of Decency” test. The legislative branch could ban knouting, whipping, etc. Or not, if the people so desire. There’s your mob rule.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 20, 2013 9:10:44 GMT -6
On the contrary, the Eighth Amendment makes the manner of execution very relevant. All the more reason to repeal it. Then they are in violation of the Eighth Amendment and thus unconstitutional. Again, all the more reason to repeal it. That may very well be true from an “Eye for an eye” perspective of justice but it’s also totally irrelevant. All punishment comprises retribution. To punish a murderer because he has it coming is the whole point. This is why the courts refer to the “Evolving Standards of Decency” test. Another reason to repeal the Eighth -- an evolving standard of decency. No, there's your democracy.
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Post by oslooskar on Jun 21, 2013 15:38:54 GMT -6
All the more reason to repeal it. That’s not a reason to repeal the Eighth Amendment. Again, all the more reason to repeal it. Again, all the more reason not to repeal it. Another reason to repeal the Eighth -- an evolving standard of decency. Phillips, seriously, you’re just prattling on. At least present some evidence, if you have any, to support your argument. All punishment comprises retribution. To punish a murderer because he has it coming is the whole point. The intent of an execution is to extinguish life from the condemned; not to inflict unnecessary pain and suffering. No, there's your democracy. Democracy is mob rule.
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