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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 24, 2013 2:46:24 GMT -6
I don't know how many here will be familiar with the Russian writer, Leo Tolstoy but I found this interesting little piece about his writing after he witnessed execution by guillotine in Paris in 1857:
"When I saw the head part from the body, and each of them fall separately into a box with a thud, I understood - not in my mind, but with my whole being - that no rational doctrine of progress could justify that act, and that if every man now living in the world, and every man who had lived since the beginning of time, were to maintain, in the name of some theory or other, that this execution was indispensable, I should still know it was not indispensable: that it was wrong."
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Post by Matt on Apr 24, 2013 8:45:14 GMT -6
Tolstoy's analysis here was inextricably intertwined with his involvement in political class struggle and belief in the essentially oppressive nature of the State. Many European liberal intellectuals of the time were persecuted, imprisoned, or worse. These were heady days, post French 1848 Revolution. Tolstoy wasn't viewing these executions through the lens of law and order; he was looking at the State killing those who disagreed with it.
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Post by honeyroastedpeanut on Apr 24, 2013 12:12:06 GMT -6
Tolstoy's analysis here was inextricably intertwined with his involvement in political class struggle and belief in the essentially oppressive nature of the State. Many European liberal intellectuals of the time were persecuted, imprisoned, or worse. These were heady days, post French 1848 Revolution. Tolstoy wasn't viewing these executions through the lens of law and order; he was looking at the State killing those who disagreed with it. A little anecdote can support your view. In 1849 Fyodor Dostoyevsky was put in front of a firing squad for political reasons and got commuted in the very last minute.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2013 13:39:59 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 24, 2013 15:11:12 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. I can understand a loved one wanting to.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 20:58:00 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. The survivors of the victims were there to see that the state carried out the justice it promised The prosecutors were there to see the job through The reporters were there to be witnesses for the public I don't know about the other people that were there. They didn't tell me their reasons.
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Post by ltdc on Apr 26, 2013 10:04:06 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. because I think you'd lose interest watching life in prison.
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Post by Matt on Apr 26, 2013 10:56:06 GMT -6
I'd witness them all day long if we would just get on with it.
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Post by Kay on Apr 27, 2013 11:32:40 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. I didn't witness the actual execution, but I did choose to go to Huntsville to support loved ones whose daughter was murdered. Strangely, enough, although I'm opposed to capital punishment, the antis were terribly hateful. They screamed murderers at those who passed. It still upsets me today, thinking about it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 12:09:56 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. I didn't witness the actual execution, but I did choose to go to Huntsville to support loved ones whose daughter was murdered. Strangely, enough, although I'm opposed to capital punishment, the antis were terribly hateful. They screamed murderers at those who passed. It still upsets me today, thinking about it. the protesters were wrong in calling people murderers; that is shameful and hateful
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 13:29:01 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. I didn't witness the actual execution, but I did choose to go to Huntsville to support loved ones whose daughter was murdered. Strangely, enough, although I'm opposed to capital punishment, the antis were terribly hateful. They screamed murderers at those who passed. It still upsets me today, thinking about it. There was not much to see really; he just went to sleep, even snored a bit And I'm still so glad you and Char and Lisa were there. But I'm sorry they upset you. I think the most nerve-wracking part for me was walking across that street afterwards to speak to the press XOXOXOXOXO dear friend
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 16:49:39 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to?
I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read?
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Post by Californian on Apr 27, 2013 16:49:47 GMT -6
I can't imagine why anyone would want to witness an execution in the first place. because I think you'd lose interest watching life in prison. Oh, I dunno, what if you could laugh and point at the funny-looking animals? And throw peanuts?
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Post by Californian on Apr 27, 2013 16:58:57 GMT -6
I didn't witness the actual execution, but I did choose to go to Huntsville to support loved ones whose daughter was murdered. Strangely, enough, although I'm opposed to capital punishment, the antis were terribly hateful. They screamed murderers at those who passed. It still upsets me today, thinking about it. There was not much to see really; he just went to sleep, even snored a bit And I'm still so glad you and Char and Lisa were there. But I'm sorry they upset you. I think the most nerve-wracking part for me was walking across that street afterwards to speak to the press XOXOXOXOXO dear friend Is it too much to hope for that you at least flipped them the bird? I wouldn't do well at these sort of people there. They need an ass-whuppin',and wouldn't it be fun to hand some out? I'll bet LTDC would help, too. He has a genuinely bad attitude. I admire that in a man.
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Post by Californian on Apr 27, 2013 17:02:13 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to? I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read? Because any fool can edit Wikipedia, and our mainstream news media is infected with communists, who are never happy unless they're the ones doing the killing.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 28, 2013 2:14:02 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to? I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read? Like Cali said, Wiki can be edited by anyone. Sometimes in a Pros favour too Woods' execution I remember particularly well because I/we saw the hatred and bile spewing out from the usual retarded forums (who ironically are probably more Pro than a lot of Pros.) There are sensible Antis like Kay here, but while I was lighting a candle for Janet and family over here on this side of the pond, the 'Pro Death Writer's Club' were busy wallowing in hate (and attempting to peddle it online.) It annoys me but doesn't anger me when I consider the source. Good day
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Post by Kay on Apr 28, 2013 6:02:05 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to? I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read? Can you employ a little empathy for a moment and really think about your question? Lies are the only thing remaining with which to defend the murderer.
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Post by Kay on Apr 28, 2013 6:24:38 GMT -6
I didn't witness the actual execution, but I did choose to go to Huntsville to support loved ones whose daughter was murdered. Strangely, enough, although I'm opposed to capital punishment, the antis were terribly hateful. They screamed murderers at those who passed. It still upsets me today, thinking about it. There was not much to see really; he just went to sleep, even snored a bit And I'm still so glad you and Char and Lisa were there. But I'm sorry they upset you. I think the most nerve-wracking part for me was walking across that street afterwards to speak to the press XOXOXOXOXO dear friend No apologies necessary I just find it ironic that pros are labelled blood thirsty and ghoulish, yet all of the pros in attendance that day were solemn, quiet and dignified, remember Bethena and the real reason for the execution.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 9:07:34 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to? I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read? Can you employ a little empathy for a moment and really think about your question? Lies are the only thing remaining with which to defend the murderer. I didn't ask you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 9:23:46 GMT -6
You didn't ask me either but I'm going to answer you.
Why do the reports say bad things about Bethena? Because that is the only way scumpals do things, by lying, manipulating and they are just about as evil as their murdering dog shyt sniffing lovers.
I would hope that you would know that you can say anything you want to about the dead because you can't be sued for defamation. You know the nasty little law about not defaming the dead. So, you see they take that and twist it and turn it and kick it and keep going because not only does it raise the bar on reasonable doubt but it also takes the MVSs and kicks them square in the gut so it takes a bit of time to get their breath back. TOTALLY EVIL BULL SHYT and you just handed it to someone that is very much loved and respected here, so if you don't like others standing up for a friend than too FU(KIN BAD
Btw, if you really wanted an answer from JBS than why didn't you just ask her privately in a PM? Instead you put it here to do what?? Rub her nose it, kick her in the gut, humiliate her with the lies, just plain hurt her. So don't you dare bytch if someone else answers you when you put it up for the whole board.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 9:29:16 GMT -6
Why do the news reports and Wikipedia have it all wrong concerning your daughter and her relationship to the man she gave a ride to? I saw a website that said terrible things about her and I wonder, how on earth do you cope with that kind of misinformation that is put out for people to read? I've actually seen Wikipedia be correct a couple of times, but it never lasted long. The idiots just change it again. Someone keeps trying to put the truth back, I think; whoever they are, I say God bless them. The lazy reporters are not something I can fix either. Even a cursory look at the appeals online would have told them that he was convicted as the primary actor, not under the law of parties. I guess they just copied and pasted whatever they found plastered all over the internet by the scumpals in that last few weeks. Maybe it would be better to ask those reporters who got it so very wrong why they were so lazy, if you want to know. Even posters at reddit.com figured out she was lying like mad in just one thread. The truth is out there for anyone who cares to look, they can find her own memorial site googling just with her first name - I did that years and years ago. Anyone who cares about the truth can find it. I can't make them care about the truth if they don't. There are nuts all over the internet who want to create some drama they are supposedly at the center of, or have information about. Blah blah blah blah We saw the trials, we read the appeals, we knew her, we know they are liars. Since the execution, we have met and talked to some of the witnesses, and the young lady who had been originally supposed to give Ron that ride that night. She told us she'd been grounded by her parents, and that is why Ron had asked Bethena to give him a ride at the last minute. Anyway, you can't shut them all up, and I won't spend the rest of my life upset and fighting about something that can't be done; the courts have made it all public record. I think we did get as much justice for her as possible. And the trashy drama queens don't really matter. The truth has been seen in the courts and online too, if that's what a person really wants to find. That's really all we can do, that and love her forever.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 9:45:43 GMT -6
There was not much to see really; he just went to sleep, even snored a bit And I'm still so glad you and Char and Lisa were there. But I'm sorry they upset you. I think the most nerve-wracking part for me was walking across that street afterwards to speak to the press XOXOXOXOXO dear friend Is it too much to hope for that you at least flipped them the bird? I wouldn't do well at these sort of people there. They need an ass-whuppin',and wouldn't it be fun to hand some out? I'll bet LTDC would help, too. He has a genuinely bad attitude. I admire that in a man. We saw a couple of people down at the end of the street where they are allowed to stand, but we did not hear anything. I guess they weren't smart enough to get there early enough for us to hear them. We went in pretty early, there were a lot of steps to get through for security
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Post by Kay on Apr 28, 2013 11:27:08 GMT -6
Can you employ a little empathy for a moment and really think about your question? Lies are the only thing remaining with which to defend the murderer. I didn't ask you. And I didn't attempt to answer your question, you however, have answered mine.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 28, 2013 13:28:14 GMT -6
Well said Sharon (greggsmom) And scumpals aren't banned here (straight off the bat.) Yet we go to the Pro murder boards and say something bad about the inmate while saying something good about the victim and its an instant ban. Speaks VOLUMES.
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Post by Californian on Apr 28, 2013 20:22:01 GMT -6
You didn't ask me either but I'm going to answer you. Why do the reports say bad things about Bethena? Because that is the only way scumpals do things, by lying, manipulating and they are just about as evil as their murdering dog shyt sniffing lovers. I would hope that you would know that you can say anything you want to about the dead because you can't be sued for defamation. You know the nasty little law about not defaming the dead. So, you see they take that and twist it and turn it and kick it and keep going because not only does it raise the bar on reasonable doubt but it also takes the MVSs and kicks them square in the gut so it takes a bit of time to get their breath back. TOTALLY EVIL BULL SHYT and you just handed it to someone that is very much loved and respected here, so if you don't like others standing up for a friend than too FU(KIN BAD Btw, if you really wanted an answer from JBS than why didn't you just ask her privately in a PM? Instead you put it here to do what?? Rub her nose it, kick her in the gut, humiliate her with the lies, just plain hurt her. So don't you dare bytch if someone else answers you when you put it up for the whole board. You shouldn't be so circumspect, Sharon. Sometimes I find myself wandering what you really think.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2013 22:05:08 GMT -6
JBS,
thank you for being forthright and answering my queston, which by the way, was not intended to offend you in any way.
from your profile, I was able to read about your daughter then I followed some links when I realized you were able to witness the execution of her murderer and that is when I started finding lie and misinformation on the internet.
I know you can't possibly right all the wrongs that have been put out there but I do want to say I'm sorry not only for your loss but the information that people who don't care put on the internet regardless of whom it hurts.
If I offended you by asking in public I apologize
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on Apr 29, 2013 2:13:03 GMT -6
Fret not, the wrong has been righted. By execution
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Post by Matt on May 5, 2013 18:56:06 GMT -6
Personally I no longer rate Wiki as credible at all, as this discussion so painfully and obviously illustrates. Unfortunately people pay it far too much attention. Actual, real, sources are out there, but people are too lazy to look and so accept the first thing that pops up at the top of their Google search page.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 22:40:02 GMT -6
Personally I no longer rate Wiki as credible at all, as this discussion so painfully and obviously illustrates. Unfortunately people pay it far too much attention. Actual, real, sources are out there, but people are too lazy to look and so accept the first thing that pops up at the top of their Google search page. it's not just Wiki that prints misinformation but also newspapers and private websites; there really is no way to combat all the misinformation out there except hope people research what they are looking for to find the truth and all sides to the situation
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