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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 13:22:03 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap?
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on May 26, 2010 13:30:30 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? Yup, and before you call it crap, maybe you'd like to explain how we should rehabilitate child killers, serial killers, torturers, serial rapists or people who kill behind bars?
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Post by whitediamonds on May 26, 2010 13:38:37 GMT -6
Crap? lol
Yes,of course in this perfect world no one is unable to be rehabilitated,, no one !!! Have facts on that?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 13:56:12 GMT -6
2 responses. 2 people deceived by a lie. In the first response, to propose that they cannot be rehabilitated is to propose that they have no freewill. In that case, why condemn them, they're as innocent as you can get.
The second response is under some illusion that you have to have a perfect world in order for it to be possible for all to be rehabilitated. Again, the suggestion is that they have no freewill, which is completely false.
I'm sorry that people believe in this lie that has no substantiation and seems to be made up by hateful people as an excuse to hate on criminals.
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Post by whitediamonds on May 26, 2010 14:05:48 GMT -6
2 responses. 2 people deceived by a lie. In the first response, to propose that they cannot be rehabilitated is to propose that they have no freewill. In that case, why condemn them, they're as innocent as you can get. The second response is under some illusion that you have to have a perfect world in order for it to be possible for all to be rehabilitated. Again, the suggestion is that they have no freewill, which is completely false. I'm sorry that people believe in this lie that has no substantiation and seems to be made up by hateful people as an excuse to hate on criminals. Of course all have free will, and no rehabilitation can help if the individual cannot or will not help themselves. Being this will never be a perfect world some. ALL are just not going to change.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on May 26, 2010 14:20:40 GMT -6
2 responses. 2 people deceived by a lie. In the first response, to propose that they cannot be rehabilitated is to propose that they have no freewill. In that case, why condemn them, they're as innocent as you can get. The second response is under some illusion that you have to have a perfect world in order for it to be possible for all to be rehabilitated. Again, the suggestion is that they have no freewill, which is completely false. I'm sorry that people believe in this lie that has no substantiation and seems to be made up by hateful people as an excuse to hate on criminals. Of course they have free will, they have exercised free will to rape and kill knowing full well the ethics and consequences. Now, perhaps you should try answering my question.
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Post by reapwysow on May 26, 2010 14:31:57 GMT -6
Has there ever been anyone , in the history of the world who has rejected rehabilitation? If the answer to this is yes , then the statement cannot be a lie.
on the contrary , it only suggests that they refuse to be rehabilitated. Refusal is an exercise of free will.
Something has to be perfect in order for "ALL" to be included in your evaluation. Tell us , what perfect program are you proposing to ensure ALL brutal murderers are rehabilitated. It would go to reason that no matter what you do some will reject rehabilitation. If they all accept rehabilitation then wouldn't that sort of rub up against your free will assertion?
Don't be sorry sir, i have no problem being who I am. you seem to have a problem with it , and that's OK , Christians are predisposed toward that way of thinking and i understand it. I have actually received more condemnation from Christians then i have from any other group for my beliefs.
Salvation removes the debt carried by the soul. It does not remove the debt owed to society.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 26, 2010 16:09:24 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? Quite the opposite. With a little bit of pancaronium bromide, I believe ALL criminals can be "rehabilitated."
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Post by Kay on May 26, 2010 16:32:22 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? I'm an anti and I absolutely believe that's true. And who is to say when someone is "rehabilitated" and worth the risk?
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Post by Californian on May 26, 2010 16:57:12 GMT -6
I'm sorry that people believe in this lie that has no substantiation and seems to be made up by hateful people as an excuse to hate on criminals. (What an idiot!) Peace, man!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2010 18:09:15 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? Yes, Because there are criminals in this world who like what they do and who they are. Even with the threat of the death penalty and LWOP. That just makes it more exciting
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Post by kingsindanger on May 26, 2010 21:14:18 GMT -6
Confirmation of this can be found by looking at the repeat offender %. If everyone was able to be rehabilitated, there would be zero repeat offenders.
Just to illustrate my point, how many people out there violate parole and find themselves right back in prison?
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Post by halflife1052 on May 26, 2010 21:25:51 GMT -6
I suppose you could come up with a rehabilitation program. You could model it after some of the best programs for impulsive/compulsive behaviour (that being a 12 step program). Step one come to believe that we have no power or murdering people etc etc. You could take it into the prisons and hod meetings with the deathrow population. Of course for anonymity reasons the guards would have to leave you alone in a locked room with your subjects for an hour. Get Back to me after that first meeting. P.S don't forget the serenity prayer at the end.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 26, 2010 21:35:59 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? I am going to entertain this post with a serious reply: No criminal can ever be rehabilitated. Mainly, moral rehabilitation is not something that passively happens to someone, and rehabilitation can never be imposed on someone by an outside force. Yes, all criminals can rehabilitate themselves if they choose, and yes, in certain cases, society can give them some tools. But rehabilitation must come within, and it takes genuine humility on the part of the POS. In short, criminals cannot be rehabilitated in the same way that sick people can be cured of diseases. Ultimately, many criminals will never choose to rehabilitate themselves in any sincere way. If you think otherwise, you don't know much about life. On any account, regardless of any rehabilitation, a criminal must serve the sentence that was given to him for his past actions.
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on May 27, 2010 1:19:11 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? You don't actually know any criminals do you? Oh and i'll have a kilo of whateever it is you're jamming up your nose
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Post by Felix2 on May 27, 2010 2:15:01 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? I am going to entertain this post with a serious reply: No criminal can ever be rehabilitated. Mainly, moral rehabilitation is not something that passively happens to someone, and rehabilitation can never be imposed on someone by an outside force. Yes, all criminals can rehabilitate themselves if they choose, and yes, in certain cases, society can give them some tools. But rehabilitation must come within, and it takes genuine humility on the part of the POS. In short, criminals cannot be rehabilitated in the same way that sick people can be cured of diseases. Ultimately, many criminals will never choose to rehabilitate themselves in any sincere way. If you think otherwise, you don't know much about life. On any account, regardless of any rehabilitation, a criminal must serve the sentence that was given to him for his past actions. Well I have seen Llanarth Court, a medium secure psychiatric hospital get some good results locally here in Wales. Yes, it does depend on the individual engaging in the process, but if you create the cimcumstances where they are likely too, it is possible. I am thinking primarily about dangerous males, with personailty disorders who then go on to make disclosures about childhood sexual abuse and who do make good in the long run, and I'm as cynical as the next person.
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swif
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Post by swif on May 27, 2010 6:44:55 GMT -6
If you thought Ted Bundy had been rehabilitated, would feel alright with him living next door to you and your family
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 13:29:35 GMT -6
So I should come back and post my views in 10 years? Then again has anyone heard of the statement "those who are born to soon are born just in time"?
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 27, 2010 13:35:13 GMT -6
So I should come back and post my views in 10 years? Then again has anyone heard of the statement "those who are born to soon are born just in time"? You are free to love all people, and you are free to treat criminals on par with their victims if you see them that way. But while you are doing that, I will be paying for the security system that I had to install in my house after a recent parolee broke in and burglarized me in my sleep last month.
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Katyusha
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Post by Katyusha on May 27, 2010 14:47:20 GMT -6
Does anyone on here actually believe in this crap? Ok...I agree to a certain degree that this is true,f.e with regard to the criminally insane.Some people should NEVER be allowed back into society,like serial killers,but I think we all agree on this. So yes,some can not be rehabilitated and thus have to be seperated from society forever. The rest....there are a lot of people who have commited crimes when they were f.e drug addicts.These people can most certainly be rehabilitated if given a good environment. Probably around 92% can be helped with their behaviour ect. Just to say "cannot be rehabilitated" is way to easy.Better give s.o a long,harsh sentence and see to it that the victim's family get's to meet the criminal and tell him/her straight into his/her face about the sorrow he/she has caused them. Often this can become the first step towards healing and forgiveness...And no,i don't live in a pink-sugar-candyworld,I'm just a very utilitarian kind of person and don't be the G-d-will-be-judge-ect stuff...
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Post by Californian on May 27, 2010 14:55:33 GMT -6
These people can most certainly be rehabilitated if given a good environment. Probably around 92% can be helped with their behaviour ect. 92%, eh? That's a pretty specific number. May I ask where it came from?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:10:13 GMT -6
These people can most certainly be rehabilitated if given a good environment. Probably around 92% can be helped with their behaviour ect. 92%, eh? That's a pretty specific number. May I ask where it came from? Even the criminally insane can be rehabilitated, so it's not 92 % but 100%. Now imagine a locked door, someone walks up to it sees that its locked and slightly pushes on the door a little bit. They then walk off and say, "that door can't be opened". Thats what it looks like to me when one says that someone can't be rehabilitated.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 27, 2010 15:25:05 GMT -6
92%, eh? That's a pretty specific number. May I ask where it came from? Even the criminally insane can be rehabilitated, so it's not 92 % but 100%. Now imagine a locked door, someone walks up to it sees that its locked and slightly pushes on the door a little bit. They then walk off and say, "that door can't be opened". Thats what it looks like to me when one says that someone can't be rehabilitated. I can just picture you touring a prison. You'd be walking down the cell hall, and an inmate would say, "hey lovesallpeople, I've got a secret to tell you. Lean over and stick your ear in the food port of me cell door." You'd then wonder what happened when you woke up in the prison infirmary with a real hole in your head.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:28:17 GMT -6
Even the criminally insane can be rehabilitated, so it's not 92 % but 100%. Now imagine a locked door, someone walks up to it sees that its locked and slightly pushes on the door a little bit. They then walk off and say, "that door can't be opened". Thats what it looks like to me when one says that someone can't be rehabilitated. I can just picture you touring a prison. You'd be walking down the cell hall, and an inmate would say, "hey lovesallpeople, I've got a secret to tell you. Lean over and stick your ear in the food port of me cell door." You'd then wonder what happened when you woke up in the prison infirmary with a real hole in your head. Why do you think I'm naive to the way murderers are?
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 27, 2010 15:30:44 GMT -6
I can just picture you touring a prison. You'd be walking down the cell hall, and an inmate would say, "hey lovesallpeople, I've got a secret to tell you. Lean over and stick your ear in the food port of me cell door." You'd then wonder what happened when you woke up in the prison infirmary with a real hole in your head. Why do you think I'm naive to the way murderers are? Because you think they can all be rehabilitated, as if rehabilitation is some passive process that we can impose on them despite their commitment to criminality.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:37:50 GMT -6
Why do you think I'm naive to the way murderers are? Because you think they can all be rehabilitated, as if rehabilitation is some passive process that we can impose on them despite their commitment to criminality. That's like saying I would drink the nastiest water you can find just because it's possible for it to be purified.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:44:05 GMT -6
Why not get rid of the death penalty and just have LWOP instead. Then we can take the extra money we would save and invest it towards helping out troubled kids who would otherwise become murderers themselves.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on May 27, 2010 15:49:24 GMT -6
I can just picture you touring a prison. You'd be walking down the cell hall, and an inmate would say, "hey lovesallpeople, I've got a secret to tell you. Lean over and stick your ear in the food port of me cell door." You'd then wonder what happened when you woke up in the prison infirmary with a real hole in your head. Why do you think I'm naive to the way murderers are? Because you ignore the hundreds of murderers and rapists who have sworn to be rehabilitated with the backing of psychiatrists, wardens and lawyers so that they could be released. And once free quickly reoffended. Men like Darryl Kemp and Mark Dean Schwab who committed rape and murder within months of being released because their therapists swore they would never kill again. Now, before you dismiss what I said why don't you favor us with your 100% fail proof means of converting rapists and murderers into good people.
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mst3k4evur
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Post by mst3k4evur on May 27, 2010 15:50:19 GMT -6
Why not get rid of the death penalty and just have LWOP instead. Then we can take the extra money we would save and invest it towards helping out troubled kids who would otherwise become murderers themselves. And when one of these LWOP killers stabs a guard or rapes an inmate?
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 15:54:36 GMT -6
Why do you think I'm naive to the way murderers are? Because you ignore the hundreds of murderers and rapists who have sworn to be rehabilitated with the backing of psychiatrists, wardens and lawyers so that they could be released. And once free quickly reoffended. Men like Darryl Kemp and Mark Dean Schwab who committed rape and murder within months of being released because their therapists swore they would never kill again. Now, before you dismiss what I said why don't you favor us with your 100% fail proof means of converting rapists and murderers into good people. Only in an extremely, extremely, extremely rare situation do I think a murderer should ever be released from prison. So what is wrong with isolating a murderer away from other inmates and monitoring every letter they send out? It would be just as effective as capital punishment when it comes to keeping others safe. But it keeps the option open for them to give something back to society. And like I said the extra money that we would save could be used to help troubled youth and prevent many from becoming murderers in the first place.
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