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Post by Pameeeeee on Apr 15, 2005 14:37:43 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society.
It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder?
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Post by cynthiak on Apr 15, 2005 14:55:26 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder? You honestly think a couple more months would have helped anything? All the years before did nothing. He would have done it whether he served the whole term or not and deep down inside, you know that.
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Post by josephdphillips on Apr 15, 2005 15:08:01 GMT -6
Attempted murder isn't the ultimate crime and doesn't qualify for the ultimate sentence. The guy did his time and was paroled according to the law.
That this individual wasn't rehabilitated and went on to murder pretty much explains why rehabilitation, as a penological theory, never works in practice. It's not an individual's environment that drains one of all moral restraint. It's a question of character, and whether someone wants to be seen as having any.
The murderer is not one of these people.
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Post by kma367 on Apr 15, 2005 17:37:01 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder? Bagwell wasn't "dumped back out into society" early as you erroneously put it. At the time of his crime, the system in Texas was flawed in that there was no such thing as "life without parole" and there was a system in place that granted good time to prisoners on a very liberal basis. This enabled many who shouldn't have been released to obtain parole, including Bagwell and Kenneth McDuff. In fact, as I understand, there was no choice in the matter. Their releases were required under the law in existence at the time of their crimes and original sentences. Bagwell obviously didn't feel he needed to be reformed, or he would've made some attempt to change his own attitudes during the period he was incarcerated, which was approximately 13 years. That is probably why when he committed his next heinous offense in September of 1995, 4 months after his release, he made sure that his victim(s) was dead and thereby unable to identify him. kma367
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Post by sally104 on Apr 15, 2005 18:22:08 GMT -6
We talk about rehabilitation how a if we get the right professionals etc etc etc. Most rehabilitation is done when the crook getting outside of prison says "bugger this" I am going to try and live a better life. All the counsellors and other associated people do is to teach them how to do it
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Post by GlennF on Apr 16, 2005 4:39:52 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder? Do you honestly think that if he was let out 5 years later serving his full 18 years he would have been a "good boy"? The murders would probably have happened five years later that's all! Now, if he had been sentenced to LWOP for attempted capital murder then they MIGHT have prevented the murders!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2005 4:49:49 GMT -6
You only see the small number of cases where it turns out badly. Most (90-95%) of all offenders will get out at some point. When someone is on parole or probation they are under supervision, forced into programs, etc. to try to make it so they do not reoffend. It is not a perfect system, but unless you are psychic, can read minds, or can see into the future, you will misjudge some people. I would much rather have there be some supervision, rather than throwing them out and telling them to be good boys and girls.
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Post by Pameeeeee on Apr 16, 2005 14:29:18 GMT -6
Do you honestly think that if he was let out 5 years later serving his full 18 years he would have been a "good boy"? The murders would probably have happened five years later that's all! Now, if he had been sentenced to LWOP for attempted capital murder then they MIGHT have prevented the murders! I do not know what might have been if he was kept in the full 18 years. Maybe, possibly another 5 years might have brought him the maturity and wisdom and compassion to make him want to change his ways.
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Post by Felix2 on Apr 16, 2005 14:40:46 GMT -6
Attempted murder isn't the ultimate crime and doesn't qualify for the ultimate sentence. The guy did his time and was paroled according to the law.
That this individual wasn't rehabilitated and went on to murder pretty much explains why rehabilitation, as a penological theory, never works in practice. It's not an individual's environment that drains one of all moral restraint. It's a question of character, and whether someone wants to be seen as having any. Joseph Philips. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst you make valid points, I have to say you are factually incorrect about rehab never working in practice.. That is a general sweeping statement and there are examples where it does work. Problem is that the successful individuals resume a normal productive life and hence never get the attention the others do. The other point is that effective rehab is expensive. The open prison at USK in the UK is an example of a system where prisoners spend time there before release, but working on a program to prevent relapse. The same is in place for forensic mental health services and it is successful.
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Post by dio on Apr 22, 2005 18:32:27 GMT -6
This thread originated on April 15,2005.Dennis Bagwell was executed on February 17,2005.A period of 2 months lapsed,what real purpose would a debate of his potential rehab,after he has been executed,can possibly be deisired or achieved.Perhaps we are only substitutung names here.Is it not quite possible that someone is overly concerned with the fast approaching flip of the calendar page,and is grasping straws to save another mutt?
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Post by Tozzie on Apr 22, 2005 22:50:29 GMT -6
What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening?
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Post by dio on Apr 22, 2005 23:03:23 GMT -6
What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? EXCELLENT IDEA Tozzie!!!!!!!!!!If only the politicians judges and lawyers could think 1/2 this clearly the DR population would dwindle to a small handful of mutts in under a week.
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Post by Pameeeeee on Apr 24, 2005 13:13:45 GMT -6
This thread originated on April 15,2005.Dennis Bagwell was executed on February 17,2005.A period of 2 months lapsed,what real purpose would a debate of his potential rehab,after he has been executed,can possibly be deisired or achieved.Perhaps we are only substitutung names here.Is it not quite possible that someone is overly concerned with the fast approaching flip of the calendar page,and is grasping straws to save another mutt? Sorry you are wrong on this one Dio. I just happened to be reading up on different cases. It has nothing to do with the upcoming execution calander. And my question was a legitimate one. You feel all killers should be killed. I feel they should be locked up. I did not know at the time of Bagwells execution that he had a prior, I was only made aware of that through reading and then I question history. I can understand how you seem to be confused though. ****Not mentioning any improper personal attacks here****
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Post by dio on Apr 24, 2005 19:57:48 GMT -6
Sorry but your wrong.If you truly favored proper punishment for Bagwell,be that a needle or a cell,priors wouldn't be so important.Are you implying,by saying they are,that Bagwell should have drew a pat on the back if he had no priors?Past activity is of no matter,the FACT that these mutts kill folks is the issue at hand....write that
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Post by lucchesicourt on Apr 25, 2005 4:49:10 GMT -6
I believe the penalty for atempted murder should be EXACTLY the same as the penalty for murder. Why? The intent was the same, just because they weren't any good at completing the task shouldn't be reason for giving them a lighter sentence. And like I said INTENT. There are people who are killed in street fights, but the intent is not to kill. But, sometimes people do die in such altercations. But lets say, a guy enters a bank to rob, and shoots some people and they all survive. Why should this guy be treated any differently than an actual murderer? I know no reason.
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Post by Prometheus on Apr 27, 2005 21:25:18 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. While I admire your faith in human judgement and ability I should point out that many of you pros seem to think that the system is infallible. Just because the rhetoric of our prison system stresses rehabilitation does not mean that practice lives up to promise. In truth, our prison system seems more about locking "undesirables" away from the rest of the population rather than rehabilitation or instilling within those who can be rehabiliitated the skills necessary to become functional members of society on the outside. Remember that in many (and note that I say many, NOT all,) cases it is circumstance that makes a criminal. Shifting gears just a bit...I realize, of course, that the justice system is constructed in such a way as to allow for its own fallibility, however, when it is a matter of life and death I believe we as a civilized society that claims to value human rights can not afford to make mistakes. The execution of even one innocent person is one too many.
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Post by cynthiak on Apr 27, 2005 22:12:57 GMT -6
Trust me, Pameeee is anti.
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Post by Charlene on May 8, 2005 7:28:23 GMT -6
The same as you can't know that someone who once committed murder is truly a "changed man", the parole board can't know that someone who is eligible for parole is going to kill again. How hard is it to stop murdering when you are in prison and your target population is not available? No one to rob, why bother to kill when the certainty that you will be caught is 90% or more? I say either death or life without parole - one murder is all you should ever get the chance to commit. I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder?
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Post by sally104 on May 8, 2005 16:30:34 GMT -6
Perhaps a question that an anti needs to answer is
Why do murderers have the right to rehabilitation? Judges take this factor into account when sentencing a murderer in my state ( I am Australian by the way).
I am prepared to argue that even if a convicted murderer is guaranteed 100% reformed from his or her old ways, i will still say they should remain in prison becuase what they did was so rotten they dont deserve a future!
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Post by josephdphillips on May 30, 2005 21:34:25 GMT -6
I am prepared to argue that even if a convicted murderer is guaranteed 100% reformed from his or her old ways, i will still say they should remain in prison becuase what they did was so rotten they dont deserve a future! That is true. The murderer can never atone. It's a crime that is never closed. The best we can do is execute the murderer. At least it won't kill again, or pollute the environment by its presence.
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Post by Felix2 on May 31, 2005 2:48:45 GMT -6
That is true. The murderer can never atone. It's a crime that is never closed. The best we can do is execute the murderer. At least it won't kill again, or pollute the environment by its presence. Jaws Philips strikes again. Jaws is now God, note the way HE decides a murderer can never atone? He's higher than Christ and God now who taught the opposite! I gotta hand it to Jaws though, he is entirely predictable if grandiose!
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Post by josephdphillips on May 31, 2005 9:16:21 GMT -6
Jaws Philips strikes again. Jaws is now God, note the way HE decides a murderer can never atone? He's higher than Christ and God now who taught the opposite! I gotta hand it to Jaws though, he is entirely predictable if grandiose! Felix, the village idiot, returns. Is your diaper full, or are you attempting logical thought again? It smells the same to me. For those of you who aren't parasites, I use the verb "atone" and the noun "atonement" in the secular sense. To atone is to make amends, which is impossible after someone has been murdered.
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Post by Felix2 on May 31, 2005 9:25:35 GMT -6
Felix, the village idiot, returns. Is your diaper full, or are you attempting logical thought again? It smells the same to me. For those of you who aren't parasites, I use the verb "atone" and the noun "atonement" in the secular sense. To atone is to make amends, which is impossible after someone has been murdered. If that is the case Jaws, would it not be better to use strictly secular languauge to convey your meaning then? Just in the interests of clarity, with you being a writer and all of that?
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Post by Tony on May 31, 2005 18:19:56 GMT -6
I was just scrolling through past executed offenders in Texas. One person that jumped out at me was Dennis Bagwell. He was released on parole just 4 months before committing the murders that he received the death penalty and was executed for. His prior conviction was attempted capital murder and he was sentenced to 18 years in 1982. He was paroled in May of 1995 and in September of 1995 committed the murders that he was executed for. ONLY 4 MONTHS LATER. My question is this, why did they release him early? This shows there is something wrong with the system, doesn't it? Obviously he was not rehabilitated. He was just dumped back out into society. It seems he went to prison at age 20, released at age 33 and back at age 33 and executed at age 43. What can be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening? Besides killing them all!! Shouldn't they stay in for their full prison terms for things such as murder or attempted murder? The reason "Animals" get released early is because of "good behavior" or "Time spent in jail". I forget how many days get knocked off your sentence just by behaving in prison and not getting into any kind of trouble. Also the "Animals" are good con artists when it comes time to parade their parasite (borrowing from Joe) bodies before the parole board and fooling the panel that they are reformed, have found Jesus and all the other crapp to get their *%#*@* out of prison.
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Post by Felix2 on Jun 1, 2005 4:16:34 GMT -6
The reason "Animals" get released early is because of "good behavior" or "Time spent in jail". I forget how many days get knocked off your sentence just by behaving in prison and not getting into any kind of trouble. Also the "Animals" are good con artists when it comes time to parade their parasite (borrowing from Joe) bodies before the parole board and fooling the panel that they are reformed, have found Jesus and all the other crapp to get their *%#*@* out of prison. what else do you make up in your mind Tony?
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Post by Elric of Melnibone on Jun 4, 2005 17:32:34 GMT -6
I truly believe in rehabilitation...However, some people are not capable of being rehabilitated, either by force or by themselves... They will continue to commit crimes until they finally kill someone...Then, people will moan and whine that this person had no chance, he didn't get the Barbie doll he wanted, whatever...
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