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Post by General Hurtado on Apr 28, 2004 10:23:16 GMT -6
Someone explain:
How are Cary Anne Medlin's last words ("Jesus loves you...") revevant to this situation? While inspiring in their love, what does it matter what the girl says in determining whether her killer should get the death penalty? Why don't we show the same love Medlin did, and give the man another chance? Saying "Jesus loves you" implies that she did not hate the man. Would it be in her spirit to kill him?
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Post by TexasLady on Apr 28, 2004 10:36:25 GMT -6
Someone explain: How are Cary Anne Medlin's last words ("Jesus loves you...") revevant to this situation? While inspiring in their love, what does it matter what the girl says in determining whether her killer should get the death penalty? Why don't we show the same love Medlin did, and give the man another chance? Saying "Jesus loves you" implies that she did not hate the man. Would it be in her spirit to kill him? Perhaps it would help if you clicked on the link and read the page. Most of the confession was a nightmare for the family. There was, however, one part of the Coe's testimony that stood out. It was that something that told Cary's loved ones that the Lord had taken care of her, even to the end. Just prior to ending the misery of this poor defenseless angel, Coe said she looked up at him with trusting eyes and said, "Jesus loves you." Even Coe choked back tears telling this part of his confession.
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Post by jamie on Apr 28, 2004 14:36:57 GMT -6
Can we even trust that Coe is telling the truth? He pretty much blew all his creditablity when he raped and killed Cary Anne.
Just a thought, Jamie
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Post by General Hurtado on Apr 28, 2004 16:25:13 GMT -6
To TexasLady: "Most of the confession was a nightmare for the family. There was, however, one part of the Coe's testimony that stood out. It was that something that told Cary's loved ones that the Lord had taken care of her, even to the end. Just prior to ending the misery of this poor defenseless angel, Coe said she looked up at him with trusting eyes and said, 'Jesus loves you.' Even Coe choked back tears telling this part of his confession. " I still don't see how this means Coe should be killed. It means he was extremely cruel. It means Medlin had Christ-like kindness. Nothing there means Coe should be killed, but rather, like I said earlier, to the contrary in the spirit of Medlin's words.
To Jamie: It is a possibility that Coe is lying, but it is a possibility that his prosecutors are lying about something. In court you have to trust the evidence; you can't assume a defendent is lying under oath unless there is evidence that (s)he is.
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Post by thecoyote on Apr 28, 2004 16:43:25 GMT -6
Someone explain: How are Cary Anne Medlin's last words ("Jesus loves you...") revevant to this situation? While inspiring in their love, what does it matter what the girl says in determining whether her killer should get the death penalty? Why don't we show the same love Medlin did, and give the man another chance? Saying "Jesus loves you" implies that she did not hate the man. Would it be in her spirit to kill him? Doesn't really matter much, now does it? Since Robert Glen Coe was put to death, like the rabid dog child killer should have been, on April 19,2000, or just over 4 years ago. The link to Cary is to remind others that the VICTIMS need to be remembered, and also to show what the MUDRDERERS have done to deserve death. In this case, Coe lived 21 YEARS after the vicious murder he committed... probably would haved died of old age in prison if people like General Hurtado and the other anti's had their way. Want to know why I am NOT in favor of LWOP? Pure and simple. There is NO way to guarantee that the person sent to prison today on LWOP, won't, due to changes in the law, be out in 25 years. Or escapes from prison. If we think that locking up the criminal for life is a guarantee that the criminal won't kill again, we better take a closer look at the number of inmates who have committed murder behind bars. I agree with John McAdams "If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call." And it is not a tough call to me, either The Coyote
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Post by General Hurtado on Apr 28, 2004 20:22:32 GMT -6
Coyote says: "Want to know why I am NOT in favor of LWOP? Pure and simple.
There is NO way to guarantee that the person sent to prison today on LWOP, won't, due to changes in the law, be out in 25 years. Or escapes from prison. If we think that locking up the criminal for life is a guarantee that the criminal won't kill again, we better take a closer look at the number of inmates who have committed murder behind bars."
First of all, if they are out in 25 years it will be because they have changed, and pose no more threat to people... an they're not stuppid enough to commit another crime that will land them back in jail. They will also not escape from prison... they make those places pretty high-security.
You are willing to trade the certain death of a human being, someone in desparate need of help for the remote chance that the person will commit another murder. Maybe I'll be more understanding of your position if you can cite evidence that released murder convicts very often kill again, or that life-in-prison inmates have escaped.
Furthermore, I am appalled at McAdams' lack of value for human life. A murderer may be a bad person, but does that mean their life is less precious? That they are worth nothing? They are the people we should be helping! They are the tormented souls we should be reforming! Any easy choice for you, eh? Tell that to the family of the convicted man.
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Post by TexasLady on Apr 29, 2004 14:29:23 GMT -6
First of all, if they are out in 25 years it will be because they have changed, and pose no more threat to people... an they're not stuppid enough to commit another crime that will land them back in jail. They will also not escape from prison... they make those places pretty high-security. Tell that to Kenneth McDuff and Ted Bundy's victims. You bet. See above for just two examples. Absolutely. Some people are beyond reform.
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Post by General Hurtado on Apr 29, 2004 17:43:08 GMT -6
I guess it boils down to simple differences in opinion.
But I urge you to remember that executing a person will cause as much grief for their family as it will to the families of a victim in the possible chance that they will kill again (for which there are a handful of examples compared to the nealry 900 people executed in the US since 1976). You would be causing unecessary grief and suffering when THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE! Don't answer violence with violence. Answer violence with love. Then at least you've done the right thing.
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Post by TexasLady on Apr 29, 2004 19:33:31 GMT -6
I guess it boils down to simple differences in opinion. But I urge you to remember that executing a person will cause as much grief for their family as it will to the families of a victim in the possible chance that they will kill again (for which there are a handful of examples compared to the nealry 900 people executed in the US since 1976). You would be causing unecessary grief and suffering when THERE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE! Don't answer violence with violence. Answer violence with love. Then at least you've done the right thing. Executions aren't violent. Most antis think that the murderers should be given LWOP so there's really no benefit to society to keep them alive. There's no potential. There's only suffering by the MVS.
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Post by General Hurtado on Apr 30, 2004 16:24:28 GMT -6
Open your eyes. "Violent" or not (even though I think it is) , executing a person will cause tremendous grief for that person's loved ones, who are innocent.
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Macklin
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The more clearly we see the sovereignty of God, the less preplexed we are by the calamities of men.
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Post by Macklin on May 1, 2004 14:42:42 GMT -6
General Hurtado....You Wrote:
"Furthermore, I am appalled at McAdams' lack of value for human life. A murderer may be a bad person, but does that mean their life is less precious? That they are worth nothing? They are the people we should be helping! They are the tormented souls we should be reforming!"
MY REPLY: What you should be appalled at is the murderers lack of value for human life.
The Type of murderers that get the DP have absolutely NO value for human life at all...they kill for the most trivial of reasons for money, for greed, to satisfy a sexual urge, for the fun of it, or just to see how it feels to kill somone.
Lots of murderers have been nothing but predators and parisites that have preyed upon innocent people most of their lives...just what is their value to their fellow man and why should their lives be more valueable then their victims ?
What value is it to mankind is there for them to continue living ?
The only help they need is in getting to the gurney so that the juice can flow into their veins and put an end once and for all of them ever having a chance to kill anyone else.
If their souls are tormented then they have earned being tormented.
Sorry to bust your deluded little bubble there.....but one can only be rehabilitated if one wants to be..and I think you will find it very hard to rehabilitate someone who beats off while they relive the murders of their victims in their minds over and over again.
Oh their might be a possibility that they will lie to you and you would believe them....you seem gullible. Just like you can never tame a wild beast. You can not rehabit a henious phycopathic killer. and only a fool would believe they could.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2004 15:36:56 GMT -6
You are crazy, General Hurtado. Any family member of Coe's family who would be sad at his execution is a sick freak like you are. If I found out my Uncle had raped and murdered a young girl, I'm not going to shed any tears for him, and Im sure as hell not going to visit him in his cell for the next 50 years and send him care packages....anyone who would is little better than a criminal themselves.
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Jochen
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Post by Jochen on May 3, 2004 22:14:27 GMT -6
You are crazy, General Hurtado. Any family member of Coe's family who would be sad at his execution is a sick freak like you are. If I found out my Uncle had raped and murdered a young girl, I'm not going to shed any tears for him, and Im sure as hell not going to visit him in his cell for the next 50 years and send him care packages....anyone who would is little better than a criminal themselves. Come on Beedo, You support the DP and I've stopped to criticize you because of this. But probably you may agree with some of your Pro's who determine Capital Punsihment as "necessary and effective for public saefty" instead of talking down the rest of dignity of a condemned prisoner. Some ( I mean a part of 'em) may deeply regret for the crimes they've committed. And in my oppinion they should always have the privilege of doing a final statement as long the majority of Americans thinks that Capital Punishment is the solution against crime. Arguing in this aggressive manner you're practising once more here doen't let appear your points of serious for those who're undicided or almost rational in the question of executions. I can't help see you as someone who likes lynch- and sadismlike justice programms realized... Jochen
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Jochen
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Post by Jochen on May 3, 2004 22:17:08 GMT -6
Come on Beedo, You support the DP and I've stopped to criticize you because of this. But probably you may agree with some of your Pro's who determine Capital Punsihment as "necessary and effective for public saefty" instead of talking down the rest of dignity of a condemned prisoner. Some ( I mean a part of 'em) may deeply regret for the crimes they've committed. And in my oppinion they should always have the privilege of doing a final statement as long the majority of Americans thinks that Capital Punishment is the solution against crime. Arguing in this aggressive manner you're practising once more here doen't let appear your points of serious for those who're undicided or almost rational in the question of executions. I can't help see you as someone who likes lynch- and sadismlike justice programms realized... Jochen ps I've got some technical problems with my server so my posting may appear uncompletly composed. Sorry! Jochen
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Post by Donnie on May 3, 2004 22:22:48 GMT -6
executing a person will cause tremendous grief for that person's loved ones, who are innocent. You don't know if it will cause them grief or not and you don't know if they are innocent. Often the defense claims that the murderer's family caused the murderer to commit his evil acts. In addition the execution is always much more pleasant than the murder. Also, the murderer's family has many more advantages that were denied the victim's family. The murderer's family is always treated more fairly than the victims' family, just as the murderer is always treated more fairly than the victim.
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Post by Donnie on May 3, 2004 22:49:57 GMT -6
And in my oppinion they should always have the privilege of doing a final statement as long the majority of Americans thinks that Capital Punishment is the solution against crime. I doubt if anyone in America thinks that Capital Punishment is the solution against crime. It has prevented several hundred murders and provided a minimal approach to justice for the victims. But potential criminals are the ones who have the solution to crime. Perhaps you can convince them that they should use their powers to do good instead of evil.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2004 14:00:25 GMT -6
Good to see you got out of the insane asylum, Jochen. I bet General Hurtado is either A.) your instuctor/psychologist at your treatment facility or B.) one of you pyschotic multiple personalities
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Jochen
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Post by Jochen on May 4, 2004 22:21:29 GMT -6
Good to see you got out of the insane asylum, Jochen. I bet General Hurtado is either A.) your instuctor/psychologist at your treatment facility or B.) one of you pyschotic multiple personalities Beedo, I like your dry humor! LOL !
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