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Post by Starling on Mar 28, 2004 20:11:59 GMT -6
I keep up with the scheduled executions in most states and have noticed with some disturbance that Efrain Perez and Raul Villareal no longer appear on the list of scheduled exeuctions for Texas. I haven't been able to find a reason for this. Can anyone here shed some light?
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Post by alicebowie on Mar 28, 2004 21:30:51 GMT -6
Haven't heard anything official as of yet but stays in both cases were expected. Apparently waiting for the supreme court's decision on "juvenile" offenders.
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Post by Donnie on Mar 28, 2004 21:56:19 GMT -6
Apparently waiting for the supreme court's decision on "juvenile" offenders. Yes, five tyrannical "justices" on the US Supreme Court are preparing to again amend the US Constitution. They are now conspiring with a cabal of anti-human "scientists" to increase the punishment of the innocent and glorify the most horrible murderers. ccadp.org/raulvillarreal-news2004.htmThomas Jefferson predicted this evil process 200 years ago, too bad nobody took him seriously.
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Post by Starling on Mar 28, 2004 22:36:32 GMT -6
The TDCJ website no longer has their names on their list of scheduled executions. I can only assume that this omission is the result of a stay. Disappointing does not even begin to describe it. What a continuing nightmare for the families of Elizabeth and Jennifer, who are by all rights entitled to closure and whatever peace they can find.
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Post by Donnie on Mar 28, 2004 22:45:21 GMT -6
The TDCJ website no longer has their names on their list of scheduled executions. I can only assume that this omission is the result of a stay. Disappointing does not even begin to describe it. What a continuing nightmare for the families of Elizabeth and Jennifer, who are by all rights entitled to closure and whatever peace they can find. As you can see by following the link below, Amnesty International is now using outright dishonesty in addition to falsehood by omission. In their "worldwide appeal" they don't mention the extent of the crimes that occurred and they lie by stating that the criminals were Hispanic and the victims were white. web.amnesty.org/appeals/index/usa-010204-wwa-eng
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Post by Starling on Mar 28, 2004 23:00:47 GMT -6
AI as a rule does not go into details of the crimes committed by death row inmates. To do this is detrimental to their cause (obviously!) as it reminds people what these poor misunderstood people did before they "reformed." The families of the victims, however, never forget, and have no such international organisation on their side.
In addition, AI often get involved in death row cases where the inmate themself has dropped all their appeals and wish to die. I have heard of death row inmates actually getting the courts involved to get AI off their backs and allow them to die with dignity.
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Post by Donnie on Mar 28, 2004 23:06:15 GMT -6
AI as a rule does not go into details of the crimes committed by death row inmates. To do this is detrimental to their cause (obviously!) as it reminds people what these poor misunderstood people did before they "reformed." The families of the victims, however, never forget, and have no such international organisation on their side. In addition, AI often get involved in death row cases where the inmate themself has dropped all their appeals and wish to die. I have heard of death row inmates actually getting the courts involved to get AI off their backs and allow them to die with dignity. I was an active member of AI for several years. But I had to leave when they took their insane position against all capital punihment. I have not paid much attention to them since then. But I was shocked and disgusted by their fundemental dishonesty in this case. They slippedy by the crimes as if it wasn't even relavent and they went beyond failing to mention details. They didn't even mention, without providing details, that rape was involved or that the victims were children. Then they outright lied to use race-baiting. When I was a member of AI, they were an honorable organization. It is sad that they have decided to begin taking their management direction from the pits of Hades.
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Post by Starling on Mar 29, 2004 18:10:05 GMT -6
Does anyone know if there have been any developments? Can we assume a stay is definite? And while we're on the subject, can anyone tell me why it is that only these two have execution dates - what about Jose Medellion and Peter Cantu and Sean O'Brien?
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Post by Donnie on Mar 29, 2004 21:03:38 GMT -6
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Post by Starling on Mar 29, 2004 22:29:46 GMT -6
*Sigh*
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Post by Angie on Apr 3, 2004 19:18:53 GMT -6
Well, I just visted a site in which Efrain Perez has posted an ad personal. He is trying to get pen pals to write to him. I am OUTRAGED. What kind of animal deserves to have a site that allows animals like that to become members so people can become their penpals. I have read the case, and I can't imagine the pain this family has gone through and has continued to go through. This animal also had his family set up a defense fund. This is the most ridiculous thing my two eyes have ever seen. And these 5 animals need to be put to death, although they will not suffer as much as those two beautiful young ladies did. You may contact me at brightnsunny83@Aol.com
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Post by WC87 on Apr 20, 2004 15:14:37 GMT -6
These dogs deserve no consideration whatsoever. I am saddened that stays have been issued and can only hope that the court decides the issue quickly
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Post by thecoyote on Apr 23, 2004 14:46:29 GMT -6
The Harris County Prosecutors office decided in March to not pursue a death warrant for either of these two until SCOTUS makes a final ruling on executing offenders who may be considered juveniles at the time of their crime: www.santegidio.org/pdm/news2004/19_03_04_b.htmArticle is in English, site is Spanish The Coyote
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Post by snowy111 on May 3, 2004 17:09:33 GMT -6
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Post by jenniferwa on May 13, 2004 14:14:43 GMT -6
Does anyone know what's going on with these cases?
Jen
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Post by birgitta2 on Jun 3, 2004 2:53:13 GMT -6
If they are waiting to executi Efrain and Raul because they were underage at the time of their crime why is Mauro Barraze still on the list. He is scheluled to be executed June 29, 2004. They are comvicted in different countys. Maybe that is the reason?
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Post by Mari on Jun 17, 2004 13:15:05 GMT -6
Mauro Barraza also got a STAY but he still appears with his execution date. I feel bad for the victims families and am truly sorry for the lose which that their daughters were still here. But, also hope that Efrain and Raul do NOT get executed. I would care less about O'Brien and Medellin but do know that Medellin should get an execution date at the end of this year for 2005 and O'Brien and Cantu's execution will be set for 2006.
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Post by Kimbelry T on Jun 24, 2004 9:57:21 GMT -6
I can't believe that these two critters got stays. Their crimes were horrendous. Charlene, what are your thoughts on this?
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Post by snowy111 on Jun 24, 2004 11:13:27 GMT -6
Before people start whining about Efrain and Raul being minors when they committed their crimes let's not for- get that Jennifer and Elizabeth were minors when they died!!! I am tired of people feeling sorry for juveniles when they commit horrendous crimes! It's not like they threw a rock through someone's window! That is what I would call immature behavior! Six young men against two young girls! They knew what they were doing and they thought it would make them big men! They were willing to brag about it! They are right where they be-long! ON DEATH ROW!!!
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Post by Charlene on Jun 25, 2004 4:31:52 GMT -6
It has been eleven years since Jenny & Elizabeth were murdered. It is appropriately pouring down rain here in Houston. I wish we had been able to go to Huntsville yesterday and Wednesday, but that will have to wait. I hope the Supreme Court does not decide that those under 18 at the time of the crime cannot be executed. They are about to finish their term for the year so the arguments will not be heard until this fall at the earliest with a decision likely next spring. I'd like all of my friends here to take a minute to think about Jenny & Elizabeth, perhaps visit their memorial page, regardless of what you think should happen to their five murderers. I can't believe that these two critters got stays. Their crimes were horrendous. Charlene, what are your thoughts on this?
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Post by CW on Jun 28, 2004 7:52:47 GMT -6
I can´t believe that you all speak of rights and justice - don´t you know that international right don´t allow to sentence to death ? That´s what makes me upset. What these men did is more than horrible, but what is going on with them is the same horrible thing. And someone needs to stop it. I would like to know what makes you feel right and sure that to execute them is right. It´s just hate you have. I guess it will make no difference when I tell you what I think of all that. Does anyone of you know Raul, Efrain or the others ? Do you know anything about their lives, circumstances of life...NO Do you know their families ? NO That´s why I think you have no right to judge. You use the victims to speak your opinion right.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 28, 2004 16:10:24 GMT -6
I've been in the same room as all of them, which I expect is more knowledge of them than you have. I have heard all of their confessions in these murders, which I expect you have not. I know how brutally they treated these girls before they strangled and stomped them and I expect that you do not know these details. What is happening with them is nothing near to the "same horrible thing" I assure you. It's ludicrous that you would claim as much. I can´t believe that you all speak of rights and justice - don´t you know that international right don´t allow to sentence to death ? That´s what makes me upset. What these men did is more than horrible, but what is going on with them is the same horrible thing. And someone needs to stop it. I would like to know what makes you feel right and sure that to execute them is right. It´s just hate you have. I guess it will make no difference when I tell you what I think of all that. Does anyone of you know Raul, Efrain or the others ? Do you know anything about their lives, circumstances of life...NO Do you know their families ? NO That´s why I think you have no right to judge. You use the victims to speak your opinion right.
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Post by Tiffany on Jul 2, 2004 6:59:10 GMT -6
I don't even know how I stumbled upon this page... But I just want to give my two cents, as I have been reading through this.
First of all, I read the tribute page to Jennifer and Elizabeth, and I want to say that my thoughts and prayers are with those beautiful girls and their families. I know the pain. My little brother was killed two years ago by three people that were supposed to be his friends - one his best friend. They beat him, strangled him, and threw him into a river and left him for dead. (He wasn't dead, however, since the M.E. found water in his lungs.) But enough of that.
These three young "men" were eligible for the death penalty. At first, I wanted the cretin to die, because my thoughts were, "Why should they live when they took that ability away from my brother?"
Then one night mom and I were talking. She said that she never wanted another parent to ever know what it's like to lose a child, so she was going to ask the D.A. not to seek the death penalty. I was shocked. But then I got to thinking... I didn't want them to die either. Why?
Because if they would die, that would be too kind. It would be too easy. All they would get was some poison in their arm and they would quietly go to sleep. Why should they have that pleasure? They needed to suffer the way they made my brother suffer. How would they suffer? By knowing that they'd have to rot in that prison - knowing they'd never get to walk outside without guns pointed in their direction - having to think every single day -when they yearned for their freedom, when they wanted to hug their children or kiss their wives/girlfriends- about why they couldn't... they would have to think about my brother every single day. Death would be the easy way out.
It's not about forgiveness... because there is no way I would ever forgive those monsters. It became about revenge.
I'm sorry if I've overstepped my boundaries here and for straying off topic. I just had to give my thoughts.
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Post by snowy111 on Jul 2, 2004 7:26:57 GMT -6
This message is for Tiffany. I understand your point but I don't know if you know that if these thugs don't get the death penalty they will get life in prison with the possibilty of parole. In Texas they don't have life with-out parole. In Texas life means 40 years with possibility of parole after you have served half of your sentence. Which means they could serve another ten years and be out walking the streets. My worst fear is them walking the streets. Aren't you glad some murders such as Ted Bundy will never escape from prison and will never be eligable for parole. They can never get the chance to harm another person because they are dead! Let God deal with them now!
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Post by Tiffany on Jul 2, 2004 19:23:18 GMT -6
I do understand that. Trust me, I do. Only one of these "people" who killed my brother will be in prison until he dies. One will not get out until he is in his 80s if he serves his entire sentence. The other, the youngest one... well, he'll probably be walking free by the time he is 30-40 since he pled down to manslaughter. He was the only one who didn't go to trial.
I still think Death Row is too kind for monsters such as these. They don't have to work. All they do is sit there and entertain themselves daily. Not to even mention the fact that they have millions of people who support them only because they're on death row. None of these people would give two flips about them if they were rotting away in general population.
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Post by Kelly T UK on Jul 12, 2004 13:50:03 GMT -6
I've looked on this site tonight as I've got an interest in 'Death Row' cases. I'm British and as you know we do not have the death sentence over here, we only have 'life' which doesn't appear to mean life in most cases. Anyway, I have to say that I am so amazed at how pro the death sentence most Americans are. Maybe that's because we're just not for it over here, but it's like there's so much hatred and unforgiveness towards these guys (Not just Efrain & Raul). I know what they've done is horrendous, but guys isn't your hatred just as bad as their sin! There's no way ANY of us want to experience what these poor families of the girls have had to suffer, and what the guys did IS horrendous but no hatred and even more death can bring them back. A saying I've heard which I believe is true is 'having resentment/bitterness towards someone is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die'. I'm sure you'll say it's naivety, and I may be wrong, only God our Maker knows, but two wrongs don't make a right. Yes these guys deserve punishment and to never be released, bit how can doing to them what they did to the girls (obviously not literally if you know what I mean, I simply mean the death sentence) make it right. The Bible says that it's no longer 'an eye for an eye'. I don't know what the answer is, but I cannot say that I agree with the death sentence.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 12, 2004 19:43:59 GMT -6
there's so much hatred and unforgiveness towards these guys (Not just Efrain & Raul). I know what they've done is horrendous, but guys isn't your hatred just as bad as their sin! There's no way ANY of us want to experience what these poor families of the girls have had to suffer, and what the guys did IS horrendous but no hatred and even more death can bring them back. How much love and lack of execution of the murderers will it take to bring back the victims? My hatred is not even close to being as bad as their sins. Nobody has ever suffered the slightest pain from my hatred. Nobody has been raped by my hatred. Nobody has died because of my hatred.
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Post by Donnie on Jul 12, 2004 19:48:29 GMT -6
The Bible says that it's no longer 'an eye for an eye'. In the case of murder combined with rape and murder, nothing in the Bible states that the DP should not be used. Even Jesus pointed out that a group of people who participate in a single simple murder must be executed. That is all participants, not just the one who struck the fatal blow. A merciful execution of these criminals would not be "an eye for an eye". It would be much more merciful than what they did.
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Post by AC on Jul 13, 2004 3:02:16 GMT -6
Kelly, I am also from the UK and like most of the UK I do believe in DP. I have been reading this site for a couple of years now and this is the first time I have posted.
I feel particularly stongly about this case and quite frankly they should be treated exactly as they treated their victims.
As for the juvenile argument, I have to say, I do find it strange that in some states (correct me if I'm wrong), you can't drink until you are 21 but you can be put to death. It's time the US actually balanced this up.
16 and 17 year olds are more than aware of right and wrong (except in a minority of cases where mental illness is an issue).
The only good thing about these guys getting a stay is that with a bit of luck, they will have more time to consider their own demise and I hope it scares the s*** out of them. I hope they wake every morning petrified of what will happen to them.
At the end of the day, only the victim's families know what it's like. It's a situation I pray no one has to go through.
And before the anti DP brigade start, I am also aware that there are innocent people on DR. This is my only problem with the DP. As I said though, in this case, why wait? They are guilty and costing the US money and the families more pain.
I just hope these monsters feel some of the pain that is being felt not only by the victims families but by their own families.
And long may they rot
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Post by Kelly T UK on Jul 14, 2004 10:37:17 GMT -6
How can two wrongs make a right? Executing these guys is not going to bring back the girls. All that it is creating, is more death and more hatred. Like I said last time, rape and murder are wrong, but so is hatred!
As humans we see one ‘sin’ as greater than another, thieving for example is seen as less ‘wrong’ than adultery. Yet to God, sin is sin, whether it is a relatively minor theft or serial adultery or even murder.
The Bible is very clear that we are not to judge others, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”. (Matthew 7:1-2) and also “You're familiar with the command to the ancients, "Do not murder.' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder.” (Matthew 5:21-22 MSG)
I have my views on things like we all do, but at the end of the day, my views are just MY views whereas what God says in the Bible is ETERNAL.
I really, really don’t know what the answer is, because when a person commits a crime of course they deserve punishment. But murdering someone because they’ve committed murder is just crazy to me. To me it’s like saying, ‘murder is wrong, therefore as punishment you will be murdered (the very thing that was wrong in the first place).
All of us have done foolish things at times and some of us have done appalling things. When we’ve done foolish or appalling things most of us feel pretty awful don’t we if we’re honest. And for some (not all) of the people on death row it will be the same; they have every day of their lives on this earth to think about what they’ve done. Some may not care less, but some truly do come to regret and hate what they’ve done. They know it’s too late to change anything, but they’re paying the consequence of their crime. Many of them probably hate themselves for what they’ve done more than what some of you hate them.
Don’t get me wrong, some of you may have met men/women from death row and you may just see anger/hatred/evil etc when you’ve seen them, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are still human no matter what they’ve done.
If any one of them did come to repentance and ask God for forgiveness then He would forgive them and although before man they still stand condemned, before God they are forgiven and accepted. It’s the amazing thing about the grace of God. No one is too far gone or ‘unforgiveable’ for God, even someone who has done the most horrendous of crimes.
None of what I say is a ‘personal go’ at anyone on this discussion board, but I do feel very strongly about this, as you obviously do also. It would be good to hear from you if you want to discuss in email, etc. My email is kellyturner5@hotmail.com
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