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Post by Charlene on Jun 25, 2003 4:58:45 GMT -6
Please spend a moment today thinking about the families of Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena. They were murdered in a gang-rape situation 10 years ago, June 25, 2003. They are the two teenage girls pictured at the top of the page here. www.murdervictims.com/voices/jeneliz.html
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Post by D.E.E. on Jun 25, 2003 7:04:25 GMT -6
;D I will keep them in mind today. Such a sad case.
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Post by christina on Jun 14, 2005 20:08:08 GMT -6
once again the date of there murders approach
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Post by christina on Jun 14, 2005 20:09:58 GMT -6
i think this case is the case that has me in the middle. i still struggle with how i feel about the dp. i feel it is not a deterrant because i dont feel it will stop murderers but i believe that there are some who just dont deserve to breath the same air as everyone else
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Post by dio on Jun 14, 2005 20:35:42 GMT -6
i feel it is not a deterrant because i dont feel it will stop murderers
Have you ever heard of an executed inmate killing again?.......I haven't!
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Post by anna_marek on Jun 24, 2005 7:38:59 GMT -6
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Post by snowy111 on Jun 24, 2005 8:27:56 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2005 9:19:11 GMT -6
Sadaversaries are so very, very hard. As the years go by, I seem to learn to walk through them with a bit better face on, but they never feel anything but horrifically painful. Even the year that I was on anti-depressants I was crying most of the day before and the day of. Some days there just are no pills for. Every one of these vicious murderers DESERVED the sentence he was originally given. Prayers for the families and friends of Jenny and Elizabeth. That means for you too, Charlene. Whatever comfort there may be for all of you, I hope you all find it this weekend.
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Post by john - uk on Jun 24, 2005 14:21:13 GMT -6
Anybody and everybody (pro or anti) who has read the details of this case should take the time on the 25th to spend just a few minutes of their day thinking of Jenifer and Elizabeth and their families.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 24, 2005 15:09:32 GMT -6
If you would like, you can visit the guestbook for their memorial page and leave a message. I know the parents do read the messages. www.murdervictims.com/Voices/jeneliz.htmlThanks for remembering everyone. Anybody and everybody (pro or anti) who has read the details of this case should take the time on the 25th to spend just a few minutes of their day thinking of Jenifer and Elizabeth and their families.
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Post by GlennF on Jun 24, 2005 15:16:02 GMT -6
Heartbreaking for such a terrible thing to happen! It is also sickening that their murderers will escape the punishment they so richly deserve - A symbolic kick in the teeth for the victims!
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Post by Felix2 on Jun 27, 2005 7:23:32 GMT -6
Heartbreaking for such a terrible thing to happen! It is also sickening that their murderers will escape the punishment they so richly deserve - A symbolic kick in the teeth for the victims! Whilst they will not be executed they will however be rightly punished Glenn so I fail to see how it is a kick in the teeth for these two victims?
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Post by Charlene on Jun 27, 2005 8:30:48 GMT -6
The irony of your comment struck me since one of the things that the medical examiner testified to was that Elizabeth was kicked in the teeth with enough force to knock out her two front teeth before she was killed. Heartbreaking for such a terrible thing to happen! It is also sickening that their murderers will escape the punishment they so richly deserve - A symbolic kick in the teeth for the victims!
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 8:48:38 GMT -6
Heartbreaking for such a terrible thing to happen! It is also sickening that their murderers will escape the punishment they so richly deserve - A symbolic kick in the teeth for the victims! Whilst they will not be executed they will however be rightly punished Glenn so I fail to see how it is a kick in the teeth for these two victims? I agree with Felix. Although they will not be executed, they indeed will suffer for a very long time in prison. I do not wish this upon them or anyone for that matter, but they may feel the pain of their victims first hand. God has a plan for all of us and I believe their lives were spared for a reason. Who knows what that reason is but it has happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead of wishing them harm where ever they may end up, let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now.
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Post by snowy111 on Jun 27, 2005 8:55:14 GMT -6
Heartbreaking for such a terrible thing to happen! It is also sickening that their murderers will escape the punishment they so richly deserve - A symbolic kick in the teeth for the victims! Whilst they will not be executed they will however be rightly punished Glenn so I fail to see how it is a kick in the teeth for these two victims? Because two of these and possibly three will probably get out while the girls remain dead.
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Post by anna_marek on Jun 27, 2005 9:04:09 GMT -6
Whilst they will not be executed they will however be rightly punished Glenn so I fail to see how it is a kick in the teeth for these two victims? I agree with Felix. Although they will not be executed, they indeed will suffer for a very long time in prison. I do not wish this upon them or anyone for that matter, but they may feel the pain of their victims first hand. God has a plan for all of us and I believe their lives were spared for a reason. Who knows what that reason is but it has happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead of wishing them harm where ever they may end up, let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now. If these murderous monsters suffer in any form, during LWOP, than the same behind the scenes forces which support the anti-DP movement will work to improve conditions in prisons. It is virtually impossible to put prison inmates in say isolation since this is now considered cruel and unusual punishment. More and more comfort, priviledges, etc. are being granted to prison inmates-including the worst of the worst. The trend is to make prison a better place to live in, better meals, more entertainment, more fun, more freedom, etc.. This the continuation of the anti-DP movement-although many antis don't realise this yet!
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Post by snowy111 on Jun 27, 2005 9:27:06 GMT -6
I agree with Felix. Although they will not be executed, they indeed will suffer for a very long time in prison. I do not wish this upon them or anyone for that matter, but they may feel the pain of their victims first hand. God has a plan for all of us and I believe their lives were spared for a reason. Who knows what that reason is but it has happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead of wishing them harm where ever they may end up, let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now. If these murderous monsters suffer in any form, during LWOP, than the same behind the scenes forces which support the anti-DP movement will work to improve conditions in prisons. It is virtually impossible to put prison inmates in say isolation since this is now considered cruel and unusual punishment. More and more comfort, priviledges, etc. are being granted to prison inmates-including the worst of the worst. The trend is to make prison a better place to live in, better meals, more entertainment, more fun, more freedom, etc.. This the continuation of the anti-DP movement-although many antis don't realise this yet! Besides that Spearmintgal these guys won't get LWOP.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jun 27, 2005 9:28:11 GMT -6
let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now. No, they're not. They're dead. God, I get so tired of these insensitive, pinhead comments about the slain. I only hope the parents of these two girls don't have to endure these thoughtless "better place" remarks.
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 9:37:24 GMT -6
I agree with Felix. Although they will not be executed, they indeed will suffer for a very long time in prison. I do not wish this upon them or anyone for that matter, but they may feel the pain of their victims first hand. God has a plan for all of us and I believe their lives were spared for a reason. Who knows what that reason is but it has happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead of wishing them harm where ever they may end up, let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now. If these murderous monsters suffer in any form, during LWOP, than the same behind the scenes forces which support the anti-DP movement will work to improve conditions in prisons. It is virtually impossible to put prison inmates in say isolation since this is now considered cruel and unusual punishment. More and more comfort, priviledges, etc. are being granted to prison inmates-including the worst of the worst. The trend is to make prison a better place to live in, better meals, more entertainment, more fun, more freedom, etc.. This the continuation of the anti-DP movement-although many antis don't realise this yet! Have you been in a prison? Or know someone who enjoys prison life because of the food they eat or the entertainment and fun they have. Please!!! The suffering involved for these men is wondering who your new cellie is going to be or wondering if you are going to have to be someone's b**** or having to sleep with one eye open because you fear you could be killed or wondering who you can trust. And this is all because they made a choice and now have to live with the consequences fo their actions. If they anti-DP movement want to work on making prison life better for the worst of the worst, then so be it. It's their choice!! There is a lot more behind-the-scene things going on that you think you know.
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 9:58:23 GMT -6
let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now. No, they're not. They're dead. God, I get so tired of these insensitive, pinhead comments about the slain. I only hope the parents of these two girls don't have to endure these thoughtless "better place" remarks. Yes, they are dead and I realize that but they are in a better place with no more suffering and pain whether you would like to believe that or not. And if you read their guestbook, there are people all over the world who agree with me. Their parents know this and although they have not forgotten, they have moved on because as one of the parents put it in a newspaper article "life does go on". They would like to remember them as they lived not as they died. So you are the insensitive pinhead!!!!
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Post by Kay on Jun 27, 2005 10:05:00 GMT -6
Tx Girl, I'm an anti too, but do you have any children? Do you ever wonder how it would feel to lose a child? These parents had their children's lives stolen. And not only were their lives snuffed out, but they were taken in the most unimaginably brutal way....something their parents live with everyday. These parents will never see their daughters graduate or marry. So not only did these murderers steal their children, they took away these parents futures.
I find it very difficult to muster any sympathy for any sufferings the murders endure in prison. And if I was going to change my stance, this would be the kind of case that would sway me to the other side.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 27, 2005 10:10:19 GMT -6
What's wrong with speculating about how rough their lives might be when they are in general population? When they were in jail awaiting trial, they weren't treated too well by their fellow inmates. They came to court with bruises and bandages and expletives written on their jail clothing. I wasn't feeling too sorry for them. The people they will be in general population with are going to be the same types of people they were in the Harris County Jail with. Again, I am not feeling too sorry for them. Could be going from the frying pan into the fire.... Whilst they will not be executed they will however be rightly punished Glenn so I fail to see how it is a kick in the teeth for these two victims? I agree with Felix. Although they will not be executed, they indeed will suffer for a very long time in prison. I do not wish this upon them or anyone for that matter, but they may feel the pain of their victims first hand. God has a plan for all of us and I believe their lives were spared for a reason. Who knows what that reason is but it has happened and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Instead of wishing them harm where ever they may end up, let's remember that Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena are in a better place now.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 27, 2005 10:13:39 GMT -6
PLEASE do not presume to speak for the parents of these girls. If you want to be a penpal to these jerks, go ahead, you probably deserve it. But you have absolutely no business coming here and injecting your own utopian viewpoint as though it has some similarity to what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking. You don't have a clue what they are thinking. No, they're not. They're dead. God, I get so tired of these insensitive, pinhead comments about the slain. I only hope the parents of these two girls don't have to endure these thoughtless "better place" remarks. Yes, they are dead and I realize that but they are in a better place with no more suffering and pain whether you would like to believe that or not. And if you read their guestbook, there are people all over the world who agree with me. Their parents know this and although they have not forgotten, they have moved on because as one of the parents put it in a newspaper article "life does go on". They would like to remember them as they lived not as they died. So you are the insensitive pinhead!!!!
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 10:31:28 GMT -6
PLEASE do not presume to speak for the parents of these girls. If you want to be a penpal to these jerks, go ahead, you probably deserve it. But you have absolutely no business coming here and injecting your own utopian viewpoint as though it has some similarity to what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking. You don't have a clue what they are thinking. Yes, they are dead and I realize that but they are in a better place with no more suffering and pain whether you would like to believe that or not. And if you read their guestbook, there are people all over the world who agree with me. Their parents know this and although they have not forgotten, they have moved on because as one of the parents put it in a newspaper article "life does go on". They would like to remember them as they lived not as they died. So you are the insensitive pinhead!!!! Charlene, I read the newspaper articles in the Houston Chronicle which stated this comment. As it also stated that they removed themselves from JFA because the efforts seemed fruitless. So unless this newspaper article was a complete fabrication, then I was stating what I read. Also, I never once mentioned I was a penpal of anyone so it's a little rude to assume otherwise. I know that this case is the whole reason you have this website and I have said nothing insensitive about the girls or your cause. And you are correct, I do not have a clue what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking.
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 10:53:10 GMT -6
Tx Girl, I'm an anti too, but do you have any children? Do you ever wonder how it would feel to lose a child? These parents had their children's lives stolen. And not only were their lives snuffed out, but they were taken in the most unimaginably brutal way....something their parents live with everyday. These parents will never see their daughters graduate or marry. So not only did these murderers steal their children, they took away these parents futures. I find it very difficult to muster any sympathy for any sufferings the murders endure in prison. And if I was going to change my stance, this would be the kind of case that would sway me to the other side. First of all, I have not once said I feel sympathy for the men involved in this case. So I am not sure where this is coming from. Secondly, I was trying to point out the fact that suffering is indeed what will happen to the two young men when they get to their final destination. And whether I have children is not the point here. I never once said I was anti or pro. I came on here to give my opinion of why these boys lives were spared.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 27, 2005 11:03:09 GMT -6
No, you didn't SAY you were a penpal, but you do spout prison words like "cellie" when referring to their new cellmates. That's a clear indication of a scumpal if I ever saw one, and I have seen plenty. And even hardcore antis don't like or defend these guys, so yeah, I think you probably write to one of these jerks. Call me rude, but you can also call me right. I notice you did not say that you didn't write to them, so how about a direct question? Do you write to any of the five murderers of Jenny Ertman and Elizabeth Pena, or to Jenny's rapist Vinnie? How you interpret "life does go on" to mean anything except what it says is beyond me, but someone who defends murderers is well-versed in twisting around the truth anyway. And the families did not "remove themselves from JFA" - they moved out of Houston. PLEASE do not presume to speak for the parents of these girls. If you want to be a penpal to these jerks, go ahead, you probably deserve it. But you have absolutely no business coming here and injecting your own utopian viewpoint as though it has some similarity to what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking. You don't have a clue what they are thinking. Charlene, I read the newspaper articles in the Houston Chronicle which stated this comment. As it also stated that they removed themselves from JFA because the efforts seemed fruitless. So unless this newspaper article was a complete fabrication, then I was stating what I read. Also, I never once mentioned I was a penpal of anyone so it's a little rude to assume otherwise. I know that this case is the whole reason you have this website and I have said nothing insensitive about the girls or your cause. And you are correct, I do not have a clue what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking.
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Post by bryan on Jun 27, 2005 11:16:21 GMT -6
i doubt you will get any kind of a straigh answer from her....shes filled her head with so much anti dribble its confused her sence of motor skills...
i been thinking about these girls the last week or so and thinking how much pain they went threw....i got a letter from my brother 2 days ago but could'nt stop thinking about these 2 girls...i realized one victem in the same as another....and if someone should die for killing one victem...someone should die for killing all victems...people say the god would forgive killers...or jesus would forgive killers...well i dont...and they being executed is a way of means for them to talk to god one-on-one
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 11:25:48 GMT -6
No, you didn't SAY you were a penpal, but you do spout prison words like "cellie" when referring to their new cellmates. That's a clear indication of a scumpal if I ever saw one, and I have seen plenty. And even hardcore antis don't like or defend these guys, so yeah, I think you probably write to one of these jerks. Call me rude, but you can also call me right. I notice you did not say that you didn't write to them, so how about a direct question? Do you write to any of the five murderers of Jenny Ertman and Elizabeth Pena, or to Jenny's rapist Vinnie? How you interpret "life does go on" to mean anything except what it says is beyond me, but someone who defends murderers is well-versed in twisting around the truth anyway. And the families did not "remove themselves from JFA" - they moved out of Houston. Charlene, I read the newspaper articles in the Houston Chronicle which stated this comment. As it also stated that they removed themselves from JFA because the efforts seemed fruitless. So unless this newspaper article was a complete fabrication, then I was stating what I read. Also, I never once mentioned I was a penpal of anyone so it's a little rude to assume otherwise. I know that this case is the whole reason you have this website and I have said nothing insensitive about the girls or your cause. And you are correct, I do not have a clue what the Ertmans and Penas are thinking. First off, NO I DO NOT WRITE TO ANY OF THE MEN INVOLVED!!!!! Secondly, I know the words "cellie" because I know people who have come out of prison. I didn't realize I would be villified for knowing these words. And I have not once defended the men involved in this case. All I wanted to make clear was they (juveniles) WILL suffer in prison. I understand that this case hits close to home because it happened to people you know but that does not give you any right to judge me because I have not said once that I am defending these men involved or that I have no sympathy for the Ertman and Pena familes. And yes the families moved from Houston but the articles did say one family stayed away because they felt efforts were fruitless and the other stayed away because they were tired of talking about death and crime. All I did was state what was read. Nothing else.
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Post by txgirl on Jun 27, 2005 11:35:16 GMT -6
i doubt you will get any kind of a straigh answer from her....shes filled her head with so much anti dribble its confused her sence of motor skills... i been thinking about these girls the last week or so and thinking how much pain they went threw....i got a letter from my brother 2 days ago but could'nt stop thinking about these 2 girls...i realized one victem in the same as another....and if someone should die for killing one victem...someone should die for killing all victems...people say the god would forgive killers...or jesus would forgive killers...well i dont...and they being executed is a way of means for them to talk to god one-on-one Yes I did give her a straight answer and no my "sence" is not confused. You people seem to take what is written and twist it around. Because I know the word "cellie", I'm a penpal, because I describe "suffering in prison" I'm an anti or defending the men involved or because I said "Jennifer and Elizabeth are in a better place", I am an insensitive pinhead." Geesh!!
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Post by Charlene on Jun 27, 2005 11:39:37 GMT -6
Let's take a look back, shall we? You are the one whose second post on this board was to call some members "idiots" - not exactly a stellar start. You also said that you did not wish for these guys to suffer, and that other people here should not wish them harm. You exclaimed, "There is a lot more behind-the-scene things going on that you think you know," as though no one on this board could possibly know anything about life in prison, but of course you do. You then presumed to speak for people you do not know. If people here assume that you are an anti or a penpal, that should not be a big surprise to you. No, you didn't SAY you were a penpal, but you do spout prison words like "cellie" when referring to their new cellmates. That's a clear indication of a scumpal if I ever saw one, and I have seen plenty. And even hardcore antis don't like or defend these guys, so yeah, I think you probably write to one of these jerks. Call me rude, but you can also call me right. I notice you did not say that you didn't write to them, so how about a direct question? Do you write to any of the five murderers of Jenny Ertman and Elizabeth Pena, or to Jenny's rapist Vinnie? How you interpret "life does go on" to mean anything except what it says is beyond me, but someone who defends murderers is well-versed in twisting around the truth anyway. And the families did not "remove themselves from JFA" - they moved out of Houston. First off, NO I DO NOT WRITE TO ANY OF THE MEN INVOLVED!!!!! Secondly, I know the words "cellie" because I know people who have come out of prison. I didn't realize I would be villified for knowing these words. And I have not once defended the men involved in this case. All I wanted to make clear was they (juveniles) WILL suffer in prison. I understand that this case hits close to home because it happened to people you know but that does not give you any right to judge me because I have not said once that I am defending these men involved or that I have no sympathy for the Ertman and Pena familes. And yes the families moved from Houston but the articles did say one family stayed away because they felt efforts were fruitless and the other stayed away because they were tired of talking about death and crime. All I did was state what was read. Nothing else.
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