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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 7:15:16 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel
Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus.
Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts..
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Post by Kay on May 10, 2009 7:24:35 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. I can only think of cons, but then I'm an anti: 1. Disrespectful to the MVS, in my opinion, a media circus, and added pain. 2. More attention given to the murderer, and more sympathy for the one about to be executed. 3. Disrespectful to the family of the murderer, thinking of people who tried their hardest to raise a decent human being.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on May 10, 2009 7:32:07 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. All of Kays' comments plus, The profits go to whom? PPV gets a cut naturally, but does the family of the victim and the family of the condemned get a payday too? Second, I don't care what kind of controls and ratings you put on it, kids will see it. Then outraged parents will want it off the air, then the networks will opine for their 1st Amendment rights. Then all PPV and pay radio will come under fire. This whole thing blows up in your face. The list could go on and on. No, I think the whole thing is a bad idea.
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Post by deathcub2000 on May 10, 2009 8:06:25 GMT -6
What about the news and the History Channel. I have watched several hangings and firing squad executions on these venues as well as one man dying on the guillotine. One time Phil Donahue was all gung ho about showing executions on his program. He was sure the barbarity of the whole thing would turn the American public against the death penalty. During this time period, there was a report about China selling body parts from executed prisoners. The report showed (in prime time from start to finish) a video of a man kneeling and another man shooting him in the back of the head. I hadn't heard a bit of outcry over any of these shows. Now if you were to get a pay-per-view of the execution, you should also show a re-enactment of the murder that landed the prisoner on the gurney in the first place to balance it. I would watch it.
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Post by Charlene on May 10, 2009 8:44:54 GMT -6
What about the news and the History Channel. I have watched several hangings and firing squad executions on these venues as well as one man dying on the guillotine. One time Phil Donahue was all gung ho about showing executions on his program. He was sure the barbarity of the whole thing would turn the American public against the death penalty. During this time period, there was a report about China selling body parts from executed prisoners. The report showed (in prime time from start to finish) a video of a man kneeling and another man shooting him in the back of the head. I hadn't heard a bit of outcry over any of these shows. Now if you were to get a pay-per-view of the execution, you should also show a re-enactment of the murder that landed the prisoner on the gurney in the first place to balance it. I would watch it. A re-enactment could never balance the scales.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 8:52:17 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. To address Kay's concerns, executions are public acts. They are not performed for the benefit of any one person or group. If MVSes or the family members of the condemned don't like public executions, that's tough.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 9:01:01 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. To address Kay's concerns, executions are public acts. They are not performed for the benefit of any one person or group. If MVSes or the family members of the condemned don't like public executions, that's tough. Oh, you ARE brave, Joe! ;D For my own self, I far prefer this attitude about MVS than the pretense that being pro has anything to do with us. As for executions being made public, as they are done on behalf of 'we, the people', I agree. We do tend to hide them like we're ashamed. Maybe, mostly, we are.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 9:09:45 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. To address Kay's concerns, executions are public acts. They are not performed for the benefit of any one person or group. If MVSes or the family members of the condemned don't like public executions, that's tough. And why would you make viewing mandatory? Do you think this would prevent murder?
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Post by The Tipsy Broker on May 10, 2009 9:59:38 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. To address Kay's concerns, executions are public acts. They are not performed for the benefit of any one person or group. If MVSes or the family members of the condemned don't like public executions, that's tough. It feels cheap to say 'yep what he said' but I totally agree with you here Joe. So yep, what he said.
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Post by Felix2 on May 10, 2009 10:06:17 GMT -6
What would be the benifits vs the cons of having such a channel Pros, Imo,people could view executions at their own discretion,if you didnt want to watch tune off,it would be a pay per view,moneys would go to a fund to counsel victims of crime,rehabilitation services, & other legal services that would help ensure that death row inmates got proper legal representation,so they dont drag out their appeals it might have a deterence effect (might)if it detered 1 person from committing a murder,well its a plus. Cons,Only problem i would have is if children,under 18 could tune into it,any thoughts.. There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. To address Kay's concerns, executions are public acts. They are not performed for the benefit of any one person or group. If MVSes or the family members of the condemned don't like public executions, that's tough. And your professional qualifications for making such sights mandatory for children to watch? Exactly, nada, In fact Mr Philips what you propose ought to place you under investigation for child abuse, but then I have read your views as to what you'd think is normal and ok to expose children to sexually, but I'll grant you, you are consistent, - consistent in your failure to appreciate what is and is not appropriate for young mind and the vulnerable to be exposed to.
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Post by honeyroastedpeanut on May 10, 2009 10:26:19 GMT -6
No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. Mandatory for children to watch an execution!? Please don't let such a controversial point stand w/o explaining the benefits you anticipate from this. I can only see frightened kids in front of the TV and some violent junkies getting wood while watching a human being die, not more. People who are interested in justice can go to the courts and watch the trials. That should be enough. I only see a ligitimate interest in watching an execution on the side of MVSs and the side of relatives of the convict.
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Post by deathcub2000 on May 10, 2009 10:39:54 GMT -6
Sorry, I must have not been clear on my "balance" statement. What I meant was to show the reason why the condemned prisoner was getting executed in the first place;i.e. balancing the report Watching someone being put to death without knowing why would evoke some sympathy. Watching the killer bludgeon a victim then putting the killer to death puts it in perspective IMHO.
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Post by SubSurfCPO(ret) on May 10, 2009 10:40:22 GMT -6
[There's nothing wrong with making executions public. Citizens have every right to see justice done. I agree; it used to be done this way. No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. Agreed again. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. Definitely not, I agree with Felix and while I do not agree with his course of action concerning you personally, I do share in the tenor of his rebuke. Now you're just being irritating and arrogant.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 10:47:24 GMT -6
No one should have to pay for that right. It ought to be free. As for the kids, I would not only want them to see executions, I would make such viewings mandatory. Mandatory for children to watch an execution!? Please don't let such a controversial point stand w/o explaining the benefits you anticipate from this. I can only see frightened kids in front of the TV and some violent junkies getting wood while watching a human being die, not more. People who are interested in justice can go to the courts and watch the trials. That should be enough. I only see a ligitimate interest in watching an execution on the side of MVSs and the side of relatives of the convict. I dunno. Kids would be pretty bored with the whole thing I should think, what with the murderer going to sleep the long sleep. It's not the least violent, so I don't see violence junkies being very impressed either. Meanwhile, if this form of 'justice' is in the name of the people, the people should not only have the right to view the execution, but (again, MO) ought be made to see the consequences of their choices.
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Post by D.E.E. on May 10, 2009 11:26:00 GMT -6
While I have no real problem with it being public, I much prefer that no one knows the date that someone is executed. If the person was executed in private with only state witness and then the public is told days later it would remove the whole circus that the media likes to make of it. It is justice not a spectator sport, while it used to be done in public I see no real benefit of doing so. It has nothing to do with being ashamed as some have said it has ever thing to do with the media and the group of people who come out with their little signs and make a mockery of justice. The media often makes hero's of criminals and this would eliminate that. The execution is done so many years after the crime was committed that public execution loses its value. The criminal is paying for his/her crime and that is all there is to it, and that is all there should be to it.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 10, 2009 12:44:44 GMT -6
I support this fully. If executions are unfit for public consumption or the tender eyes of children, we probably should not be doing them at all. Throughout most of human history children have been witness to executions. If they kids could handle it back in the days of the Roman Coliseums (or the public hangings in Kentucky in the 1930s), they can handle it today. We have no problem showing kids prisons both on TV and in some cases real life. So why not show executions too? After all, an execution is carried out in the name of "We the People." So why are we too squeamish or ashamed to show the People what it is all about? So yeah, I say do these things in public, but I'll settle for pay-per-view at this point.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2009 14:05:30 GMT -6
I would like to go for it, except I wouldn't be able to watch because I'm not 18 and I'm not planning to move out yet. However, I'm sure somebody could put it on YouTube. As long as young children under 18 would not be able to see it on paper view, and I know I wouldn't, but I don't think that it should be shown to younger viewers.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 10, 2009 14:13:38 GMT -6
I would like to go for it, except I wouldn't be able to watch because I'm not 18 and I'm not planning to move out yet. However, I'm sure somebody could put it on YouTube. As long as young children under 18 would not be able to see it on paper view, and I know I wouldn't, but I don't think that it should be shown to younger viewers. Any kid can view executions on youtube. Even public stonings from the Middle East. No harm can come of it. If anything it would help our kids become better pros.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2009 14:19:41 GMT -6
I just don't want to see parents bitchin' about this.
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Post by Rev. Agave on May 10, 2009 14:28:09 GMT -6
I just don't want to see parents bitchin' about this. If parents would not want their kids to witness an execution that the parents support, the parents are hypocrites and really should not be supporting the DP. If we are going to juice these a$$holes, we need to be up front about it in all aspects and acknowledge it for what it is. When you make the choice to methodically strap down a POS and intravenously poison in front of a room full of witnesses, you better be proud of what you are doing. You have to own it and pass it on.
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Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2009 14:30:27 GMT -6
Though I think that it might be a lot more cool if we also got to see the EKG flatline and the machine or executioners pushing the drugs. Guatemala uses a machine. Don't know if it is the Leuchter based machine.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:11:47 GMT -6
I don't think so. A murder victim survivor is but one citizen among many. While s/he may seek redress in civil courts for damages, the prosecution of criminal law doesn't depend on what MVSes want or don't want. It's supposed to be about what's in the best interest of the state, and by extension that of the state's electorate. For my own self, I far prefer this attitude about MVS than the pretense that being pro has anything to do with us. You're right. It doesn't. Pro or anti, we should speak with one voice for the dead, not for the living. Since the dead can't vote, we are left with deciding how to punish murder before any of us become murdered, not afterwards. And yet, as a society, we embrace moral ambivalence as "civilized." Instead of punishing crimes, we punish criminals. For thousands of years we knew what to do with murderers. All of a sudden we don't. It's disgusting. As for executions being made public, as they are done on behalf of 'we, the people', I agree. We do tend to hide them like we're ashamed. Maybe, mostly, we are. I would agree. People tell pollsters one thing about capital punishment, but do nothing to see that their opinions become public policy. The death penalty won't die -- we haven't the courage to admit that we really don't want to execute people. No, we'll let capital punishment lapse into a coma, from which it will never awake. And you antis will laugh yourselves silly. Why? Because you will get the "blame" for killing the death penalty when, in fact, you had absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:13:36 GMT -6
why would you make viewing mandatory? Do you think this would prevent murder? Yes. It will deter at least one person. Right now even Texas is a paper tiger. Commit a murder in any DP state, and your chances of being executed are next to none.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:21:06 GMT -6
[/b] for children to watch an execution!? Please don't let such a controversial point stand w/o explaining the benefits you anticipate from this.[/quote] What's controversial? Don't we make them watch videos of car crashes, to deter them from unsafe driving? Don't we give them condoms whenever they ask for them? Don't they have unrestricted rights to abortion, without parental consent or even knowledge? More to the point, don't we charge them as adults for murder committed at age 14? What is so wrong with telling children that the state doesn't tolerate murder under any circumstances? Why wait until they're 18, when it's probably too late to make a difference? I can only see frightened kids in front of the TV That's the point. and some violent junkies getting wood while watching a human being die, not more. They are doing that anyway. People who are interested in justice can go to the courts and watch the trials. No they can't. Most people live nowhere near a criminal court, and the courtrooms aren't nearly big enough to accommodate them. I only see a ligitimate interest in watching an execution on the side of MVSs and the side of relatives of the convict. Neither are victims of murder or of murderers. They are citizens just like anyone else.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:27:00 GMT -6
Now you're just being irritating and arrogant. No it's not. It's fact. The pursuit of justice is in the name of all citizens, not just those whose loved ones have been murdered. What about justice for those murder victims who have no family? What about what matters the people of the state, who want harsher punishment of murder than what MVSes want? And why are we concerned at all with what is best for the family members of criminals? Do their opinions matter now, regarding where their convicted relatives are incarcerated? Do they get to decide how prisons are run, or who gets visitation? Why then, should it matter what they think about executions? It's not arrogant to state simple fact. The disposition of a murderer, or any criminal, is the people's business and not the sole dominion of private parties.
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:36:28 GMT -6
Kids would be pretty bored with the whole thing I should think, what with the murderer going to sleep the long sleep. It's not the least violent, so I don't see violence junkies being very impressed either. Meanwhile, if this form of 'justice' is in the name of the people, the people should not only have the right to view the execution, but (again, MO) ought be made to see the consequences of their choices. I agree. I'd string up murderers right in the street, proximate to the location of the murders themselves. Staple a big sign on each murderer's corpse with the name of the victim and let the murderers' bodies rot in the sun. The problem with the death penalty is that it no longer has any moral force at all. It has lost any instructive value. We don't take each murderer to the mat, regardless of expense. That would require moral backbone. Instead we worry about the "feelings" of the few we do condemn, to the point where we will eventually discuss inviting Cinderella's fairy grandmother to dispatch each murderer by waving her magic wand and saying "bippety-boppity-boo."
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Post by josephdphillips on May 10, 2009 19:38:26 GMT -6
I just don't want to see parents bitchin' about this. Your parents might think differently if you were murdered. Erick's right. If voters aren't really ashamed of capital punishment, why are they acting like they are?
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Post by kingsindanger on May 10, 2009 19:49:08 GMT -6
I would very much support executions being aired- available through an online feed.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 19:50:28 GMT -6
When I was a kid, I could not figure out why they would not show the hangings of 2 Australian Drugs traffickers executed in malaysia, when I asked my mum, it made her very concerned about my mental health
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Post by honeyroastedpeanut on May 11, 2009 4:40:23 GMT -6
What's controversial? Don't we make them watch videos of car crashes, to deter them from unsafe driving? Don't we give them condoms whenever they ask for them? Don't they have unrestricted rights to abortion, without parental consent or even knowledge? More to the point, don't we charge them as adults for murder committed at age 14? OK, now you're talking about kids 14 and up. Not that I approve now but I thought of an execution broadcast between two episodes of Sesame Street. Anyway, I wouldn't even show a 14 year old photos of a car crash and especially not of executions. The result will not be respect for the law but fear of the state, I guess. BTW: How does the mandatory watching of executions fit in your concept of "liberty above everything". It would infringe the right of the children, the right of the parents to parenting etc. Why opt for such drastic measures? You just risk creating psychological sick people by that. As I said: they will be frightened but don't we want them to have respect rather than fear? I don't think all youths have the ability to limit this fear to the fact that the state only kills you if you have murdered. Now they might do it with pictures of accidents etc. But it would be even more shameful if they did it with pictures showing what Pros believe to be justice, wouldn't it? Don't 80 % of Americans live in urban/suburban areas? Additionally they do broadcast trials, don't they? Even if not, the problem would remain with public executions. Who lives near the spot where it's done?
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