Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 8, 2009 18:58:13 GMT -6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_EvansThis happened in Britain in the 50's. Timothy Evans was executed for the murder of his daughter, though during his trial the court heard evidence of the murder of his wife. The star witness against Evans was, John Christie, who almost certainly was responsible for the crime. He himself was later to be discovered responsible for a number of murders and was executed himself. One would doubt that these particular circumstances would have led Evans to the execution chamber in the USA in this era becuase of the following *The Death Penalty may not have been sought - DP was a mandatory punishment at the time of Evan's trial * Retardation issue, Evans was borderline mentally retarded *Many more appeal rights, som key exculpatory evidence was not introduced into court *The fact that Christie was discovered a serial killer would have impeached his evidence.
|
|
|
Post by ltdc on May 8, 2009 19:03:25 GMT -6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_EvansThis happened in Britain in the 50's. Timothy Evans was executed for the murder of his daughter, though during his trial the court heard evidence of the murder of his wife. The star witness against Evans was, John Christie, who almost certainly was responsible for the crime. He himself was later to be discovered responsible for a number of murders and was executed himself. One would doubt that these particular circumstances would have led Evans to the execution chamber in the USA in this era becuase of the following *The Death Penalty may not have been sought - DP was a mandatory punishment at the time of Evan's trial * Retardation issue, Evans was borderline mentally retarded *Many more appeal rights, som key exculpatory evidence was not introduced into court *The fact that Christie was discovered a serial killer would have impeached his evidence. he wasn't "wrongfully sentenced", he was "wrongfully convicted" it's a court issue/problem, deal with it there. don't blame DP
|
|
|
Post by belsogno on May 8, 2009 19:29:29 GMT -6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_EvansThis happened in Britain in the 50's. Timothy Evans was executed for the murder of his daughter, though during his trial the court heard evidence of the murder of his wife. The star witness against Evans was, John Christie, who almost certainly was responsible for the crime. He himself was later to be discovered responsible for a number of murders and was executed himself. One would doubt that these particular circumstances would have led Evans to the execution chamber in the USA in this era becuase of the following *The Death Penalty may not have been sought - DP was a mandatory punishment at the time of Evan's trial * Retardation issue, Evans was borderline mentally retarded *Many more appeal rights, som key exculpatory evidence was not introduced into court *The fact that Christie was discovered a serial killer would have impeached his evidence. he wasn't "wrongfully sentenced", he was "wrongfully convicted" it's a court issue/problem, deal with it there. don't blame DP You are forgetting a little thing. DP can't be repaired. So when wrongful conviction occurs and the inmate gets executed you can't go back. It's an issue involving DP. Try again
|
|
|
Post by ltdc on May 8, 2009 20:00:08 GMT -6
he wasn't "wrongfully sentenced", he was "wrongfully convicted" it's a court issue/problem, deal with it there. don't blame DP You are forgetting a little thing. DP can't be repaired. So when wrongful conviction occurs and the inmate gets executed you can't go back. It's an issue involving DP. Try again bingo!! hook, line and sinker on the first cast. ;D and when he gets wrongfully convicted and sentenced to LWOP and DIES in prison, whether by old age or intent or accident, that then makes LWOP the fault?? how about if he is sentenced to two years and dies in one? gee, maybe we shouldn't try, convict and sentence anyone juuust in case. no, if there is a problem, and sometimes there is, it is in the imvestigation, arrest, prosecution, and court arena. fix it there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2009 4:02:54 GMT -6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_EvansThis happened in Britain in the 50's. Timothy Evans was executed for the murder of his daughter, though during his trial the court heard evidence of the murder of his wife. The star witness against Evans was, John Christie, who almost certainly was responsible for the crime. He himself was later to be discovered responsible for a number of murders and was executed himself. One would doubt that these particular circumstances would have led Evans to the execution chamber in the USA in this era becuase of the following *The Death Penalty may not have been sought - DP was a mandatory punishment at the time of Evan's trial * Retardation issue, Evans was borderline mentally retarded *Many more appeal rights, som key exculpatory evidence was not introduced into court *The fact that Christie was discovered a serial killer would have impeached his evidence. Hmm... this is one of those arguments that falls over at the first hurdle. Evans was executed in 1950 just after being convicted of his wife's murder. Just three years later (after convicting the wrong person) they find another person i.e. Christie may was responsible. Given the fact that the average time on death row is around 10 to 12 years then by todays standards Evans would have been set free, probably with a nice payout and Christie would have gone to the bone yard in his place. Yes? So this is not the single most important case against the death penalty then is it? In fact it shows quite the opposite. And I think that you have clumsily sidestepped the sophistication of investigation standards in todays world e.g. DNA. As we would say in Australia - try again sunshine!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2009 18:55:58 GMT -6
Sounda, There are only 2 levels of appeal after a murder conviction, that being the court of criminal appeal and the High Court of Australia. It only takes a couple of years to get through those courts and then the state is free to execute. I would imagine that we wouldn't change our structure, and this is the same with the British. The fact that our American friends takes years to execute is a unique by product of their own legal system. AN acquittal by a court of criminal appeal does not guarantee you a nice payout. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_EvansThis happened in Britain in the 50's. Timothy Evans was executed for the murder of his daughter, though during his trial the court heard evidence of the murder of his wife. The star witness against Evans was, John Christie, who almost certainly was responsible for the crime. He himself was later to be discovered responsible for a number of murders and was executed himself. One would doubt that these particular circumstances would have led Evans to the execution chamber in the USA in this era becuase of the following *The Death Penalty may not have been sought - DP was a mandatory punishment at the time of Evan's trial * Retardation issue, Evans was borderline mentally retarded *Many more appeal rights, som key exculpatory evidence was not introduced into court *The fact that Christie was discovered a serial killer would have impeached his evidence. Hmm... this is one of those arguments that falls over at the first hurdle. Evans was executed in 1950 just after being convicted of his wife's murder. Just three years later (after convicting the wrong person) they find another person i.e. Christie may was responsible. Given the fact that the average time on death row is around 10 to 12 years then by todays standards Evans would have been set free, probably with a nice payout and Christie would have gone to the bone yard in his place. Yes? So this is not the single most important case against the death penalty then is it? In fact it shows quite the opposite. And I think that you have clumsily sidestepped the sophistication of investigation standards in todays world e.g. DNA. As we would say in Australia - try again sunshine!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2009 19:22:15 GMT -6
Hi cyclone Actually in Australian jurisdictions (states) there are 4 levels of appeal. A murder trial will begin in the Supreme Court. The first level of any appeal will go before 3 justices of the Supreme Court. The second level of appeal will go before the full court of the (5 justices) Supreme Court. The third level of appeal can be before 3 justices of the High Court. The fourth level of appeal can be before the full court (5 justices) of the High Court. Invariably one has to seek 'leave to appeal' to the full courts and this can take a considerable period of time. There are also complex legal mechanisms that impact the time frames and jurisdictions which are as varied as the cases that present themselves. I also suspect that if the DP were adopted that the Federal Government would also implement legislative measures that would 'codify' legal procedural practices. In effect I think we would more than likely end up with a legal framework not too dissimilar to the US. Essentially I agree with your point re the difference between our court system and the US although it's not quite as 'cut and dried' as one would think. And yes you're quite right re the payout issues as there is no guarantee of any compensation. Although Andrew Mallard was recently offered 3 million for his wrongful murder conviction in Western Australia. His lawyers are pushing for 7.5 million. Sounda, There are only 2 levels of appeal after a murder conviction, that being the court of criminal appeal and the High Court of Australia. It only takes a couple of years to get through those courts and then the state is free to execute. I would imagine that we wouldn't change our structure, and this is the same with the British. The fact that our American friends takes years to execute is a unique by product of their own legal system. AN acquittal by a court of criminal appeal does not guarantee you a nice payout. Hmm... this is one of those arguments that falls over at the first hurdle. Evans was executed in 1950 just after being convicted of his wife's murder. Just three years later (after convicting the wrong person) they find another person i.e. Christie may was responsible. Given the fact that the average time on death row is around 10 to 12 years then by todays standards Evans would have been set free, probably with a nice payout and Christie would have gone to the bone yard in his place. Yes? So this is not the single most important case against the death penalty then is it? In fact it shows quite the opposite. And I think that you have clumsily sidestepped the sophistication of investigation standards in todays world e.g. DNA. As we would say in Australia - try again sunshine!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 7:58:57 GMT -6
Hi cyclone Actually in Australian jurisdictions (states) there are 4 levels of appeal. A murder trial will begin in the Supreme Court. The first level of any appeal will go before 3 justices of the Supreme Court. The second level of appeal will go before the full court of the (5 justices) Supreme Court. The third level of appeal can be before 3 justices of the High Court. The fourth level of appeal can be before the full court (5 justices) of the High Court. Invariably one has to seek 'leave to appeal' to the full courts and this can take a considerable period of time. There are also complex legal mechanisms that impact the time frames and jurisdictions which are as varied as the cases that present themselves. I also suspect that if the DP were adopted that the Federal Government would also implement legislative measures that would 'codify' legal procedural practices. In effect I think we would more than likely end up with a legal framework not too dissimilar to the US. Essentially I agree with your point re the difference between our court system and the US although it's not quite as 'cut and dried' as one would think. And yes you're quite right re the payout issues as there is no guarantee of any compensation. Although Andrew Mallard was recently offered 3 million for his wrongful murder conviction in Western Australia. His lawyers are pushing for 7.5 million. Sounda, There are only 2 levels of appeal after a murder conviction, that being the court of criminal appeal and the High Court of Australia. It only takes a couple of years to get through those courts and then the state is free to execute. I would imagine that we wouldn't change our structure, and this is the same with the British. The fact that our American friends takes years to execute is a unique by product of their own legal system. AN acquittal by a court of criminal appeal does not guarantee you a nice payout. I think you are using semantics, as I understand it Criminal Appeals from a single judge in the supreme court would normally go to a 3 judge panel in the Court of Criminal Appeal, unless it involved and important issues, and then the CJ may direct it to go to a 5 judge panel. I do agree there are a great number of delays within the Australian court system, however, it would be unheard of for a criminal within the Australian system to take a decade to finish their appeals. The only exception would be an exceptional appeal against their conviction. It generally takes a decade to execute an inmate. I doubt they would bring in special rules for capital cases, oh someone facing the death penalty might get more legal aid, from better and more experienced lawyers but that is about it. They will not be introducing signifigant constitutional changes to make the national constitution to the USA. The Federal Govt has little power over how a state tries any criminal defendant.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 10, 2009 9:24:13 GMT -6
Hi cyclone Actually in Australian jurisdictions (states) there are 4 levels of appeal. A murder trial will begin in the Supreme Court. The first level of any appeal will go before 3 justices of the Supreme Court. The second level of appeal will go before the full court of the (5 justices) Supreme Court. The third level of appeal can be before 3 justices of the High Court. The fourth level of appeal can be before the full court (5 justices) of the High Court. Invariably one has to seek 'leave to appeal' to the full courts and this can take a considerable period of time. There are also complex legal mechanisms that impact the time frames and jurisdictions which are as varied as the cases that present themselves. I also suspect that if the DP were adopted that the Federal Government would also implement legislative measures that would 'codify' legal procedural practices. In effect I think we would more than likely end up with a legal framework not too dissimilar to the US. Essentially I agree with your point re the difference between our court system and the US although it's not quite as 'cut and dried' as one would think. And yes you're quite right re the payout issues as there is no guarantee of any compensation. Although Andrew Mallard was recently offered 3 million for his wrongful murder conviction in Western Australia. His lawyers are pushing for 7.5 million. Sounda, There are only 2 levels of appeal after a murder conviction, that being the court of criminal appeal and the High Court of Australia. It only takes a couple of years to get through those courts and then the state is free to execute. I would imagine that we wouldn't change our structure, and this is the same with the British. The fact that our American friends takes years to execute is a unique by product of their own legal system. AN acquittal by a court of criminal appeal does not guarantee you a nice payout. Andrew Mallard deserves way more than 3 million. He was convicted because of police corruption and cover up, its an utter disgrace. being from Perth, i remember when he was arrested, people were out for blood, then now, years later, people apologise, sorry but thats just not enough. Heads should role big time!!! But when it comes to the death penalty, i don't think any anti will argue that the death penalty is only ever wrong if an innocent is executed. Its wrong regardless, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2009 14:10:47 GMT -6
We have moved a long way from the 50s. Certainly in this day and age, these issues would not have happened and he would not have been executed. This has been raised before, but we still have the DP. I think that the issues won't happen again.
|
|
|
Post by Lotus Flower on May 10, 2009 14:49:10 GMT -6
This may have been a strong case against the DP in the 50s but technology and rules of evidence have come quite far in 2009. You can't use this as a valid example for the dp as it stands today.
|
|
|
Post by Potassium_Pixie on May 10, 2009 14:55:02 GMT -6
But it does have a lot of influence as most states are running scared.
|
|