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Post by EthanK on Dec 2, 2008 23:49:20 GMT -6
I'm doing a research paper on Capital Punishment for my expository writing class (I'm arguing against it). I'm sure you've been asked this a million times but I've looked around and couldn't find it, I'd like to hear a rebuttal from the opposite point of view.
One of my main premises is that you can never be sure the accused are guilty. A good handful people are taken off death row because their innocence is proven. If you argue that people executed have not ever been wrongfully convicted, this is because investigation of the cases generally stops after they are convicted. However small the chance, DNA evidence can be planted. Not to mention the racism and bigotry that is prevalent in the law system.
I'd also like to know your response to this quote;
"It is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" -Ben Franklin
My condolences to anyone who've lost loved ones as a result of murderers. I just don't think it's right to counter violence with violence, especially when the innocent are at risk to be killed.
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Post by ltdc on Dec 3, 2008 11:15:58 GMT -6
I'm doing a research paper on Capital Punishment for my expository writing class (I'm arguing against it). I'm sure you've been asked this a million times but I've looked around and couldn't find it, I'd like to hear a rebuttal from the opposite point of view. One of my main premises is that you can never be sure the accused are guilty. A good handful people are taken off death row because their innocence is proven. If you argue that people executed have not ever been wrongfully convicted, this is because investigation of the cases generally stops after they are convicted. However small the chance, DNA evidence can be planted. Not to mention the racism and bigotry that is prevalent in the law system. I'd also like to know your response to this quote; "It is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" -Ben Franklin My condolences to anyone who've lost loved ones as a result of murderers. I just don't think it's right to counter violence with violence, especially when the innocent are at risk to be killed. #1: "you can never be sure the accused are guilty" yes, we can. but it is not required, beyond a reasonable doubt is required. stay within the lines. #2: people are not as a rule "wrongfully sentenced" if anything the may be "wrongfully convicted" it's not a death penalty issue, it's a "process" issue. deal with it there. #3: "racism and bigotry....is prevelant in the law system" no, it's not. it's just any easy excuse. #4: ole' Ben said some good things, but this one won't work. no system of law can cover this nut, and without law there is no order. #5: putting someone to sleep is not violent. but it is 100% effective
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Post by josephdphillips on Dec 3, 2008 11:25:17 GMT -6
One of my main premises is that you can never be sure the accused are guilty. A good handful people are taken off death row because their innocence is proven. If you argue that people executed have not ever been wrongfully convicted, this is because investigation of the cases generally stops after they are convicted. However small the chance, DNA evidence can be planted. Not to mention the racism and bigotry that is prevalent in the law system. I am compelled to ask why you think justice has to be perfect before we execute a convict. I'd also like to know your response to this quote; "It is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" -Ben Franklin Ben Franklin was wrong. My condolences to anyone who've lost loved ones as a result of murderers. I just don't think it's right to counter violence with violence, especially when the innocent are at risk to be killed. What fairy tale informs you that innocents aren't always at such risk? The government kills thousands of innocents without trial every year -- by refusing to rebuild dangerous infrastructure or by giving passing grades to tainted meat -- the list is endless. Why are you insisting that the government never wrongfully imprison or execute someone?
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Post by Geoff on Dec 3, 2008 14:15:34 GMT -6
there is no innocent on death row. Judges fear being called racist which is why mostly white males are on death row. the world would be better if we eliminated the choice of a stay of execution. And if you think that the reason people are taken off of death row is because they are innocent you are sadly mistaken it is because they were not guilty of Murder. And then theres the large amount of guilty taken off of death row because they could afford a lawyer that didnt think twisting ams and victimizing murders was wrong
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Post by Geoff on Dec 3, 2008 14:29:27 GMT -6
I agree with Itbc we use racism as an excuse but We execute more whites than the rest of the races pu together there should be loads of every race on death row and the fact that there are not says a horrible thing about america. I love all races( sorry i only like white girls Its the way i was raised ) we need to execute every murderer without hesitation. No more 10 year waits we should reduce it to 60 days after guilty verdict so that there is no twisting arms no cries of racism no bribing, lies, hypocracy and just go back to what it is rooted in JUSTICE! The lord instited capital punishment,Jesus said follow tthe law But stay rooted in him so we should do as the lord says or as your own moral compass says. No one with a heart can say a murderer or rapist with a life sentene is giving the victems justic the only justice for these crimes is the DEATH OF HE/SHE THAT BROKE THESE TWO LAWS!
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Post by EthanK on Dec 3, 2008 16:17:17 GMT -6
I agree with Itbc we use racism as an excuse but We execute more whites than the rest of the races pu together there should be loads of every race on death row and the fact that there are not says a horrible thing about america. I love all races( sorry i only like white girls Its the way i was raised ) we need to execute every murderer without hesitation. No more 10 year waits we should reduce it to 60 days after guilty verdict so that there is no twisting arms no cries of racism no bribing, lies, hypocracy and just go back to what it is rooted in JUSTICE! The lord instited capital punishment,Jesus said follow tthe law But stay rooted in him so we should do as the lord says or as your own moral compass says. No one with a heart can say a murderer or rapist with a life sentene is giving the victems justic the only justice for these crimes is the DEATH OF HE/SHE THAT BROKE THESE TWO LAWS! Whites make up 76% of the population, so statistically it would make sense that they are the most executed race en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_demographics_of_the_United_StatesJesus? Our lord? Please, have you ever heard of the free exercise and establishment clauses of the first amendment? I'd advise you to read, or have them explained to you. However, Itdc and josephdphilips; your posts were fairly helpful in letting me understand the other point of view. Thanks, now I've got a paper to write.
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Post by josephdphillips on Dec 3, 2008 16:28:05 GMT -6
your posts were fairly helpful in letting me understand the other point of view. You're welcome. I used to be an anti.
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Post by ltdc on Dec 3, 2008 17:39:55 GMT -6
However, Itdc and josephdphilips; your posts were fairly helpful in letting me understand the other point of view. Thanks, now I've got a paper to write. you're welcome, never even heard of an anti until I came here
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Post by Geoff on Dec 3, 2008 19:05:40 GMT -6
that was an old poll whites and minority groups are about even
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Post by Geoff on Dec 3, 2008 19:10:55 GMT -6
And about the "our lord" It says on our money and in our pledge IN GOD WE TRUST
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Post by Geoff on Dec 3, 2008 19:18:06 GMT -6
I am also writing a report so if anyone has some interesting statistics or such it would help the report is Fifteen pages long typed
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Post by Matt on Dec 3, 2008 22:45:32 GMT -6
And about the "our lord" It says on our money and in our pledge IN GOD WE TRUST ....ALL OTHERS MUST PAY CASH...
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Post by lazy on Dec 4, 2008 10:36:54 GMT -6
The lord instited capital punishment,Jesus said follow tthe law But stay rooted in him so we should do as the lord says or as your own moral compass says. Jesus? Our lord? Please, have you ever heard of the free exercise and establishment clauses of the first amendment? I'd advise you to read, or have them explained to you. What's your gripe? That we are a nation of laws? That the death penalty has been recognized as lawful since the beginning of recorded history? That the Bible said it first? Ever hear of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment? I advise you to read it or have someone explain it to you. Ever hear of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment? The courts have never ruled that capital punishment per se violates the clause and they never will. I advise you to read it and/or have someone explain it to you.
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Post by lazy on Dec 4, 2008 10:41:39 GMT -6
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Post by Felix2 on Dec 4, 2008 10:43:40 GMT -6
Jesus? Our lord? Please, have you ever heard of the free exercise and establishment clauses of the first amendment? I'd advise you to read, or have them explained to you. What's your gripe? That we are a nation of laws? That the death penalty has been recognized as lawful since the beginning of recorded history? That the Bible said it first? Ever hear of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment? I advise you to read it or have someone explain it to you. Ever hear of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment? The courts have never ruled that capital punishment per se violates the clause and they never will. I advise you to read it and/or have someone explain it to you. Slavery used to be common place also but I dont suppose you support that?
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Post by EthanK on Dec 4, 2008 16:44:10 GMT -6
Jesus? Our lord? Please, have you ever heard of the free exercise and establishment clauses of the first amendment? I'd advise you to read, or have them explained to you. What's your gripe? That we are a nation of laws? That the death penalty has been recognized as lawful since the beginning of recorded history? That the Bible said it first? Ever hear of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment? I advise you to read it or have someone explain it to you. Ever hear of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment? The courts have never ruled that capital punishment per se violates the clause and they never will. I advise you to read it and/or have someone explain it to you. The courts never ruled capital punishment as cruel and unusual? YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR! -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_v._Georgia Nice point Felix, I didn't think of that.
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Post by lazy on Dec 4, 2008 23:10:48 GMT -6
What's your gripe? That we are a nation of laws? That the death penalty has been recognized as lawful since the beginning of recorded history? That the Bible said it first? Ever hear of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment? I advise you to read it or have someone explain it to you. Ever hear of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment? The courts have never ruled that capital punishment per se violates the clause and they never will. I advise you to read it and/or have someone explain it to you. The courts never ruled capital punishment as cruel and unusual? YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY SIR! -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furman_v._Georgia Yawn. Instead of trying to be a smart ass, try to learn something. In Furman, et al, the USSC ruled that the DP, as administered at the time, i.e., in a capricious and discriminatory manner, violated the 8th Amendment. However, as I previously posted the Court did not rule that capital punishment “per se” violates the clause against cruel and unusual punishment. I advise you to read the entire Furman case and ask someone to explain it to you. Nice point Felix, I didn't think of that. Nice point? No, more like ignorance and side stepping the issue. The chances of the states ratifying a constitutional amendment banning capital punishment is zero to none. And the courts have consistently ruled that capital punishment per se is constitutional.
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mst3k4evur
Inactive
Member of the Month - 4/09
Ameeerrrrrricaaa, F**k Yah!
Posts: 3,701
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Post by mst3k4evur on Dec 5, 2008 0:09:39 GMT -6
I am also writing a report so if anyone has some interesting statistics or such it would help the report is Fifteen pages long typed What kind of stats? I would look at the homicide rates in the US and show how they went from 6.2 to 8.8 during the 1967-1977 moratorium and from 8.2 to 5.6 during the 1995-2005 period when 2/3 of the 1100+ executions in this country took place. www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm
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Post by Donnie on Dec 5, 2008 21:01:14 GMT -6
Whites make up 76% of the population, so statistically it would make sense that they are the most executed race Only if racism, instead of unlawful acts, were the basis for execution.
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