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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 2:53:05 GMT -6
well ive got a big debate coming up soon and i was wondering if you guys can help me out...and the debate is coming up this tuesday...im in need of help...
i just need strong statements...and my debate has to be atleast 5 mins long...we can't use notes when we present but we can use notecards for quotes...i just need help to defend my stance...i need like your guy's opinions aswell as some sources to help me out...
and this is worth 40% of my grade...
i chose that im for the death penalty because i believe mass murders/killers whatever deserves to die...for instance if someone killed your whole family wouldn't you kill him yourself? and plus a simple apology cant fix your whole family...thats just plain stupid...
i say they deserve what they deserve...im only for the death penalty for those who commited really serious crimes like mass murders, multi murders...basically anything to do with murder...also if we leave them in jail thats just wasting our tax paying money!...they also live better lives then the homeless...
im just for it for the justice not the revenge factor because people ten d to use the death penalty for revenge but actually its for justice...even the bible advocates the death penalty if i recall...like the "eye for an eye tooth for a tooth"...
i also believe that if we enforce the death penalty more often, it would minimize crimes rates...also people saying that it costs more to execute a person can be wrong since its about $44,000 to keep a prisoner in jail...think about thousands and thousands of more prisoners...which basically exceeds the million range...
also its one less problem if you consider to go with the death penalty...
iono this is all i gotta say from my head...
is there anything else i should talk about? make it more stronger? cuz i will be going against someone who will be against the death penalty...
thanks for your time...
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Post by beej76 on Feb 12, 2007 6:18:04 GMT -6
well ive got a big debate coming up soon and i was wondering if you guys can help me out...and the debate is coming up this tuesday...im in need of help... i just need strong statements...and my debate has to be atleast 5 mins long...we can't use notes when we present but we can use notecards for quotes...i just need help to defend my stance...i need like your guy's opinions aswell as some sources to help me out... and this is worth 40% of my grade... i chose that im for the death penalty because i believe mass murders/killers whatever deserves to die...for instance if someone killed your whole family wouldn't you kill him yourself? and plus a simple apology cant fix your whole family...thats just plain stupid... i say they deserve what they deserve...im only for the death penalty for those who commited really serious crimes like mass murders, multi murders...basically anything to do with murder...also if we leave them in jail thats just wasting our tax paying money!...they also live better lives then the homeless... im just for it for the justice not the revenge factor because people ten d to use the death penalty for revenge but actually its for justice...even the bible advocates the death penalty if i recall...like the "eye for an eye tooth for a tooth"... i also believe that if we enforce the death penalty more often, it would minimize crimes rates...also people saying that it costs more to execute a person can be wrong since its about $44,000 to keep a prisoner in jail...think about thousands and thousands of more prisoners...which basically exceeds the million range... also its one less problem if you consider to go with the death penalty... iono this is all i gotta say from my head... is there anything else i should talk about? make it more stronger? cuz i will be going against someone who will be against the death penalty... thanks for your time... Good luck on your debate - hope you do well. I'm an anti, so I don't have much help for you. What typically works though, is to take logic and reasoning out of it. The one trap you've laid for yourself is that the DP doesn't deter murder (so bringing it up might leave you exposed), and there's quite a few studies that show the DP costs taxpayers more than life in prison (again, you might be exposed there). I would pick a heart-wrenching story of a middle aged man killing a small child - make it as graphic as you can for your class - have lots of dramatic pauses - and then find the Justice Scalia quote about how some people simply demand executing. You'll get bonus points for quoting from the supreme court. The key for the pro side is to move from logic and into passion. |
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Post by Californian on Feb 12, 2007 8:50:23 GMT -6
Interesting. I'd say just the opposite.
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Post by ltdc on Feb 12, 2007 10:19:57 GMT -6
well ive got a big debate coming up soon and i was wondering if you guys can help me out...and the debate is coming up this tuesday...im in need of help... i just need strong statements...and my debate has to be atleast 5 mins long...we can't use notes when we present but we can use notecards for quotes...i just need help to defend my stance...i need like your guy's opinions aswell as some sources to help me out... and this is worth 40% of my grade... i chose that im for the death penalty because i believe mass murders/killers whatever deserves to die...for instance if someone killed your whole family wouldn't you kill him yourself? and plus a simple apology cant fix your whole family...thats just plain stupid... i say they deserve what they deserve...im only for the death penalty for those who commited really serious crimes like mass murders, multi murders...basically anything to do with murder...also if we leave them in jail thats just wasting our tax paying money!...they also live better lives then the homeless... im just for it for the justice not the revenge factor because people ten d to use the death penalty for revenge but actually its for justice...even the bible advocates the death penalty if i recall...like the "eye for an eye tooth for a tooth"... i also believe that if we enforce the death penalty more often, it would minimize crimes rates...also people saying that it costs more to execute a person can be wrong since its about $44,000 to keep a prisoner in jail...think about thousands and thousands of more prisoners...which basically exceeds the million range... also its one less problem if you consider to go with the death penalty... iono this is all i gotta say from my head... is there anything else i should talk about? make it more stronger? cuz i will be going against someone who will be against the death penalty... thanks for your time... keep it simple amd to the point, stay away from being baited into side trips such as cost, deterence of others, crime rates and race issues. they are not really DP issues, mostly court issues stay with the simple and un-arguable point, go to the "once a murderer...." sectionof this web site. if you can't take notes then start memorizing some names. first, those who killed, did time, got out or escaped and killed again. number of victims is good here second, name those who have been executed and killed again. number of victims would be good here also then stay with it for 5 minutes |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2007 10:23:10 GMT -6
well ive got a big debate coming up soon and i was wondering if you guys can help me out...and the debate is coming up this tuesday...im in need of help... i just need strong statements...and my debate has to be atleast 5 mins long...we can't use notes when we present but we can use notecards for quotes...i just need help to defend my stance...i need like your guy's opinions aswell as some sources to help me out... and this is worth 40% of my grade... i chose that im for the death penalty because i believe mass murders/killers whatever deserves to die...for instance if someone killed your whole family wouldn't you kill him yourself? and plus a simple apology cant fix your whole family...thats just plain stupid... i say they deserve what they deserve...im only for the death penalty for those who commited really serious crimes like mass murders, multi murders...basically anything to do with murder...also if we leave them in jail thats just wasting our tax paying money!...they also live better lives then the homeless... im just for it for the justice not the revenge factor because people ten d to use the death penalty for revenge but actually its for justice...even the bible advocates the death penalty if i recall...like the "eye for an eye tooth for a tooth"... i also believe that if we enforce the death penalty more often, it would minimize crimes rates...also people saying that it costs more to execute a person can be wrong since its about $44,000 to keep a prisoner in jail...think about thousands and thousands of more prisoners...which basically exceeds the million range... also its one less problem if you consider to go with the death penalty... iono this is all i gotta say from my head... is there anything else i should talk about? make it more stronger? cuz i will be going against someone who will be against the death penalty... thanks for your time... 1. There are lots of examples of murderers who were not executed after the first murder (and then murdered again) here www.prodeathpenalty.com/repeat_murder.htmor just click on "Once a Murderer" above 2. There are papers about deterrence here www.prodeathpenalty.com/deterrence.htm 3. Click on Articles of Interest above or at this link www.prodeathpenalty.com/articles.htmand many lead-in quotes for the articles are shown there. Some are very good IMO. Hope this helps! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2007 10:25:11 GMT -6
ltdc that is good advice
you posted while I was already typing too. ;D
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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 11:25:06 GMT -6
thanks for the help guys  oh yeah how should i start off? like ask a question first cuz im not really experienced with this debate/speech thingy... also telling a story that is graphic would help right? what would i say after telling the graphic story? and i talk about how killers go out and kill again? and talk about the number of people that person has killed?...also remembering the killers name? last thing...how would i end my whole speech? like to conclude all my thoughts? i just need something strong to end...maybe use a quote? the hard part is going to answer all the questions against me...anybody know what the people are most likely going to go against me especially my teacher? i wanna be prepared btw is the graphic story going to be appropriate? because on our paper it says "student will utilize appropriate logical, ethical, and/or emotional appeals, as well as appropriate language, to achieve the desired end - providing a substantive, convincing argument on behalf of their stance"thanks again guys.... |
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Post by ltdc on Feb 12, 2007 12:02:22 GMT -6
thanks for the help guys oh yeah how should i start off? like ask a question first cuz im not really experienced with this debate/speech thingy... also telling a story that is graphic would help right? what would i say after telling the graphic story? and i talk about how killers go out and kill again? and talk about the number of people that person has killed?...also remembering the killers name? last thing...how would i end my whole speech? like to conclude all my thoughts? i just need something strong to end...maybe use a quote? the hard part is going to answer all the questions against me...anybody know what the people are most likely going to go against me especially my teacher? i wanna be prepared btw is the graphic story going to be appropriate? because on our paper it says "student will utilize appropriate logical, ethical, and/or emotional appeals, as well as appropriate language, to achieve the desired end - providing a substantive, convincing argument on behalf of their stance"thanks again guys.... well, you'll have to decide that because although I suggested my way of doing things, debate rules and teachers may not allow that, I don't know. questions or no questions I'd stay with the number of people killed by repeat killers post incarceration and the number of people killed by post execution killers, it'll drive them nuts |
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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 12:13:16 GMT -6
what do you mean by number of people killed by post execution killers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2007 13:00:23 GMT -6
that would be zero
no more, ever again, once they are executed
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Post by ltdc on Feb 12, 2007 13:51:37 GMT -6
what do you mean by number of people killed by post execution killers? just what JBS said that is why telling the number of victims from both groups is so important (pm me if I'm still not clear here) |
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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 19:52:12 GMT -6
well i just got some stuff down...but i just don't know how to start it...i don't know what to say first...
basically i got a lot of quotes...and i guess imma explain everything as well as using the quotes...
when i start my speech its suppose to start with my opinion first or what? or do i present the facts then go into passion by using a graphic story?
man all this is making me stress on what and how to do my speech...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2007 20:04:17 GMT -6
EJ, How about? Murder has become acceptable. We use it as entertainment. There are penapal sites that show support and even love for the murderer. Murder has become acceptable.
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Post by Rev. Agave on Feb 12, 2007 20:12:15 GMT -6
Just remember to say Kill'em All. For instance, when your teacher or opponent brings up a murder case where a guy got the DP for killing one man in a robbery whereas another guy got life for raping and murdering four co-eds, quickly retort by asserting that you would have juiced them both if you had your way.
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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 20:47:36 GMT -6
what would be some un-arguable points?
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Post by Charlene on Feb 12, 2007 21:01:27 GMT -6
I was in a class today that had an interesting methodology for making a presentation. Perhaps this will help you lay things out.
They said you have 90 seconds of the opening of your presentation in which to capture the attention of your audience.
The first three items should be about the audience; things the audience readily recognizes, sits there and nods their heads about.
1. Explain the situation - whatever the main track of your presentation is.
2. Explain the complications that may have arisen in the situation
3. What is the implication? Explain the problems this situation causes.
The next item can be about yourself, "I believe" or "in my opinion"
4. State your position
5. Action: ask the audience to do something, to take action
6. Explain what benefits will result from the action you have asked them to take.
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Post by EJ on Feb 12, 2007 21:09:59 GMT -6
I was in a class today that had an interesting methodology for making a presentation. Perhaps this will help you lay things out. They said you have 90 seconds of the opening of your presentation in which to capture the attention of your audience. The first three items should be about the audience; things the audience readily recognizes, sits there and nods their heads about. 1. Explain the situation - whatever the main track of your presentation is. 2. Explain the complications that may have arisen in the situation 3. What is the implication? Explain the problems this situation causes. The next item can be about yourself, "I believe" or "in my opinion" 4. State your position 5. Action: ask the audience to do something, to take action 6. Explain what benefits will result from the action you have asked them to take. can you explain 5 and 6 i don't really get that part...like what do you mean to ask the audience to do something? and benefits? anyways thanks Charlene this will help me layout my speech... |
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Post by ltdc on Feb 13, 2007 12:27:42 GMT -6
well i just got some stuff down...but i just don't know how to start it...i don't know what to say first... basically i got a lot of quotes...and i guess imma explain everything as well as using the quotes... when i start my speech its suppose to start with my opinion first or what? or do i present the facts then go into passion by using a graphic story? man all this is making me stress on what and how to do my speech... I teach some leo classes at the university involving the death penalty. I ALWAYS make the class put the face of a loved one on the young victims body as I explain the crime scene. the reason is if you don't make the murder victim personal, then they just become another, acceptable, far off number. |
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Post by Charlene on Feb 13, 2007 15:08:04 GMT -6
I was in a class today that had an interesting methodology for making a presentation. Perhaps this will help you lay things out. They said you have 90 seconds of the opening of your presentation in which to capture the attention of your audience. The first three items should be about the audience; things the audience readily recognizes, sits there and nods their heads about. 1. Explain the situation - whatever the main track of your presentation is. 2. Explain the complications that may have arisen in the situation 3. What is the implication? Explain the problems this situation causes. The next item can be about yourself, "I believe" or "in my opinion" 4. State your position 5. Action: ask the audience to do something, to take action 6. Explain what benefits will result from the action you have asked them to take. can you explain 5 and 6 i don't really get that part...like what do you mean to ask the audience to do something? and benefits? anyways thanks Charlene this will help me layout my speech... I think in this case, for number 5 you would state something like, if you agree with me, "Please contact your legislators and let them know you support capital punishment." For number 6, with a statement like the above, your statement would be something along the lines of, "It is said that one phone call to a legislator is viewed as representing the opinions of 10 constituents. If you value the lives of innocent victims more than the lives of the people who killed them, please contact your legislator." Also, for a true case that has had a lot of impact in a lot of debates and presentations, click on my signature below. You can print the case history, pass it out and then discuss it as part of your opening statement. |
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Post by Ariel on Feb 13, 2007 15:24:33 GMT -6
As a pro, and someone who was pretty good at debate at university, I would start off by saying something along these lines.
Every year thousands of people are deliberately murdered. If their killers are caught, and they get executed, it is certain that they will never kill again. It is also certain that the victims feel more of a sense of closure but above all it is morally just that execution should be the penalty for murder.
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Post by EJ on Feb 13, 2007 17:29:50 GMT -6
thanks again guys  man today i didn't get to do my speech/debate because only two people went up and time ran out... anyways i have my outline done...can you guys critique it so i can make it better for tomorrow's continuation on the debate... Outline
I. Death Penalty
a) What is the Death Penalty?
1a.) History
b) What are the problems with the Death Penalty?
1a.) the death penalty condemns the innocent to die
2b.) the death penalty takes life over another
3c.) the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment.
II. Pro Death Penalty
a) Why am I for the Death Penalty?
1a.) Need to be used more often
2b.) creates a safer society
3c.) Justice served
b) Who else advocates the death penalty?
1a.) Bible Advocates the Death Penalty
c) Once a murderer always murderer
1a.) explain how killers go to prison and come out killing again.
-using real life events
III. Conclusion About Death Penalty
a) Final thoughts about the death penalty
1a.) State facts how the death penalty lowered crime rates.
2b.) End with a meaningful quote.
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Post by Charlene on Feb 13, 2007 19:11:59 GMT -6
Change I, b. to "What are the perceived problems with the death penalty?" since you are planning to refute them.
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Post by EJ on Feb 13, 2007 19:30:22 GMT -6
^^ thanks for the correction
hmm anybody know where should i put the "graphic story" in my outline? also does anybody have true story[not too long enough to get the point across] about some little girl or boy getting murdered...so it can help me with my speech?
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Post by dave on Feb 13, 2007 21:23:30 GMT -6
www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htmScroll down and look at the ages of the victims. Click on the hyperlins for the facts of the crimes. The death of Lottie Margaret Rhodes, age 5, always moves me. She was asleep in her bed when the murderer broke the window, dragged her out over the broken glass, raped, strangled, and tossed on the roadside like she was a piece of trash. For good measure, her murderer ran her over with his car. Antis tend to lie about the facts: No innocent people have been executed since the dp was reinstated. No 140+ people have been exonerated. The poor are not denied legal representation. Etc. Roger Coleman is another one. He had done a home invasion of a woman and her 5 year old daughter. He was about to rape the woman when she and her daughter escaped. He bailed out pending trial and terrorized her and her daughter. He was sentenced to two years in prison, was released, and raped and murdered his sister in law. There was more than enough circumstantial evidence to convict him but the antis claimed he was innocent. There was a dna test and a lie detector test that both said he was guilty, still they screamed that he was innocent. He was executed and still ten years later they were yelling that he was innocent. They did another post mortem dna test and guest what? It proved for the umpteeth time he was the murderer. They should have stopped at the circumstantial evidence in that it was enough for any reasonable jury to have found him guilty. The antis were actually hoping that an innocent man had been executed. They were really disappointed when the last dna test proved he was a murderer.
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Post by EJ on Feb 13, 2007 22:35:40 GMT -6
hey dave! that really really helped a lot...oh man my speech is gonna so kick butt!!!
thanks beej76, Californian, ltdc, J.B.S., greggsmom , Agaveman , dave, lindamarshall, and Charlene for helping me out...i appreciate it
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Post by ltdc on Feb 14, 2007 13:12:46 GMT -6
don't forget to let us know how it came out
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Post by EJ on Feb 16, 2007 17:53:26 GMT -6
Hey guys well i finally decided to go up and do my speech today because i really wanted to go up...and i went after a classmate who was against the dp ...so yeah...i want up and told it...man i was nervous i was soo nervous i was stuttering a bit...but all in all i got my point across...my whole speech took 13 minutes and it could of been longer maybe around 20min because our limit was 5-7 mins...and i believed that 5-7mins were not enough... i was like soo into my speech that i forgot to read my notecards with the quotes...maybe like once or twice...but deng i skipped a lot of quotes... for some reason i kept on repeating that the dp is not for revenge but for justice...iono hopefully i have gotten a good grade on it... man the last part where the class asks you questions...i think i handled it pretty good but when my teacher asked me a question like she said "well since you have said that no innocent person have been executed how would you apply that 30-20 years ago when dna would be considered impalpable" and that question go me and had no answer to it... class mates asked me questions like "since you said that its for justice not for revenge...what would be your own opinion if you were the judge no body else..." haha and i said "they deserve to die"... anyways thanks for all the help guys that really helped a lot... be back in the near future  |
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Post by Donnie on Feb 18, 2007 14:05:19 GMT -6
i think i handled it pretty good but when my teacher asked me a question like she said "well since you have said that no innocent person have been executed how would you apply that 30-20 years ago when dna would be considered impalpable" and that question go me and had no answer to it... A reasonable response to that question would have been that it doesn't matter in the context of continuing to use the death penalty for murderers in the future. |
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Post by EJ on Feb 18, 2007 18:35:51 GMT -6
^ what do you mean? can you rephrase that...sorry
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Post by Donnie on Feb 18, 2007 20:55:17 GMT -6
^ what do you mean? can you rephrase that...sorry Debates or discussions about the use of the death penalty occur because there is a controversy about whether or not to continue to use it. One of the arguments against the future use of the DP is that someday a person innocent of murder may be executed. Claiming that such a person has been executed in the past is used as evidence that it could happen in the future. But if a person was executed 30 years ago without the use of DNA evidence, that has no bearing on the future use of the death penalty because in future cases DNA evidence can be used. It would be similar to me telling you not to drive a new car tomorrow because 30 years ago I knew somebody who died in a car accident because the car was not equipped with air bags. |
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