Released despite Life Without Parole?

[bgfield]

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

[Charlene]

There is no statistical evidence that I can find, but let me know if you do!!

However, we do have a web page with anecdotal evidence of LWOP issues here: www.prodeathpenalty.com/LWOP.htm

bgfield said:

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

[bgfield]

admin said:

There is no statistical evidence that I can find, but let me know if you do!!

However, we do have a web page with anecdotal evidence of LWOP issues here: www.prodeathpenalty.com/LWOP.htm

bgfield said:

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

Thanks - I saw that and I might just have to use one of those. I'm finding it's pretty difficult to use facts or statistic to prove what is a purely ethical and emotional debate. I'm gonna spend a bit more time looking for some stats I can use and if I don't find anything, resort to the anecdotal information on this site (looks like it'd cover just about all of my arguments!)

[Lisa]

bgfield said:

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

I don't know if these help but LWOP does not guarantee against the possibility of the following:

1. The inmate can go on to murder other inmates or prison employees while serving LWOP which is more likely in the general inmate population than from a DR cell block.

2. Escape.

3. A governor being elected in the future who might commute the sentence to a lesser one.

[Rev. Agave]

bgfield said:

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

I got nothing on statistics, but you might want to present the Anti side first so you can later refute it with Pro responses and finish strongly. Remember, the only good murderer is a dead murderer, and it's important to end your paper with a stentorian "NEXT!!"

[Jason]

In 1962, James Moore raped and strangled 14-year-old Pamela Moss. Her parents decided to spare Moore the death penalty on the condition that he be sentenced to life in prison without parole. Later on, thanks to a change in sentencing laws in 1982, James Moore is eligible for parole every two years!

If Pamela's parents knew that they couldn't trust the state, Moore could have been executed long ago and they could have put the whole horrible incident behind them forever. Instead they have a nightmare to deal with biannually. I'll bet not a day goes by that they don't kick themselves for being foolish enough to trust the liberal sham that is life imprisonment and rehabilitation. (According to the US Department of Justice, the average prison sentence served for murder is five years and eleven months.)

Putting a murderer away for life just isn't good enough. Laws change, so do parole boards, and people forget the past. Those are things that cause life imprisonment to weather away. As long as the murderer lives, there is always a chance, no matter how small, that he will strike again. And there are people who run the criminal justice system who are naive enough to allow him to repeat his crime.

Kenneth McDuff, for instance, was convicted of the 1966 shooting deaths of two boys and the vicious rape-strangulation of their 16-year-old female companion. A Fort Worth jury ruled that McDuff should die in the electric chair, a sentence commuted to life in prison in 1972 after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the death penalty as then imposed. In 1989, with Texas prisons overflowing and state officials under fire from the federal judiciary, McDuff was quietly turned loose on an unsuspecting citizenry.

Within days, a naked body of a woman turned up. Prostitute Sarafia Parker, 31, had been beaten, strangled and dumped in a field near Temple. McDuff's freedom in 1989 was interrupted briefly. Jailed after a minor racial incident, he slithered through the system and was out again in 1990.

In early 1991, McDuff enrolled at Texas State Technical College in Waco. Soon, Central Texas prostitutes began disappearing. One, Valencia Joshua, 22, was last seen alive Feb. 24, 1991. Her naked, decomposed body later was discovered in a shallow grave in woods behind the college. Another of the missing women, Regenia Moore, was last seen kicking and screaming in the cab of McDuff's pickup truck. During the Christmas holidays of 1991, Colleen Reed disappeared from an Austin car wash. Witnesses reported hearing a woman scream that night and seeing two men speeding away in a yellow or tan Thunderbird. Little more than two months later, on March 1, 1992, Melissa Northrup, pregnant with a third child, vanished from the Waco convenience store where she worked. McDuff's beige Thunderbird, broken down, was discovered a block from the store.

Fifty-seven days later, a fisherman found the young woman's nearly nude body floating in a gravel pit in Dallas County, 90 miles north of Waco. By then, McDuff was the target of a nationwide manhunt. Just days after Mrs. Northrup's funeral, McDuff was recognized on television's "America's Most Wanted'' and arrested May 4 in Kansas City.

In 1993, a Houston jury ordered him executed for the kidnap-slaying of 22-year-old Melissa Northrup, a Waco mother of two. In 1994, a Seguin jury assessed him the death penalty for the abduction-rape-murder of 28-year-old Colleen Reed, an Austin accountant. Pamplin's son Larry, the current sheriff of Falls County, appeared at McDuff's Houston trial for the 1992 abduction and murder of Melissa Northrup.

"Kenneth McDuff is absolutely the most vicious and savage individual I know,'' he told reporters. "He has absolutely no conscience, and I think he enjoys killing.''
If McDuff had been executed as scheduled, he said, "no telling how many lives would have been saved.''

[killerhater]

agaveman is right, all murderers should die slowly and painfully. as you can see from the post following his, they WILL murder again and again. i wish i could murder each and every one of the piece of shits! this system is pathetic and until a child of someone who can make a difference changes things there will be more and more people getting murdered and more murderers getting away with it.

[Lisa]

admin said:

There is no statistical evidence that I can find, but let me know if you do!!

However, we do have a web page with anecdotal evidence of LWOP issues here: www.prodeathpenalty.com/LWOP.htm

bgfield said:

Hi everyone,

In my English class, I have received an assignment to write a short essay establishing arguments on both sides of the issue, with stats supporting both (FYI, I'm very much pro-capital punishment

I've got my arguments down but one I'm having trouble finding statistical evidence for is the release of criminals despite having received life without parole. I was hoping there might be a statistic somewhere showing how many criminals were released for various reasons (other than, obviously, exoneration), but it doesn't seem to be the easiest thing to search for. Is anyone aware of an article or web page that examines cases such as this?

Charlene...are there cases in which LWOP inmates have escaped? Just curious. It seems like there have been but I can't pull any names from my lame brain right now. Who were the escapees (I believe there were six who fled together) from Virginia, I believe, who remained at large for almost a week before all were captured? Some were murderers but I can't remember if there was a LWOP sentence among them.

[beej76]

I think this is an excellent discussion. If juries don't want death for a murderer, I think we should be advocating that they just get out with no punishment at all. I mean, LWOP is AWFUL at protecting society, and face it, if they don't deserve death, they deserve to be hugged.

So down with LWOP! Send more people to be juiced, and let the rest free!






I don't get you pros - seems like you want the world to be a more dangerous place.

[Lisa]

beej76 said:

I think this is an excellent discussion. If juries don't want death for a murderer, I think we should be advocating that they just get out with no punishment at all. I mean, LWOP is AWFUL at protecting society, and face it, if they don't deserve death, they deserve to be hugged.

So down with LWOP! Send more people to be juiced, and let the rest free!






I don't get you pros - seems like you want the world to be a more dangerous place.

Let me put it this way for you. An executed murderer has never escaped, never murdered another inmate or prison employee, nor had his or her sentence commuted to a lesser one. I see it as one less murderer to worry about. Is the world safer? IMO, unquestionably, the answer is yes. Remember that the world also includes those who work and live in tight quarters with murderers.

[beej76]

pdp0143 said:

beej76 said:

I think this is an excellent discussion. If juries don't want death for a murderer, I think we should be advocating that they just get out with no punishment at all. I mean, LWOP is AWFUL at protecting society, and face it, if they don't deserve death, they deserve to be hugged.

So down with LWOP! Send more people to be juiced, and let the rest free!






I don't get you pros - seems like you want the world to be a more dangerous place.

Let me put it this way for you. An executed murderer has never escaped, never murdered another inmate or prison employee, nor had his or her sentence commuted to a lesser one. I see it as one less murderer to worry about. Is the world safer? IMO, unquestionably, the answer is yes. Remember that the world also includes those who work and live in tight quarters with murderers.

An executed murder...one of the few who reach the conclusion of their sentence. One can say the same thing about LWOP inmates. Until either reach the conclusion of their sentence though - who knows?

[Lisa]

beej76 said:

pdp0143 said:

Let me put it this way for you. An executed murderer has never escaped, never murdered another inmate or prison employee, nor had his or her sentence commuted to a lesser one. I see it as one less murderer to worry about. Is the world safer? IMO, unquestionably, the answer is yes. Remember that the world also includes those who work and live in tight quarters with murderers.

An executed murder...one of the few who reach the conclusion of their sentence. One can say the same thing about LWOP inmates. Until either reach the conclusion of their sentence though - who knows?

I agree, the appeals process is much too lengthy in some cases but based on what I've read in some of your other posts you support a no holds barred appeals marathon for DR inmates. Nonetheless, when a murderer is executed the world is a safer place because he is simply gone. He has become one less murderer to worry about because he no longer exists. No, one cannot say the same thing with LWOP inmates. As long as a murderer is breathing he is dangerous. The only alternative is true solitary confinement which has already been deemed "cruel and inhumane" by the USSC if the confinement exceeds a specific (I forget what it is) time frame. At one time in Texas, I believe it was 90 days but I wouldn't swear to that. LWOP in REAL solitary confinement is unrealistic as it would be almost impossible to implement for many reasons.

[beej76]

pdp0143 said:

beej76 said:

An executed murder...one of the few who reach the conclusion of their sentence. One can say the same thing about LWOP inmates. Until either reach the conclusion of their sentence though - who knows?

I agree, the appeals process is much too lengthy in some cases but based on what I've read in some of your other posts you support a no holds barred appeals marathon for DR inmates. Nonetheless, when a murderer is executed the world is a safer place because he is simply gone. He has become one less murderer to worry about because he no longer exists. No, one cannot say the same thing with LWOP inmates. As long as a murderer is breathing he is dangerous. The only alternative is true solitary confinement which has already been deemed "cruel and inhumane" by the USSC if the confinement exceeds a specific (I forget what it is) time frame. At one time in Texas, I believe it was 90 days but I wouldn't swear to that. LWOP in REAL solitary confinement is unrealistic as it would be almost impossible to implement for many reasons.

Why do you keep falling back into cliches on this subject - sit back and think for a second. You say that when a murderer is executed, the world is a safer place - but you would have to say the same thing about an LWOP prisoner dying. Both need to have their sentences run their course before you can say that. You can certainly say that about LWOP prisoners - if you get to jump to the conclusion of the sentence with your DP argument, jump to the conclusion with the LWOP argument.

And of course I support the full appeals process with the DP - what is it, 1 in 3 on DR end up being executed because so many cases are flubbed up. Yeah, bright idea to streamline that mess!

Who even cares about real, solitary confinement? Can't you achieve the goals of system by different means, or is solitary the only way to do it?

[Charlene]

pdp0143 said:

admin said:

There is no statistical evidence that I can find, but let me know if you do!!

However, we do have a web page with anecdotal evidence of LWOP issues here: www.prodeathpenalty.com/LWOP.htm

Charlene...are there cases in which LWOP inmates have escaped? Just curious. It seems like there have been but I can't pull any names from my lame brain right now. Who were the escapees (I believe there were six who fled together) from Virginia, I believe, who remained at large for almost a week before all were captured? Some were murderers but I can't remember if there was a LWOP sentence among them.

Yes, look at that page in the link above; there are LWOP escapes in the articles included there. The Virginia inmates were on death row.

[Lisa]

beej76 said:

pdp0143 said:

I agree, the appeals process is much too lengthy in some cases but based on what I've read in some of your other posts you support a no holds barred appeals marathon for DR inmates. Nonetheless, when a murderer is executed the world is a safer place because he is simply gone. He has become one less murderer to worry about because he no longer exists. No, one cannot say the same thing with LWOP inmates. As long as a murderer is breathing he is dangerous. The only alternative is true solitary confinement which has already been deemed "cruel and inhumane" by the USSC if the confinement exceeds a specific (I forget what it is) time frame. At one time in Texas, I believe it was 90 days but I wouldn't swear to that. LWOP in REAL solitary confinement is unrealistic as it would be almost impossible to implement for many reasons.

Why do you keep falling back into cliches on this subject - sit back and think for a second. You say that when a murderer is executed, the world is a safer place - but you would have to say the same thing about an LWOP prisoner dying. Both need to have their sentences run their course before you can say that. You can certainly say that about LWOP prisoners - if you get to jump to the conclusion of the sentence with your DP argument, jump to the conclusion with the LWOP argument.

And of course I support the full appeals process with the DP - what is it, 1 in 3 on DR end up being executed because so many cases are flubbed up. Yeah, bright idea to streamline that mess!

Who even cares about real, solitary confinement? Can't you achieve the goals of system by different means, or is solitary the only way to do it?

Well, of course, the world is a safer place when a LWOP inmate dies a natural death while incarcerated, too. The DP, however, makes the world a safer place at a faster pace. Many who are executed are still relatively young.......some still in their 20's.