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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2007 21:02:28 GMT -6
Hello, all!
I'm a very good high school debater with several connections on both sides of the DP debate. I know murderers, victims, friends of victims, friends of murderers, and regular people with views based off everything ranging from faith to cost. My time consuming activity (Debate) has brought me into contact with the DP debate many a time, but I've never just sat down and thought about what I believed (I've been conditioned out of that eons ago, now it's all about what I can win with). So, I have another few papers coming up on DP, and I've figured It's about time I make up my mind.
I'm very very tired of hearing arguments that sound suspiciously like catchy bumper stickers and logic that is dependant either on one tearful tale of a some victim from some state, or the tale of one innocent murderer "unjustly wronged" by the system and killed. I'd just like to know:
Why do you honestly believe the way you do about DP?
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Post by Lisa on Jan 16, 2007 22:44:40 GMT -6
Hi Momus......I would encourage you to read the links provided on this site as much as possible. I spent days reading this site before I joined the MB and it helped. I was already pro-DP but all of the reading reinforced my position and has helped me considerably when discussing/debating the DP on here.
Welcome.......Lisa
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Post by rosebud on Jan 17, 2007 2:05:36 GMT -6
Hi Momus......I would encourage you to read the links provided on this site as much as possible. I spent days reading this site before I joined the MB and it helped. I was already pro-DP but all of the reading reinforced my position and has helped me considerably when discussing/debating the DP on here. Welcome.......Lisa Ahhh now I have your name. I hated writing PDP lol |
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Post by Donnie on Jan 17, 2007 20:16:31 GMT -6
Why do you honestly believe the way you do about DP? The pursuit of justice is important to me. Or to put it on a bumpersticker: "Seek Justice". Just because an idea can be expressed on a bumper sticker doesn't mean it is a bad idea. |
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Post by crappieboy on Jan 18, 2007 6:18:21 GMT -6
Hello, all! I'm a very good high school debater with several connections on both sides of the DP debate. I know murderers, victims, friends of victims, friends of murderers, and regular people with views based off everything ranging from faith to cost. My time consuming activity (Debate) has brought me into contact with the DP debate many a time, but I've never just sat down and thought about what I believed (I've been conditioned out of that eons ago, now it's all about what I can win with). So, I have another few papers coming up on DP, and I've figured It's about time I make up my mind. I'm very very tired of hearing arguments that sound suspiciously like catchy bumper stickers and logic that is dependant either on one tearful tale of a some victim from some state, or the tale of one innocent murderer "unjustly wronged" by the system and killed. I'd just like to know: Why do you honestly believe the way you do about DP? As a MVS, one has to have thick skin to come to this site and stay, but your statement made me actually want to smack something! Perhaps you're not the great debater you think you are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 6:42:19 GMT -6
Hello, all! I'm a very good high school debater with several connections on both sides of the DP debate. I know murderers, victims, friends of victims, friends of murderers, and regular people with views based off everything ranging from faith to cost. My time consuming activity (Debate) has brought me into contact with the DP debate many a time, but I've never just sat down and thought about what I believed (I've been conditioned out of that eons ago, now it's all about what I can win with). So, I have another few papers coming up on DP, and I've figured It's about time I make up my mind. I'm very very tired of hearing arguments that sound suspiciously like catchy bumper stickers and logic that is dependant either on one tearful tale of a some victim from some state, or the tale of one innocent murderer "unjustly wronged" by the system and killed. I'd just like to know: Why do you honestly believe the way you do about DP? As a MVS, one has to have thick skin to come to this site and stay, but your statement made me actually want to smack something! Perhaps you're not the great debater you think you are. Thank you CB, I am glad to know I was not alone in reacting like this. I wanted to punch something as well when I read it. As if "some victim from some state" does not mean the world to those suffering from the loss.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 8:13:40 GMT -6
Thanks CB and JBS, I just noticed this and thought the same thing.
I guess my catchy bumpersticker doesn't sit well with some people. It is very simple and I don't know if it is catchy but it says it like it is "SOMEONE I LOVE WAS MURDERED".
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 18, 2007 8:20:58 GMT -6
It's never some victim in some state. Those victims matter. Every single one of them. They matter so much that their murderer should be put to death for taking that victim's life. That is the pro position.
It's when you start factoring in the murderer's life that you waiver and lean anti.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 8:55:20 GMT -6
Plus for you too Greggsmom. Having a reason for that bumper sticker is the last thing in the world any of us wanted. Maybe it will do some good if it wakes some people up and they finally face the fact that it is not always someone else - if it could be our loved ones, it could be theirs just as easily. Perhaps I need to get one of those made too.
Shelli you are so right. Plus on the way to you too when I have one. (CB got hers earlier)
Bless you all.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 18, 2007 9:16:22 GMT -6
I guess my catchy bumpersticker doesn't sit well with some people. It is very simple and I don't know if it is catchy but it says it like it is "SOMEONE I LOVE WAS MURDERED". It sits well with me. My license plate frame reads "EVERY MURDER VICTIM COUNTS" |
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Jan 18, 2007 10:02:45 GMT -6
I used to believe that it would NEVER happen to my family. I hate that now about myself, how I used to feel this. I know 1st hand you can lose people with no notice. To answer the question, a lot of my views on DP come from becoming a MVS.
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Post by crappieboy on Jan 18, 2007 10:23:43 GMT -6
Thanks CB and JBS, I just noticed this and thought the same thing. I guess my catchy bumpersticker doesn't sit well with some people. It is very simple and I don't know if it is catchy but it says it like it is "SOMEONE I LOVE WAS MURDERED". Got one of those too! It does, in fact, make people uncomfortable. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 22:29:48 GMT -6
I sincerely apologize to anyone offended by my prompt. I merely inquire as to logical / (constitutional perhaps?) arguments made for or against the DP. My remark was only intended to discourage personal responses to the DP, since, at the moment, the fact that a death may mean the world to you, does not address the simple question of constitutional interpretation, cost, or philosophical grounds. Unless, of course, the murder of a loved one and the feeling that you have been cheated out of justice IS your sole reason for being pro-DP, in which I am just as interested in hearing why your circumstance represents a national corruption.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 18, 2007 22:52:01 GMT -6
I sincerely apologize to anyone offended by my prompt. I merely inquire as to logical / (constitutional perhaps?) arguments made for or against the DP. My remark was only intended to discourage personal responses to the DP, since, at the moment, the fact that a death may mean the world to you, does not address the simple question of constitutional interpretation, cost, or philosophical grounds. Unless, of course, the murder of a loved one and the feeling that you have been cheated out of justice IS your sole reason for being pro-DP, in which I am just as interested in hearing why your circumstance represents a national corruption. National corruption? What the he#ll does that mean? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 23:04:13 GMT -6
I sincerely apologize to anyone offended by my prompt. I merely inquire as to logical / (constitutional perhaps?) arguments made for or against the DP. My remark was only intended to discourage personal responses to the DP, since, at the moment, the fact that a death may mean the world to you, does not address the simple question of constitutional interpretation, cost, or philosophical grounds. Unless, of course, the murder of a loved one and the feeling that you have been cheated out of justice IS your sole reason for being pro-DP, in which I am just as interested in hearing why your circumstance represents a national corruption. National corruption? What the he#ll does that mean? Ummmm.... Like a flaw in the system. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2007 23:39:27 GMT -6
It's never some victim in some state. Those victims matter. Every single one of them. They matter so much that their murderer should be put to death for taking that victim's life. That is the pro position. It's when you start factoring in the murderer's life that you waiver and lean anti. And, although I still believe a murderer is a human being (and has the basic rights of a human being), their life is not a valid point against the cost to families. Once you murder, an ultimate betrayal of our laws, shouldn't they naturally loose their worth as a viable factor? |
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Post by Donnie on Jan 19, 2007 0:58:05 GMT -6
Idoes not address the simple question of constitutional interpretation. The question of interpreting the Constitution is indeed simple. The Constitution was written in English, so it doesn't need to be interpreted by those of us who speak English. When a judge says that he is going to interpret the Constitution, he generally means that he is going to change the Constitution to suit his personal whims. Thomas Jefferson immediately noticed that problem when he returned from France. It has gotten worse since then. |
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Post by Lotus Flower on Jan 19, 2007 3:43:00 GMT -6
It's never some victim in some state. Those victims matter. Every single one of them. They matter so much that their murderer should be put to death for taking that victim's life. That is the pro position. It's when you start factoring in the murderer's life that you waiver and lean anti. And, although I still believe a murderer is a human being (and has the basic rights of a human being), their life is not a valid point against the cost to families. Once you murder, an ultimate betrayal of our laws, shouldn't they naturally loose their worth as a viable factor? I would agree completely with your statement. The other factor is that because we have laws we have punishments in place for those laws. When you commit a crime and are sentenced to prison, you walk into that prison forfeiting your rights. You are now a ward of the state and they, in essence, own you. Thus, when you murder, you forfeit your rights and the state has then the right to punish you by death. Again, it's when an anti says that the prisoners have rights (as if they equal those who have not murderered) that I have strong disagreements. Rights are lost the moment they took a person's life. To me, it's pretty straightforward. |
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Post by Lisa on Jan 19, 2007 11:43:19 GMT -6
Momus, again I enourage to read the material that is available on this website. I think you'll find the answers to your questions. It takes days but the answers are here already. A word of caution....I know you are young, but some of your questions on this thread are insensitive and surely you realize there are many MVS on this MB. THINK before you pose a question, "Can my question be worded more carefully so that I don't offend people who are hurting?" If your sympathies lie with the victims and their survivors instead of the murderer it's usually fairly easy for most people to post without being offensive. Otherwise, extreme caution should be used. Again, you are young but you seem quite bright so I think you will understand what I am trying to convey. Good luck with your debate.....again, DO THE READING. Go to the main website and click on the links provided. Don't avoid the links to the specifics of the murders that placed these people on DR. You must know WHO and WHY they received the death penalty and then my question to you would be WHY SHOULDN'T THEY BE EXECUTED? Explain one good reason why these people should be kept alive as they would continue to be a continuing danger to prison employees, medical personnel and other inmates.
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 19, 2007 13:54:40 GMT -6
Ummmm.... Like a flaw in the system. The MVSes here can speak for themselves, but that they exist, and are members of this board, is enough to prove murder simply doesn't offend the public the way it used to. |
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Post by phatkat on Jan 21, 2007 17:16:08 GMT -6
Since there hasn't been an anti on this topic yet, I'll be the first. I am opposed to the DP because in this day and age, I can't approve of the government having the power over the life and death of any of its people. That simple.
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~ Lauren
