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Post by Curiousity on Jan 8, 2006 16:11:49 GMT -6
How do you defend that the Death Penalty is not Cruel and Unusual punishment. Personally, I believe that once you have committed murder you lose your rights and therefore are not under the protection of the law (specifically the 8th amendment). Therefore, the cruel and unusual punishment clause does only apply to law abiding citizens. I'm not paralegal or anything though, so I don't know if I would be able to use this logic in a debate?
-Curious
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Post by blakely on Jan 8, 2006 16:51:06 GMT -6
Not only does the 8th Amendment control in capital cases, it introduces special considerations.
You must start out by using the correct legal definition of cruel and ususal punishment. It is not defined as, “Oh that sounds so mean and nasty!” ‘The cruel and unusual punishments clause of the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the imposition of a penalty that is disproportionate to the defendant’s “personal responsibility and moral guilt.” The USSC has ruled that the capital punishement, per se, is not cruel and unusal.
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Post by Curious on Jan 8, 2006 17:40:02 GMT -6
Could you explain the USSC for me? Thanks, good interpretation
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2006 17:54:33 GMT -6
Could you explain the USSC for me? Thanks, good interpretation United States Supreme Court |
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Post by blakely on Jan 8, 2006 18:08:26 GMT -6
Could you explain the USSC for me? Thanks, good interpretation Thanks. But it is not my interpretation. It's the USSC's. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2006 18:40:42 GMT -6
Could you explain the USSC for me? Thanks, good interpretation United States Supreme Court Ah, I hate abbreviations ha. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2006 19:40:57 GMT -6
United States Supreme Court Ah, I hate abbreviations ha. You will know next time!  |
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 8, 2006 20:20:59 GMT -6
How do you defend that the Death Penalty is not Cruel and Unusual punishment. Personally, I believe that once you have committed murder you lose your rights and therefore are not under the protection of the law (specifically the 8th amendment). Therefore, the cruel and unusual punishment clause does only apply to law abiding citizens. I'm not paralegal or anything though, so I don't know if I would be able to use this logic in a debate? -Curious Morals and logic aren't mutually exclusive. To me, if the criminal act being punished is voluntary and easily avoided, any punishment is morally appropriate. |
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Post by californian on Jan 8, 2006 23:26:10 GMT -6
How do you defend that the Death Penalty is not Cruel and Unusual punishment. Personally, I believe that once you have committed murder you lose your rights and therefore are not under the protection of the law (specifically the 8th amendment). Therefore, the cruel and unusual punishment clause does only apply to law abiding citizens. I'm not paralegal or anything though, so I don't know if I would be able to use this logic in a debate? -Curious The DP is specifically authorized in the Fifth Amendment: " No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. " (boldface added) This means that the Founders not only contemplated a death penalty in American jurisprudence, but specifically authorized it. |
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Post by Donnie on Jan 10, 2006 20:19:16 GMT -6
[This means that the Founders not only contemplated a death penalty in American jurisprudence, but specifically authorized it. However, Thomas Jefferson did later state that those guilty of buggery should be castrated instead of executed. But I guess some folk think that he was a right wing nut. Your comment reminded me of a passage in David McCullough's book about John Adams. He wrote about a letter that Abigail Adams wrote while she was in England. She was riding in a public coach when it was stopped by a young and incompetent highwayman. The people in the coach overwhelmed the young highwayman and gleefully hanged him on the spot. Mrs Adams noted that it was, of course right to hang him, but she was troubled by the glee that accompanied what she thought should have been a more solemn event. She was right. Even when I was active aginst the DP I despised the thought of using judicial usurpation to outlaw the DP by brutally violating the Constitution. It is stunningly dishonest for a jurist to argue that the "cruel and unusual" clause could even remotely be applied to the the current use of the DP. |
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Post by johnbgraf on Jan 12, 2006 7:05:12 GMT -6
The DP is specifically authorized in the Fifth Amendment: This means that the Founders not only contemplated a death penalty in American jurisprudence, but specifically authorized it. It is amazing how far our legal system has gone to the dogs.The DP is the clear cut exercise of pure justice.Our founding Fathers knew that,but if they could see what our USSC has become they would turn over in their graves. |
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Post by sweethonesty on Jan 12, 2006 7:17:08 GMT -6
How do you defend that the Death Penalty is not Cruel and Unusual punishment. Personally, I believe that once you have committed murder you lose your rights and therefore are not under the protection of the law (specifically the 8th amendment). Therefore, the cruel and unusual punishment clause does only apply to law abiding citizens. I'm not paralegal or anything though, so I don't know if I would be able to use this logic in a debate? -Curious Thats your personal opinion, you are allowed to believe how ever you want. However, i dont believe its cruel or UNUSUAL at all, I see it as a punishment for a capital crime. Ask yourself this, did the victim die a cruel way? An Unusual Way? Why should a murderer get any less then the victim when it comes to death? I will continue to defend the DP. (thank you for your one day success) |
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Post by josephdphillips on Jan 12, 2006 10:41:05 GMT -6
It is amazing how far our legal system has gone to the dogs.The DP is the clear cut exercise of pure justice. Our founding Fathers knew that, but if they could see what our USSC has become they would turn over in their graves. I agree with you there, John. The nation's founders would not understand our compulsion to punish one murderer differently from another, or why juries should be involved in sentencing, and not the people. |
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Post by johnbgraf on Jan 13, 2006 5:37:18 GMT -6
It is amazing how far our legal system has gone to the dogs.The DP is the clear cut exercise of pure justice. Our founding Fathers knew that, but if they could see what our USSC has become they would turn over in their graves. I agree with you there, John. The nation's founders would not understand our compulsion to punish one murderer differently from another, or why juries should be involved in sentencing, and not the people. Joseph,this world of ours is an ever changing place.But it behoves us to take heed,and not let modern liberals change the principles of what our Founding Fathers truely wrote and ment when the Constitution was written.Our motto should be,"unchanging principles in an ever changing world".Certain laws& principles should not be changed or twisted.Unfortunately modern liberal law makers are ruining our legal system and the principles on which our great nation was built. |
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Post by David1 on Feb 17, 2006 12:22:22 GMT -6
Why has a Federal Judge ordered that California administer just Sodium Pentothal to avoid "cruel & Unusual" puishment, when this would take 40 minutes for death to occur, instead of 10-15 minutes for the 3 drug option. Surely, an injection of Cyanide or diamorphine would be faster acting without the need to ensure the inmate is unconscious before a rapid death occured. Is this just another attempt by Federal Judges to prevent the execution of the 600+ inmates at San Quentin Gaol. If executions were expedited within 10 years would this not prevent the need to expand the death row facility?
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Post by lolla on Feb 17, 2006 16:47:10 GMT -6
You cant prove that the death penalty is not cruel and unusual because it is cruel but now unusual. Its not unusual because its a normal thing but it is also cruel because you are taking the life of a person. It doesnt matter what crime that person committed because by eliminating that criminal you're not bringing anyone back to like. Yes by eliminating that one criminal you are permanently stopping them from committing anymore crimes, but the doesnt mean you can stop the whole nation from committing crimes because there are thousands of people doing the same crimes out there.
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Post by Donnie on Feb 28, 2006 0:15:44 GMT -6
You cant prove that the death penalty is not cruel and unusual because it is cruel but now unusual. Its not unusual because its a normal thing but it is also cruel because you are taking the life of a person. It doesnt matter what crime that person committed because by eliminating that criminal you're not bringing anyone back to like. Yes by eliminating that one criminal you are permanently stopping them from committing anymore crimes, but the doesnt mean you can stop the whole nation from committing crimes because there are thousands of people doing the same crimes out there. This is one of the largest doses of concentrated stupidity I have seen in a while. |
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Post by jennaleigh27 on Mar 5, 2006 17:20:23 GMT -6
On that note I'd have to agree with you Donnie.
Cruel - lacking or showing kindness or compassion or mercy.
Unusual - Not usual, common or ordinary.
This is one of the most controversial of pro versus anti.
One of the main purposes of incarceration is punishment, so if there were compassion or kindness for the convicted that would defeat the entire purpose of justice in any form. Unusual, you say? That's hard to comprehend since the DP has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. This is one of many illogical debates that is getting us anti's absolutely nowhere. Pros, one thing about it, with this argument applied your stand to keep the DP will always prevail.
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Post by Guest on Mar 28, 2006 0:26:27 GMT -6
GuDP may always prevail but in the end an eye for an eye will leave everyone blind...
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Post by jewe on Mar 28, 2006 1:32:57 GMT -6
GuDP may always prevail but in the end an eye for an eye will leave everyone blind... Very true, I like that that saying of : 2 wrongs ( murderers ) doesn't make 1 right. so, it's not right to execute murderers as executing murderers is state sponsored murder, and murder to IMO. I don't think that LI is a cruel death, but sill it's not a pleasant death either. Being sticked with a needle is not a comfortable feeling. It hurts, I have tattoo on my lower back and that needle sticking in and out, did hurt. |
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Post by Donnie on Mar 28, 2006 5:53:56 GMT -6
GuDP may always prevail but in the end an eye for an eye will leave everyone blind... Very true, . How can you say that something that is obviously false is "very true". |
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Post by Donnie on Mar 28, 2006 5:55:30 GMT -6
I don't think that LI is a cruel death, but sill it's not a pleasant death either. Being sticked with a needle is not a comfortable feeling. It hurts, I have tattoo on my lower back and that needle sticking in and out, did hurt. But as your action shows, the pain is trivial. |
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Post by jewe on Mar 28, 2006 10:42:22 GMT -6
I don't think that LI is a cruel death, but sill it's not a pleasant death either. Being sticked with a needle is not a comfortable feeling. It hurts, I have tattoo on my lower back and that needle sticking in and out, did hurt. But as your action shows, the pain is trivial. But it did still hurt. Not that it hurts that much, but it was not a nice feeling to feel someone sticking a needle in your skin in and out. And DR inmates that have tattos can maybe resist the sticking needle, but other's not and they will feel more than usual pain. But babies also get ammunization, so DR inmates should not complain. |
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Post by jennaleigh on Mar 28, 2006 14:58:48 GMT -6
But as your action shows, the pain is trivial. But it did still hurt. Not that it hurts that much, but it was not a nice feeling to feel someone sticking a needle in your skin in and out. And DR inmates that have tattos can maybe resist the sticking needle, but other's not and they will feel more than usual pain. But babies also get ammunization, so DR inmates should not complain. What a retarded rebuttal. |
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Post by onetwobomb on Mar 28, 2006 17:17:33 GMT -6
Well the DP isn't cruel since the inmates feel no pain (especially compared to what they've done), and it isn't unusual since it's been around for thousands of years.
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Post by onetwobomb on Mar 28, 2006 17:18:29 GMT -6
But as your action shows, the pain is trivial. But it did still hurt. Not that it hurts that much, but it was not a nice feeling to feel someone sticking a needle in your skin in and out. And DR inmates that have tattos can maybe resist the sticking needle, but other's not and they will feel more than usual pain. But babies also get ammunization, so DR inmates should not complain. LOL! |
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Post by jewe on Mar 29, 2006 10:25:55 GMT -6
Well the DP isn't cruel since the inmates feel no pain (especially compared to what they've done), and it isn't unusual since it's been around for thousands of years. I don't know if they feel any pain. Nobody asked them after the execution, neh ? But the execution of Morales was halted because some judge, doctors were thinking that he could feel pain. So, it's an issue that he might fel pain. The needle sticking in your skin also hurts, but some people don't even feel that. Every person is different. The tattoo needle sticking in and out did hurt me, but some people don't even feel it. It's hard to tell if a prisoner feels pain by either the needle and the actual execution. |
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Post by muddy22193 on Mar 29, 2006 11:14:43 GMT -6
Well the DP isn't cruel since the inmates feel no pain (especially compared to what they've done), and it isn't unusual since it's been around for thousands of years. I don't know if they feel any pain. Nobody asked them after the execution, neh ? But the execution of Morales was halted because some judge, doctors were thinking that he could feel pain. So, it's an issue that he might fel pain. The needle sticking in your skin also hurts, but some people don't even feel that. Every person is different. The tattoo needle sticking in and out did hurt me, but some people don't even feel it. It's hard to tell if a prisoner feels pain by either the needle and the actual execution. be that as it may but cruel and unusual punishment is you being allowed to post your rascist, vulgar and vile posts! |
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Post by jewe on Mar 29, 2006 11:17:16 GMT -6
I don't know if they feel any pain. Nobody asked them after the execution, neh ? But the execution of Morales was halted because some judge, doctors were thinking that he could feel pain. So, it's an issue that he might fel pain. The needle sticking in your skin also hurts, but some people don't even feel that. Every person is different. The tattoo needle sticking in and out did hurt me, but some people don't even feel it. It's hard to tell if a prisoner feels pain by either the needle and the actual execution. be that as it may but cruel and unusual punishment is you being allowed to post your rascist, vulgar and vile posts! There are some people I talk to and some not. You're in the No talking to list. Only will say that you also want to control immigration as you just told Kneedown. So, you're not different than me. you wrote : Excellent post, Knee! I specifically liked your statement that foreigners stay out unless they have a specialty you need. That echoes my same thoughts on US Immigration policies! So what is that different from my stance ?? O please, don't tell me, as I won't answer you anyway. |
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Post by muddy22193 on Mar 29, 2006 11:40:49 GMT -6
be that as it may but cruel and unusual punishment is you being allowed to post your rascist, vulgar and vile posts! There are some people I talk to and some not. You're in the No talking to list. Only will say that you also want to control immigration as you just told Kneedown. So, you're not different than me. you wrote : Excellent post, Knee! I specifically liked your statement that foreigners stay out unless they have a specialty you need. That echoes my same thoughts on US Immigration policies! So what is that different from my stance ?? O please, don't tell me, as I won't answer you anyway. My stance doesnt discriminate based on color but simply on legal status! Can not say the same about yours! |
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