Police Jurisdiction: Confused

[rayozz]

Seriously, why are there Sherrifs, County Police, Highway Patrol, City Police; and the list goes on.

Some seem to be elected, they cannot interfere once a line has been crossed.

A crime is committed. Why not fix it?

Seriously, I'd like to know how it operates.

Rayozz

[RickZ]

Well, rayozz, the simplest answer is that the various law enforcement agencies are delineated by the geographical areas into which their powers extend. Doesn't sound helpful, does it? Another way of putting it is the varous law enforcement agencies are a representation of the Federalust System of our Government.

Take this rather long-winded example:

Imagine the United States as one big circle. Within that big circle are law enforcement agencies that have jurisdiction within that entire circle, agencies such as the FBI, the U.S. Marashal Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), and similar agencies which I've probably forgotten and omitted.

Now, within that big circle are 51 littler circles. these littler circles represent the 50 states plus Washington, D.C. (Washington, D.C. is a special case. It is a city not within a state's jurisdiction or boundary. It has its own city police department, separate and distinct from the surrounding Virginia and Maryland ones.) Each are their own jurisdiction, and have agencies within each circle responsible for law enforcement within their state or circle, such as State Bureaus of Investigation, State Police or Highway Patrol, and the like. Within each of those 50 circles, or states, there are counties, and their numbers vary by state. Each County has a sheriff (from old English law), and the sheriff has legal authority within all parts of its county. Within each county are cities, with their own law enforcement agencies and jurisdictional boundaries. City police may not cross over jurisdictional lines, except in hot pursuit. It is a hierarchical standard of law enforcement. There are exceptions to this hierachy, such as military reservations, or bases, that may be within a county but not subject to enforcement by that county (again, except in hot pursuit). Military reservations have their own law enforcement: MP's (army military police), AP's (air force military police), SP's (shore patrol, or naval/marine military police). These, and other, agencies are responsible, along with federal authorities, for law enforcement on military reservations.

One reason for separating law enforcement by state is that laws vary from state to state, and even city to city. Back when the drinking age was a mosaic of laws, one could live in a 21-year-old drinking state, but near a border with an 18-year-old drinking state. While at 19, one may legally purchase liquor in the 18-year-old state, one becomes illegal back in one's home 21-year-old state, and subject to legal sanctions, including arrest.

The nested circles of law enforcement I use as an example form a firm delineation of a particular agency's geographical jurisdictional authority.

Hope this helps.

[blakely]

rayozz said:

Seriously, why are there Sherrifs, County Police, Highway Patrol, City Police; and the list goes on.

Some seem to be elected, they cannot interfere once a line has been crossed.

A crime is committed. Why not fix it?

Seriously, I'd like to know how it operates.

Rayozz

NonAmericans seem to have a problem with perception, in that they don't realize how fk'n big this country is. People complain that Americans are ignorant of other countries, but my state has more people than Canada or Australia. My local government is larger than their federal governments. Yet, they don't know who is on my city council. Same goes with Americans, in that I live in a very large city in a very large state. My local court system dwarfs that of most states.

[chazz]

blakely said:

rayozz said:

Seriously, why are there Sherrifs, County Police, Highway Patrol, City Police; and the list goes on.

Some seem to be elected, they cannot interfere once a line has been crossed.

A crime is committed. Why not fix it?

Seriously, I'd like to know how it operates.

Rayozz

NonAmericans seem to have a problem with perception, in that they don't realize how fk'n big this country is. People complain that Americans are ignorant of other countries, but my state has more people than Canada or Australia. My local government is larger than their federal governments. Yet, they don't know who is on my city council. Same goes with Americans, in that I live in a very large city in a very large state. My local court system dwarfs that of most states.

Just because you live in a big country has no relevant on whether or not it is ignorant not to know the system in other countries.

However, I would say regardless of the size of your city you shouldn't have to know how the legal systems in other countries work unless you have a specific reasons to do so.

Likewise, just because the US is a massive country doesn't mean we should all have an intricuate knowledge of its workings. Although it sometimes helps!

[blakely]

chazz said:

Just because you live in a big country has no relevant on whether or not it is ignorant not to know the system in other countries.

Boy, no one can ever accuse you of getting the point, can they?

chazz said:

However, I would say regardless of the size of your city you shouldn't have to know how the legal systems in other countries work unless you have a specific reasons to do so.

Then there is no reason for you to be posting in this forum, is there?

chazz said:

Likewise, just because the US is a massive country doesn't mean we should all have an intricuate knowledge of its workings.

Don't worry, you don't even come close.

[chazz]

blakely said:

chazz said:

Just because you live in a big country has no relevant on whether or not it is ignorant not to know the system in other countries.

Boy, no one can ever accuse you of getting the point, can they?

Then there is no reason for you to be posting in this forum, is there?

chazz said:

Likewise, just because the US is a massive country doesn't mean we should all have an intricuate knowledge of its workings.

Don't worry, you don't even come close.

Yawn

[RickZ]

blakely said:

NonAmericans seem to have a problem with perception, in that they don't realize how fk'n big this country is.

Boy, is that ever the truth.

New York City, not including the surrounding 'burbs, has a population of just over 8 million.

Out of the list of countries by population, New York City ALONE has a greater population than the following countries (with their population ranking):

92 Haiti 8,121,622 July 2005 est.
93 Azerbaijan 7,911,974 July 2005 est.
94 Burundi 7,795,426 July 2005 est.
95 Benin 7,649,360 July 2005 est.
96 Switzerland 7,489,370 July 2005 est.
97 Bulgaria 7,450,349 July 2005 est.
98 Honduras 7,167,902 July 2005 est.
99 Tajikistan 7,163,506 July 2005 est.
100 Hong Kong 6,898,686 July 2005 est.
101 El Salvador 6,704,932 July 2005 est.
102 Paraguay 6,347,884 July 2005 est.
103 Israel 6,276,883 July 2005 est.
104 Laos 6,217,141 July 2005 est.
105 Sierra Leone 5,867,426 July 2005 est.
106 Libya 5,765,563 July 2005 est.
107 Jordan 5,759,732 July 2005 est.
108 Papua New Guinea 5,545,268 July 2005 est.
109 Nicaragua 5,465,100 July 2005 est.
110 Denmark 5,432,335 July 2005 est.
111 Slovakia 5,431,363 July 2005 est.
112 Togo 5,399,991 July 2005 est.
113 Finland 5,223,442 July 2005 est.
114 Kyrgyzstan 5,146,281 July 2005 est.
115 Turkmenistan 4,952,081 July 2005 est.
116 Georgia 4,677,401 July 2005 est.
117 Eritrea 4,669,638 July 2005 est.
118 Norway 4,593,041 July 2005 est.
119 Croatia 4,495,904 July 2005 est.
120 Moldova 4,455,421 July 2005 est.
121 Bosnia and Herzegovina 4,430,494 July 2005 est.
122 Singapore 4,425,720 July 2005 est.
123 Central African Republic 4,237,703 July 2005 est.
124 New Zealand 4,035,461 July 2005 est.
125 Costa Rica 4,016,173 July 2005 est.
126 Ireland 4,015,676 July 2005 est.
127 Puerto Rico 3,911,299 July 2005 est.
128 Lebanon 3,826,018 July 2005 est.
129 Congo, Republic of the 3,602,269 July 2005 est.
130 Lithuania 3,596,617 July 2005 est.
131 Albania 3,563,112 July 2005 est.
132 Uruguay 3,415,920 July 2005 est.
133 Panama 3,140,232 July 2005 est.
134 Mauritania 3,086,859 July 2005 est.
135 Oman 3,001,583 July 2005 est.
136 Armenia 2,982,904 July 2005 est.
137 Liberia 2,900,269 July 2005 est.
138 Mongolia 2,791,272 July 2005 est.
139 Jamaica 2,735,520 July 2005 est.
140 United Arab Emirates 2,563,212 July 2005 est.
141 West Bank 2,385,615 NA
142 Kuwait 2,335,648 July 2005 est.
143 Latvia 2,290,237 July 2005 est.
144 Bhutan 2,232,291 July 2005 est.
145 Macedonia 2,045,262 July 2005 est.
146 Lesotho 2,031,348 July 2005 est.
147 Namibia 2,030,692 July 2005 est.
148 Slovenia 2,011,070 July 2005 est.
149 Botswana 1,640,115 July 2005 est.
150 Gambia, The 1,595,086 July 2005 est.
151 Guinea-Bissau 1,413,446 July 2005 est.
152 Gabon 1,394,307 July 2005 est.
153 Gaza Strip 1,376,289 July 2005 est.
154 Estonia 1,332,893 July 2005 est.
155 Mauritius 1,230,602 July 2005 est.
156 Swaziland 1,138,227 July 2005 est.
157 Trinidad and Tobago 1,075,066 July 2005 est.
158 East Timor 1,040,880 July 2005 est.
159 Fiji 893,354 July 2005 est.
160 Qatar 863,051 July 2005 est.
161 Cyprus 780,133 July 2005 est.
162 Reunion 776,948 July 2005 est.
163 Guyana 765,283 July 2005 est.
164 Bahrain 688,345 July 2005 est.
165 Comoros 671,247 July 2005 est.
166 Solomon Islands 538,032 July 2005 est.
167 Equatorial Guinea 529,034 July 2005 est.
168 Djibouti 476,703 July 2005 est.
169 Luxembourg 468,571 July 2005 est.
170 Macau 449,198 July 2005 est.
171 Guadeloupe 448,713 July 2005 est.
172 Suriname 438,144 July 2005 est.
173 Martinique 432,900 July 2005 est.
174 Cape Verde 418,224 July 2005 est.
175 Malta 398,534 July 2005 est.
176 Brunei 372,361 July 2005 est.
177 Maldives 349,106 July 2005 est.
178 Bahamas, The 301,790 July 2005 est.
179 Iceland 296,737 July 2005 est.
180 Belize 281,084 July 2005 est.
181 Barbados 278,870 July 2005 est.
182 Western Sahara 273,008 July 2005 est.
183 French Polynesia 270,485 July 2005 est.
184 Netherlands Antilles 219,958 July 2005 est.
185 New Caledonia 216,494 July 2005 est.
186 Vanuatu 205,754 July 2005 est.
187 French Guiana 195,506 July 2005 est.
188 Mayotte 193,633 July 2005 est.
189 Sao Tome and Principe 187,410 July 2005 est.
190 Samoa 177,287 July 2005 est.
191 Guam 168,564 July 2005 est.
192 Saint Lucia 166,312 July 2005 est.
193 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 117,534 July 2005 est.
194 Tonga 112,422 July 2005 est.
195 Virgin Islands 108,708 July 2005 est.
196 Micronesia, Federated States of 108,105 July 2005 est.
197 Kiribati 103,092 July 2005 est.
198 Jersey 90,812 July 2005 est.
199 Grenada 89,502 July 2005 est.
200 Seychelles 81,188 July 2005 est.
201 Northern Mariana Islands 80,362 July 2005 est.
202 Man, Isle of 75,049 July 2005 est.
203 Aruba 71,566 July 2005 est.
204 Andorra 70,549 July 2005 est.
205 Dominica 69,029 July 2005 est.
206 Antigua and Barbuda 68,722 July 2005 est.
207 Bermuda 65,365 July 2005 est.
208 Guernsey 65,228 July 2005 est.
209 Marshall Islands 59,071 July 2005 est.
210 American Samoa 57,881 July 2005 est.
211 Greenland 56,375 July 2005 est.
212 Faroe Islands 46,962 July 2005 est.
213 Cayman Islands 44,270 July 2005 est.
214 Saint Kitts and Nevis 38,958 July 2005 est.
215 Liechtenstein 33,717 July 2005 est.
216 Monaco 32,409 July 2005 est.
217 San Marino 28,880 July 2005 est.
218 Gibraltar 27,884 July 2005 est.
219 British Virgin Islands 22,643 July 2005 est.
220 Cook Islands 21,388 July 2005 est.
221 Turks and Caicos Islands 20,556 July 2005 est.
222 Palau 20,303 July 2005 est.
223 Wallis and Futuna 16,025 July 2005 est.
224 Anguilla 13,254 July 2005 est.
225 Nauru 13,048 July 2005 est.
226 Tuvalu 11,636 July 2005 est.
227 Montserrat 9,341 July 2005 est.
228 Saint Helena 7,460 July 2005 est.
229 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 7,012 July 2005 est.
230 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 2,967 July 2005 est.
231 Svalbard 2,701 July 2005 est.
232 Niue 2,166 July 2005 est.
233 Norfolk Island 1,828 July 2005 est.
234 Tokelau 1,392 July 2005 est.
235 Holy See (Vatican City) 932 July 2005 est.
236 Cocos (Keeling) Islands 628 July 2005 est.
237 Johnston Atoll 361 July 2005 est.
238 Christmas Island 361 July 2005 est.
239 Pitcairn Islands 45 July 2005 est.

www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html

To support blakely's post, not only are we a large country geographically speaking, but, with a total national population approaching 300 million, we are a large country population-wise, too. So for all those little *deleted*-ant countries that like to irk us, get over your d*mnselves.

[Shaka]

chazz said:

blakely said:

NonAmericans seem to have a problem with perception, in that they don't realize how fk'n big this country is. People complain that Americans are ignorant of other countries, but my state has more people than Canada or Australia. My local government is larger than their federal governments. Yet, they don't know who is on my city council. Same goes with Americans, in that I live in a very large city in a very large state. My local court system dwarfs that of most states.

Just because you live in a big country has no relevant on whether or not it is ignorant not to know the system in other countries.

However, I would say regardless of the size of your city you shouldn't have to know how the legal systems in other countries work unless you have a specific reasons to do so.

Likewise, just because the US is a massive country doesn't mean we should all have an intricuate knowledge of its workings. Although it sometimes helps!

Chazz how stupid are you. The principle of a federal government isn't rocket science.

FBI ... a federal police force juridiction USA.

State Police/Troopers, Texas Rangers, Highway Patrol ... are state wide police forces example California Highway Patrol.

County Sheriffs/Police.. a county wide police, example Orange County Sheriffs Department or Los Angeles County Police Department.

City Police ... DOH! city wide police.

There is good reason for having all these hierachical layers. I beleive when a serious crime such as murder occurs in rural areas it is the Sheriffs Department that investigates it. Although I beleive in place like the City of Los Angeles it is the City police that investigates. If this wasn't so then every small town in the US would have to have its own trained Murder detectives etc etc.

As Rick so rightly said there is some elasticity in the system. For example when police are in hot pursuit of a vehical, they can cross city, county and even statelines. It must be said though by that time the Highway Patrols of the two states concerned would be involved anyway. Example go to Barstow,CA. you'll see both CA and NV highway patrols dunkin' donuts with Barstow PD; the situation is reversed in Jean, NV.

[Shaka]

One other thing...

faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/polstruct.htm

Note that DOJ and Treasury countrol the main federal agencies.

[rayozz]

Thank you for the explanations. I had no intention of 'irking' your law enforcement system, just wanted to understand a little more.

Rayozz

[blakely]

The only one "irked" was Chazz.

[RickZ]

rayozz said:

Thank you for the explanations. I had no intention of 'irking' your law enforcement system, just wanted to understand a little more.

No, definitely not you, rayozz. Blakely has correctly pointed out the irksome idiot on this thread.

[chazz]

rickz said:

rayozz said:

Thank you for the explanations. I had no intention of 'irking' your law enforcement system, just wanted to understand a little more.

No, definitely not you, rayozz. Blakely has correctly pointed out the irksome idiot on this thread.

Merely expressing a point of view with which you disagree.

Chazz

[blakely]

No, you were merely expressing another one of your misinformed non sequiturs.

[chazz]

blakely said:

No, you were merely expressing another one of your misinformed non sequiturs.

The only thing misinformed is you.

You seem to think that us Europeans are completely thick and aren't enitled to a POV.

Chazz

[blakely]

You've demonstrated repeatedly how completely thick you are.

[Shaka]

Another point I beleive in the EU theres a thing called Europol, it's a wannabe federal police. It really doesn't have the teeth or the "autonomy" of a true federal police like the FBI. Theres also police forces with national powers of arrest like State Police examples include Spanish Guardia Civil, the (Italian) Caribineri, the (french) gendarmerie.

From a bit of research the latin countries in the "EU" have a gendarmerie or paramiltary police aswell as a National Police. Each has national powers of arrest but differring functions.

BTW I beleive Turkeys national police is also called the gendarmerie. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police ( the Mounties ) serves the same purpose as the FBI in the US, and on many occaissions work together.

[chazz]

blakely said:

You've demonstrated repeatedly how completely thick you are.

Have I really.

And you have repeatedly expressed how arrogant you are.

Chazz

[chazz]

shaka said:

Another point I beleive in the EU theres a thing called Europol, it's a wannabe federal police. It really doesn't have the teeth or the "autonomy" of a true federal police like the FBI. Theres also police forces with national powers of arrest like State Police examples include Spanish Guardia Civil, the (Italian) Caribineri, the (french) gendarmerie.

From a bit of research the latin countries in the "EU" have a gendarmerie or paramiltary police aswell as a National Police. Each has national powers of arrest but differring functions.

BTW I beleive Turkeys national police is also called the gendarmerie. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police ( the Mounties ) serves the same purpose as the FBI in the US, and on many occaissions work together.

The main idea behind EUROPOL is to distribute international arrest warrants within Europe, I don't believe they have particular Police Officers/Unites. Their role is similar to the role that INTERPOL has worldwide.

Chazz

[californian]

blakely said:

chazz said:

Just because you live in a big country has no relevant on whether or not it is ignorant not to know the system in other countries.

Boy, no one can ever accuse you of getting the point, can they?

Even more to the point, they seem to have trouble understanding the depth of indifference we feel towards the opinions of foreigners concerning out great nation.