|
|
Post by holdyourlight on Apr 12, 2005 20:40:48 GMT -6
i was just thinking...
do you think it would be cruel and unusual to to execute an alcoholic, who committed their crime while they were drunk?
alcoholism is a disease..what do you think?
|
|
Katyusha
Regular
After some deep thought and consideration-Anti
Posts: 474
|
Post by Katyusha on Apr 13, 2005 7:59:00 GMT -6
Hi there!
IMO,they should be punished severely,but they should not be executed if it is clear that they committed their crime under the influence of alcohol/drugs cause,in this case,they can not be thought of as to be fully responsible for it....
|
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 13, 2005 12:09:41 GMT -6
I dont agree with execution for anyone, but I think LWOP is fine if alcohol or drugs are a factor. In other words it is no excuse! If you introduce a substance that affects your behaviour YOU remain responsible for what happens!
|
|
|
|
Post by dio on Apr 13, 2005 18:03:49 GMT -6
i was just thinking... do you think it would be cruel and unusual to to execute an alcoholic, who committed their crime while they were drunk? alcoholism is a disease..what do you think? I think a strong case could be made for pre=meditation.The alcholic knows full well before they get behind the wheel of a vehicle that they could very easily kill themself or others.I would have no problem with this being a DP eligible crime strictly on this premise alone. |
|
|
|
Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 13, 2005 21:07:59 GMT -6
I get drunk almost everyday and I would never comprehend murdering someone or committing crimes, or driving drunk. Booze is no excuse for stuff like that. Now falling over and breaking things, well, thats another story.
|
|
|
|
Post by fmk on Apr 13, 2005 22:48:43 GMT -6
you might if i spilled your pint
|
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 14, 2005 6:00:42 GMT -6
we should be so lucky!
|
|
|
|
Post by cynthiak on Apr 14, 2005 17:50:49 GMT -6
Hi there! IMO,they should be punished severely,but they should not be executed if it is clear that they committed their crime under the influence of alcohol/drugs cause,in this case,they can not be thought of as to be fully responsible for it.... How can they not be thought of as fully responsible? Did someone else help them in the murder? |
|
|
|
Post by sally104 on Apr 14, 2005 18:57:25 GMT -6
get real  If they got themselves drunk they are responsible |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2005 3:58:08 GMT -6
Generally, someone who is drunk is only tried as 2nd degree murder.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rebel Yell on Apr 16, 2005 7:20:01 GMT -6
So just remember boys and girls, if your planning on killing someone, get drunk first. PLLLEEEAAASE.
STICK THEM
|
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 16, 2005 13:16:59 GMT -6
please LWOP them!
|
|
|
|
Post by sally104 on Apr 17, 2005 1:26:41 GMT -6
Over here, we don't recognise being drunk as a defence. Therefore, I don't believe that it is cruel and unusual to execute and alchy
|
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 18, 2005 2:32:47 GMT -6
I agree that being drunk is no defence for anything, however I dont agree with DP for any person. I believe that LWOP is an option.
|
|
|
|
Post by Benty on Apr 25, 2005 11:19:26 GMT -6
i was just thinking... do you think it would be cruel and unusual to to execute an alcoholic, who committed their crime while they were drunk? alcoholism is a disease..what do you think? Unless someone poured the alcohol down thier throat under force, then no, I disagree, we are all responsible for our own actions. If they chose to drink and became a murderer, then then should pay the price of murder. Suffice to say there are DWI laws in just about every society, so if someone used your example, they would all be found not guilty because of disease and let go to do more crimes while drunk. |
|
|
|
Post by cynthiak on Apr 25, 2005 15:43:11 GMT -6
For those of you who don't really have the honor of dealing with alcoholics, I just got a call from my wonderful aunt (the one that got to raise my brother and I when freak killed my mother) I got totally cussed out because I work night shift and "my children are miserable". Then she hangs up on me. These calls will continue into the evening I assure you. This is the same woman who would wake me up at 2:00 in the morning on school nights to drive her around while she drank..she would even buy me beer and tell me to drink with her since no one can. I remember being small, very small, and she would drive my brother and I around all night long while she was so drunk she couldnt even stand, but she could drive a car like a pro. Had she wrecked and killed me and my brother, what should happen to her? Had she wrecked and not only killed us, but someone else...what should happen? Ever since I first went to live with that woman, she has drank. My first memory is of her beating me because I wasn't asleep. Should a person like that who drinks to that point be treated as if they really didnt mean to do what they did? I realize it is a disease, blah blah blah. But no one forces them to start drinking.
|
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Apr 25, 2005 15:45:35 GMT -6
My stepfather was a wild drunk. I know exactly what you mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 25, 2005 15:50:08 GMT -6
guys like that give respectable drunkards a bad name. drinking and driving is huge no-no in Agaveman's book of ethics, and beating someone because you are drunk is dispicable.
|
|
|
|
Post by cynthiak on Apr 25, 2005 15:51:59 GMT -6
What I see I left out was my opinion on the issue (sorry bout that, still fuming from the phone call) Should they be prosecuted? Heck yeah.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 25, 2005 15:54:07 GMT -6
Should they be prosecuted? Heck yeah. natually. |
|
|
|
Post by cynthiak on Apr 25, 2005 16:06:44 GMT -6
You being a smarty pants with me?  |
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 26, 2005 3:18:36 GMT -6
so drunk people drive cars just like pro's? Bit of an admission there or a freudian slip? Any comments pro's about your driving skills, and what they are compared to?
|
|
|
|
Post by cynthiak on Apr 26, 2005 9:27:52 GMT -6
Well, Felix, unless you have been in a situation like I was in, you shall never know what it was like.
But yes, I did. I can admit that. I can also admit that it happened when it was either that, or take another beating. Now, should I have been driving and drinking...hell no! Should I have been punished should something have happened. Hell yes! Did I get VERY VERY lucky? Hell yes. Unless you grew up in the house of an alcoholic, you have no idea what anything is like with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Felix2 on Apr 26, 2005 12:48:20 GMT -6
Well I did not grow up with an alcoholic parent as neither drank. I try to make up for that, but if I or anyone with me was not enjoying drinking or my drinking, I would knock it on the head!
|
|
|
|
Post by Donnie on Apr 30, 2005 8:21:17 GMT -6
It is a disease which an alcoholic has the option to control to the extent that she can prevent her disease from harming any others. When the alcoholic murders killl becaue they have decided to insufficiently control their disease, they should be executed. The murder victim did not cause the alcoholic's disease or their failure to control their disease. |
|
|
|
Post by Donnie on Apr 30, 2005 8:29:56 GMT -6
so drunk people drive cars just like pro's? Bit of an admission there or a freudian slip? Any comments pro's about your driving skills, and what they are compared to? No admission or slip was involved. In the US, the word fragment "pro" is understood to mean "professional", so, in this case it would mean a professional driver. Generally when the phrase "like a pro" is used , it implies a high degree of skill, perhaps even more than one would expect from an average professional. |
|
|
|
Post by Rev. Agave on Apr 30, 2005 14:08:18 GMT -6
i was just thinking... do you think it would be cruel and unusual to to execute an alcoholic, who committed their crime while they were drunk? alcoholism is a disease..what do you think? Alcoholism is no disease. Folks in groups like AA make up concepts like the 12 steps and pass it off as science. Alcoholism is a behavior pattern or a condition that has been artifically construed as a disease. Those chemical dependency tests are BS too. How do you exactly determine the scientific criterea that makes someone an alcoholic? Besides, I prefer the term 'Modern Drunkard'. If AA helps folks in their lives, great. But they consistantly pass phrases off like, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" as if it were a fact. |
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Apr 30, 2005 14:20:39 GMT -6
Alcoholism is no disease. Folks in groups like AA make up concepts like the 12 steps and pass it off as science. Alcoholism is a behavior pattern or a condition that has been artifically construed as a disease. Those chemical dependency tests are BS too. How do you exactly determine the scientific criterea that makes someone an alcoholic? Besides, I prefer the term 'Modern Drunkard'. If AA helps folks in their lives, great. But they consistantly pass phrases off like, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" as if it were a fact. Spot on, Agaveman. My dictionary defines disease as "a disordered or abnormal condition of an organ or other part of an organism resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, nutritional deficiency, toxicity or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness" While alcohol is arguably toxic, it is only so in large quantities. The voluntary consumption of alcohol cannot be ascribed to "disease" any more than the voluntary consumption of nicotine is a "disease." Someone who is stupid or irresponsible isn't incapacitated by his "disease." He's just stupid and irresponsible, and if his actions cause harm, he requires punishment. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2005 16:32:57 GMT -6
There are actually 2 types of alcoholics. Type I alcoholics develop it over time and really is not a disease. Later onset, gradual onset, fewer relatives with alcoholism, men & women have it equally, and is generally less severe. Type II (which is relatively rare) do have biological differences that predispose them to become alcoholics. Earlier onset, more rapid onset (many times from the first drink), men more often than women, and is often severe.
Low serotonin turnover has been linked to impulsiveness and violence and it is evident in those with Type II. Research with monozygotic twins shows a greater correlation than for dizygotic twins. The same applies to children of alcoholics adopted by nonalcoholics have a higher rate of alcoholism.
There is definitely evidence to say that alcoholism (at least Type II) has ties to genetics. The problem is that people lump them all together which allows the Type I people to get off lighter and to hurt the research on those Type II who may actually have a disease.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dea on May 3, 2005 13:04:19 GMT -6
If you ever had to live with an alcoholic, you'd get used to hearing every bad thing they ever did blamed on alcohol. It gets old. I was constantly told it was a "disease" as if that explained everything. It doesn't, and shouldn't be used as an excuse for anything.
|
|
