epilepsy

[ttwomey]

Hi,
Wondering what you think of this scenario.

Epileptic is driving a car. Has a seizure. Car jumps curb and hits mother with child. Both are killed. Driver lives. Should this be a death penalty case?

What about with the following scenarios:
1. Was faithfully on medication - no one knows why seizure happened.

2. Was faithfully on medication - but medication only suppresses most, not all seizures.

3. Was on medication, but forgot to take it that morning.

4. Refused medication because did not like side effects. Knew of risk of seizures but had never had one while driving before and drove a lot.

5. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving but never killed anyone before.

6. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving - had already had one accident that resulted in pedestrian death.

7. Was on a placebo, believed it was medicine that worked.

I would really appreciate feedback.
- T

[Deleted]

Guest-ttwomey said:

Hi,
Wondering what you think of this scenario.

Epileptic is driving a car. Has a seizure. Car jumps curb and hits mother with child. Both are killed. Driver lives. Should this be a death penalty case?

What about with the following scenarios:
1. Was faithfully on medication - no one knows why seizure happened.

2. Was faithfully on medication - but medication only suppresses most, not all seizures.

3. Was on medication, but forgot to take it that morning.

4. Refused medication because did not like side effects. Knew of risk of seizures but had never had one while driving before and drove a lot.

5. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving but never killed anyone before.

6. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving - had already had one accident that resulted in pedestrian death.

7. Was on a placebo, believed it was medicine that worked.

I would really appreciate feedback.
- T

My first question would be did they get their driver's license legally?

www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/social_driving.html
To obtain a driver's license in most states, a person with epilepsy must be free of seizures that affect consciousness for a certain period of time and may be required to submit a doctor's statement of opinion that the person can drive safely. The seizure-free period varies from state to state.

To obtain a driver's license in most states, a person with epilepsy must be free of seizures that affect consciousness for a certain period of time and may be required to submit a doctor's statement of opinion that the person can drive safely.

[Benty]

ttwomey posted re; epilepsy.

1,2, I say no because nobody can predict what the human body will do, especially under stress. I'd equate it to a heart-attack. I wouldn't even bring a manslaughter charge.
3. Questionable for manslaughter but not the DP. If he/she truly forgot, who is without fault?
4. Definately a DP candidate. I'd equate this to a person drinking and driving because they know what can happen and the difference between right and wrong.
5. Same as 4.
6. Same as 5.
7. Wish I was his/her lawyer because some drug company would pay thru the nose. No criminal prosecution however, peson was unaware.

Help?

[Rev. Agave]

Guest-ttwomey said:

Hi,
Wondering what you think of this scenario.

Epileptic is driving a car. Has a seizure. Car jumps curb and hits mother with child. Both are killed. Driver lives. Should this be a death penalty case?

What about with the following scenarios:
1. Was faithfully on medication - no one knows why seizure happened.

2. Was faithfully on medication - but medication only suppresses most, not all seizures.

3. Was on medication, but forgot to take it that morning.

4. Refused medication because did not like side effects. Knew of risk of seizures but had never had one while driving before and drove a lot.

5. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving but never killed anyone before.

6. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving - had already had one accident that resulted in pedestrian death.

7. Was on a placebo, believed it was medicine that worked.

I would really appreciate feedback.
- T

Under none of those circumstances should the DP apply. If we are gonna have the DP, I think there must be intended malice with aggravating circumstances. I am not saying that 4, and especially 5 and 6 do not warrant serious penalties though.

[Deleted]

I agree with Agaveman. 4 would be eligible for manslaughter and 5 and 6 might get you manslaughter or 2nd degree murder charge. This does not rise to the level of a death sentence. We reserve that for those who commit especially heinous crimes like murdering a police officer, killing multiple people, the rape-murder of a 16 year old girl, etc.

[sally104]

Hi,
Wondering what you think of this scenario.

Epileptic is driving a car. Has a seizure. Car jumps curb and hits mother with child. Both are killed. Driver lives. Should this be a death penalty case?

Generally Not

What about with the following scenarios:
1. Was faithfully on medication - no one knows why seizure happened.

If he complied with license regulations when he applied

2. Was faithfully on medication - but medication only suppresses most, not all seizures.

Probably should not be holding a license. Still Manslaughter as this is an act of gross negligence
3. Was on medication, but forgot to take it that morning.

See no 2
4. Refused medication because did not like side effects. Knew of risk of seizures but had never had one while driving before and drove a lot.

See no 2


5. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving but never killed anyone before.

See no 2

6. Refused medication and had frequently had seizures while driving - had already had one accident that resulted in pedestrian death.

This is probably where a manslaughter conviction with LWOP is appropriate

7. Was on a placebo, believed it was medicine that worked.
See no 1, unless he knew it possibe that is was a placeboe

There was a case of an Australian Man who was convicted of Manslaughter after killing a family of three after suffering an epileptic fit while driving. The judge had no sympathy. The guy had not delared his illness on his license appliation

I would really appreciate feedback.
- T

[Felix2]

You cannot reasonably apply the DP, but manslaughter or lack of due care could apply in some of the scenario's proposed.

[Jane]

I am not sure legally what the stance is, but i would say that because this is not premeditated then NO the DP should not apply. Actually i dont even agree that manslaughter would be. You are not in control if you have a fit... then again he should not be driving anyway if he is prone to epilepsy.

good topic

[Felix2]

but Jane, you drive and you are a woman?

[dio]

4,5,&6 juice him up and smile as ya wheel his ass out to the van.#3 well forgetfulness is no plea....1st degree non capitol offence variety.1 &2 innocent of all charges.7 I wanna be Bentys law partner for the drug co suit ;D

[Jane]

Felix2 said:

but Jane, you drive and you are a woman?

so............................. bloody what ?.

i also ride motorbikes - which is probably more that what you can achieve..

give me a CBR 900 anyday of the week and i will kick *your rear*.

[josephdphillips]

This is an interesting question. Do you have an actual case in mind? Anyway, the definition of murder and the application of the death penalty requires premeditation and malice, which is not present when someone with a known medical condition is allowed by the state to operate a motor vehicle. Repeated failures to address a medical condition on the part of the patient, resulting in forseeable death, however, changes things. Even then that is probably negligent homicide at worst.

We might explore the George Russell Weller case in California instead:

www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/03/19/news/state/21_57_413_18_05.txt

This is a guy who barrelled through a crowd in his car, killing ten people and injuring 63.

[Felix2]

so............................. bloody what ?.

i also ride motorbikes - which is probably more that what you can achieve..

give me a CBR 900 anyday of the week and i will kick *your rear*. - Jane
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If I gave you a Harley, would you whip it?

[Jules]

I have two friends with epilepsy, one cannot drive under any circumstances, the other hasnt had a fit for 12mths, and therefore is legally allowed to drive.
Both have been made fully aware of their legal responsibilities.

For me, 5 & 6 are as bad as the worst drink driving cases. There is a slight argument that you have some time before the seizures take hold, but its a poor argument.
4 is a marginal case, but manslaughter is about right here, you know that you are a danger, but still make the choice.
1 is easy, innocent.
2, if he legally has a licence, innocent, otherwise manslaughter.
3, Driving ban until epilepsy is cured (this practically means a life sentence). Back this ban up with a suspended manslaughter 10yr sentence.
7. If you legally hold a driving licence, then whoever gave it to you should do time. You however are innocent.