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Post by willyb on Jul 20, 2017 2:12:46 GMT -6
I have a friend who is also pro-DP, but believes that as long as executions exist, it shall deter crime. This includes lethal injection and nitrogen gas asphyxiation. Of course all execution methods kill, but are some more effective at deterrence than others? I have included ''hung by the neck until dead'' since before we abolished the death penalty in the UK, this was carried out for things like serial murderers and child killers.
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Post by oslooskar on Jul 20, 2017 22:54:21 GMT -6
Hanging
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Post by josephdphillips on Jul 21, 2017 7:49:01 GMT -6
I have a friend who is also pro-DP, but believes that as long as executions exist, it shall deter crime. This includes lethal injection and nitrogen gas asphyxiation. Of course all execution methods kill, but are some more effective at deterrence than others? I have included ''hung by the neck until dead'' since before we abolished the death penalty in the UK, this was carried out for things like serial murderers and child killers. I think you're missing the point. The population refraining from acts of murder in most societies is about 99.995 percent. Of the 0.005 percent that remain, we execute, in the United States, maybe one is 250. i doubt that guy cares about how he dies. To punish murder, the ancient Romans would give you a choice between decapitation in your cell or allowing you to fall on your sword. I don't think anyone can improve on that. There is no grand, social purpose in any punishment, for any crime. It's just retribution, the moral justification for which is self-evident.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 22, 2017 9:08:51 GMT -6
All of the above.
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Post by Doc on Jul 25, 2017 8:41:06 GMT -6
If the hanging is done the same way as it is in Iran yes..
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Post by bernard on Jul 27, 2017 21:29:31 GMT -6
I don't think any of them are much of a deterrent, because the creep always thinks he won't get caught.
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 28, 2017 9:49:02 GMT -6
And what do they think if they are in a non DP state or country Bernard? They can murder all/whoever they want, nothing to lose even inside those walls.
Did you know some actually want to be incarcerated over life outside. Or one released who gets out and murders yet again. So, does it really matter what they think.
There is a deterrent.
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Post by bernard on Jul 29, 2017 13:48:39 GMT -6
And what do they think if they are in a non DP state or country Bernard? They think they won't get caught. If they thought otherwise, they wouldn't commit the crime. The same goes for somebody on death row. Nothing to lose if he kills someone else. Unless you favor doubling the juice? And did you know some actually want to die? It reminds me of this thread where you and rocky said that the innocence project busted 12 people off the row who went on to murder. It's nearly two years since that claim, and neither of you ever managed to name one between you, let alone 12. prodp.proboards.com/thread/35781/why-secrecy?page=8#ixzz4oFfsY9CMsaid
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 29, 2017 14:53:40 GMT -6
Exactly it does not matter a DP or not. They murder anyhow. Not having a DP is not deterrent either. Having one sure provides a cure that person will not murder again. I like guarantees for serious issues. How would some one on DR murder? With No access to prisons general population or staff, never heard of an inmate on DR escape to murder again either. One who murdered & gets LWOP has nothing to lose. That sure is not a deterrent. Well, except more time added to his/her life sentence, removed from general population for a time. lol adding more time to a life sentence yeah, makes a whole lot of sense huh?
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Post by bernard on Jul 30, 2017 16:50:03 GMT -6
How would some one on DR murder? With No access to prisons general population or staff, If you think that murderers can be stopped from killing again by removing their access to genpop and staff, remind me why you need the DP again?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 30, 2017 17:30:16 GMT -6
Would be impossible to confine all inmates as DR inmates are. DR row inmates only get one hour a day outside also, by themselves. So, you tell me how that would be possible. Also if one is in prison for murdering others ( then inside general population too) adding on to a life sentence is a joke. That in itself proves the DP is an appropriate & justifiable option .
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 30, 2017 18:35:00 GMT -6
And what do they think if they are in a non DP state or country Bernard? They think they won't get caught. If they thought otherwise, they wouldn't commit the crime. The same goes for somebody on death row. Nothing to lose if he kills someone else. Unless you favor doubling the juice? Repeat: true those on DR have nothing to lose. Repeat" The one on DR has no access to general population inside, or their hour outside. Repeat" It is the lifer who has nothing to lose, he has access to genpop as well as staff. So, what if the killer thinks he/she won't get caught? Obviously they were wrong, some dead wrong. .
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Post by bernard on Jul 30, 2017 18:59:12 GMT -6
Would be impossible to confine all inmates as DR inmates are. We're just talking about murderers. Do you think it is impossible to confine all the murderers away from staff and genpop?
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Post by whitediamonds on Jul 30, 2017 19:35:49 GMT -6
Yes, it would be impossible too. For a natural lifetime? Now that is cruel .
Now, like many on DR they are locked up like that for 20-30 yrs before before being executed. Good reason to make the appeals system no longer than 5 yrs.
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Post by bernard on Jul 31, 2017 17:23:37 GMT -6
Yes, it would be impossible too. For a natural lifetime? Now that is cruel . Now, like many on DR they are locked up like that for 20-30 yrs before before being executed. Good reason to make the appeals system no longer than 5 yrs. Right. If it's impossible to lock all murderers away from genpop for 20-30 years, then it's impossible to put all murderers on death row for that period. So your proposal to give all murderers the DP needs the 5 year appeals system or it simply doesn't work. So the real question is how would you abbreviate the appeals system?
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 1, 2017 7:58:59 GMT -6
So the real question is how would you abbreviate the appeals system? Make it a year and have all appeals go straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Have them work on nothing else until the backlog is clear.
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Post by bernard on Aug 1, 2017 19:31:39 GMT -6
So the real question is how would you abbreviate the appeals system? Make it a year and have all appeals go straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Have them work on nothing else until the backlog is clear. That would work to clear the current system, but would it work if all murderers got the DP, as you and whitemarbles desire? That would put something like 15,000 new condemned men into the system, each one with an appeals lawyer.
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Post by oslooskar on Aug 1, 2017 22:31:26 GMT -6
They think they won't get caught. If they thought otherwise, they wouldn't commit the crime. Correct, but on the other hand we don't know how many were deterred by the possibility of being caught and executed.
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Post by willyb on Aug 1, 2017 23:02:49 GMT -6
They think they won't get caught. If they thought otherwise, they wouldn't commit the crime. Correct, but on the other hand we don't know how many were deterred by the possibility of being caught and executed. UK's severe crime rate (crime that would warrant DP) skyrocketed after we abolished it in the sixties...
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 2, 2017 7:41:47 GMT -6
That would work to clear the current system, but would it work if all murderers got the DP, as you and whitemarbles desire? That would put something like 15,000 new condemned men into the system, each one with an appeals lawyer. That would be fine with me.
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Post by whitediamonds on Aug 3, 2017 8:36:49 GMT -6
Make it a year and have all appeals go straight to the U.S. Supreme Court. Have them work on nothing else until the backlog is clear. That would work to clear the current system, but would it work if all murderers got the DP, as you and whitemarbles desire? That would put something like 15,000 new condemned men into the system, each one with an appeals lawyer. There are 3 degrees of murder. Those facing 1st degree or known also as capital murder , should get the DP. I never stated all degrees of murder should get the DP. Now your into fake news about my personal beliefs. To add: Your also the one that stated my thread in category, have fun get light, with 98% music is strange.
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Post by nykkic on Aug 3, 2017 14:04:49 GMT -6
the thought of cyanide gas scares me
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Post by bernard on Aug 4, 2017 15:40:13 GMT -6
That would work to clear the current system, but would it work if all murderers got the DP, as you and whitemarbles desire? That would put something like 15,000 new condemned men into the system, each one with an appeals lawyer. That would be fine with me. Anyway, you were saying what your suggestion was for clearing the system.
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 6, 2017 17:07:02 GMT -6
you were saying what your suggestion was for clearing the system. There have already been attempts to "clear" the system, and it's been those supposedly in favor of capital punishment who have defeated these attempts. These people are egregiously hypocritical. They don't want to actually execute murderers. They just want to sentence them to death. That is true in every death penalty state, including Texas. Take away the death penalty and hypocrisy would still prevail. Murderers would be sentenced to life "without parole," and the pro-LWOP supporters would trip over themselves looking for ways to release murderers from prison. So I'm not sure we can "clear" the system until we "clear" the population of people who think acts of murder aren't really that bad.
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Post by bernard on Aug 19, 2017 14:57:16 GMT -6
you were saying what your suggestion was for clearing the system. There have already been attempts to "clear" the system, and it's been those supposedly in favor of capital punishment who have defeated these attempts. These people are egregiously hypocritical. They don't want to actually execute murderers. They just want to sentence them to death. That is true in every death penalty state, including Texas. Take away the death penalty and hypocrisy would still prevail. Murderers would be sentenced to life "without parole," and the pro-LWOP supporters would trip over themselves looking for ways to release murderers from prison. So I'm not sure we can "clear" the system until we "clear" the population of people who think acts of murder aren't really that bad. Nice dodge. But back to the question. How would flooding the nine members of the SCOTUS with all the appeals from 15,000 cases or so per year "clear the system"? The backlog would be enormous.
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 20, 2017 9:30:08 GMT -6
How would flooding the nine members of the SCOTUS with all the appeals from 15,000 cases or so per year "clear the system"? The backlog would be enormous. For a while. They would put off all other decisions until the backlog were cleared up, or create an execution court with final authority. Or Congress could streamline the process to begin with, and restrict habeas corpus.I'm fairly certain the number of executions would shrink anyway. The Chinese, with 6 times our population, only execute 10,000 a year or so.
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Post by nykkic on Aug 21, 2017 10:32:26 GMT -6
I remember 10+ years ago Joseph suggested to ''live-cremate'' murderers ... now THAT was a scary thought ! Just imagine all that kicking and screaming ..that would follow you into your dreams if you watched it - what a mess that would be
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Post by josephdphillips on Aug 21, 2017 13:04:56 GMT -6
I remember 10+ years ago Joseph suggested to ''live-cremate'' murderers ... now THAT was a scary thought ! Just imagine all that kicking and screaming ..that would follow you into your dreams if you watched it - what a mess that would be Yeah, I remember that, too. The death penalty is something imposed and carried-out in anger, or at least ought to be, if it's to have any moral justification. I loathe, detest and despise a "pro" that wants to kill murderers with kindness, and even then only to the so-called "worst of the worst." These "pros," to me, are worse than antis.
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Post by Doc on Aug 21, 2017 23:52:26 GMT -6
I remember 10+ years ago Joseph suggested to ''live-cremate'' murderers ... now THAT was a scary thought ! Just imagine all that kicking and screaming ..that would follow you into your dreams if you watched it - what a mess that would be Yeah, I remember that, too. The death penalty is something imposed and carried-out in anger, or at least ought to be, if it's to have any moral justification. I loathe, detest and despise a "pro" that wants to kill murderers with kindness, and even then only to the so-called "worst of the worst." These "pros," to me, are worse than antis. worst punishment is being bored to death by CNN, and your idea of cremation was more than 10 years ago Joe
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Post by nykkic on Aug 23, 2017 13:40:03 GMT -6
I remember 10+ years ago Joseph suggested to ''live-cremate'' murderers ... now THAT was a scary thought ! Just imagine all that kicking and screaming ..that would follow you into your dreams if you watched it - what a mess that would be Yeah, I remember that, too. The death penalty is something imposed and carried-out in anger, or at least ought to be, if it's to have any moral justification. I loathe, detest and despise a "pro" that wants to kill murderers with kindness, and even then only to the so-called "worst of the worst." These "pros," to me, are worse than antis. oh I did not critizise you for that Joseph - I just remember the thought of it really scared me ... I believe live cremation might indeed deter murder
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