|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 10:24:04 GMT -6
I would never agree with doing away with the 8th Amendment. Repeal of the Eighth Amendment would not create cruel and unusual punishments for anything. Repeal would simply remove capital punishment from the jurisdiction of U.S. courts. It would also expose the cowardice and rank hypocrisy of those who claim to support capital punishment, but refuse to streamline the execution process. If you can't get behind repeal of the Eighth, you really don't support capital punishment.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 10:44:26 GMT -6
I would never agree with doing away with the 8th Amendment. Repeal of the Eighth Amendment would not create cruel and unusual punishments for anything. Repeal would simply remove capital punishment from the jurisdiction of U.S. courts. It would also expose the cowardice and rank hypocrisy of those who claim to support capital punishment, but refuse to streamline the execution process. If you can't get behind repeal of the Eighth, you really don't support capital punishment. States already decide if to use the DP or not. The Government gives them that choice already. I personally do support the DP. Also the 8th protects those not found guilty YET in a court of law, to unreasonable high bail. I also believe the 8th states clearly what crimes do not qualify for the DP. It clearly is not saying the DP is cruel & unusual, only the manner of use, as I already stated. Your personal opinion of how they should die, is the cruel & unusual the 8th does not back up. A drunk no matter what, is not premeditated murder, he/she is an idiot who needs rehab, & license suspended for a length of time. And while suspended even if found publicly intoxicated should have the license revoked. Drivng a car is not a right.
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 10:59:32 GMT -6
States already decide if to use the DP or not. The Government gives them that choice already. No, the courts do. The states have nothing to do with it. the 8th protects those not found guilty YET in a court of law, to unreasonable high bail. Murderers are routinely denied bail, and the Eighth Amendment has yet to free anyone accused who could not afford his bail. the 8th states clearly what crimes do not qualify for the DP. Actually, it doesn't. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflictedIt clearly is not saying the DP is cruel & unusual, only the manner of use, as I already stated. Your personal opinion of how the should die, is the cruel & unusual the 8th does not back up. It doesn't say much about anything, which is precisely my point. Repeal the Eighth and leave to the people the business of executing criminals, however the people of those states see fit. Capital punishment is all but dead in this country because only a tiny minority really believe in it. The majority do not.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 11:26:04 GMT -6
Repeal the Eighth and leave to the people the business of executing criminals, however the people of those states see fit. Capital punishment is all but dead in this country because only a tiny minority really believe in it. The majority do not. Leave it to the people? Yet, you admit the DP in this country is all but dead? A tiny minority believe in the DP? Also state courts decide? Such a mixed message that is.. Well, a good example is Chicago, liberal democrats. Crime capital of the US, five more states in ranks behind them. No DP, yet the death toll is raising there slaughters every day. Illegals have the guns, strict gun laws for the legal citizens etc etc. Taking this country to hell, terrorist attacks cross the globe. There is no way in sam hill, would I defend murderers with a straight face & find pride in it. This country had it right,you want to murder us we kill you off this planet. Sorry but the prayers & so tragic is not enough anymore.
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 12:12:54 GMT -6
That is what I stated. Yet, you admit the DP in this country is all but dead? I do. We execute fewer than one murderer in 250. A tiny minority believe in the DP? How else would one explain the desuetude of capital punishment? Also state courts decide? No, without the Eighth Amendment, state courts would not decide the issue, either, unless the states created restrictions in their own constitutions. Such a mixed message that is. Not a mixed message at all. Death was the presumptive penalty for murder for hundreds of years. That changed when the people of the United States softened their objections to murder and became more and more squeamish about punishing it. Increasing the execution rate will never happen as long as lawyers are involved in the debate. If you want a capital punishment that actually works, you have to get rid of the Eighth Amendment. This country had it right, you want to murder us we kill you off this planet. The country refuses to execute 249 out of 250 murderers. You may be angry about murder, but the majority does not appear to be.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 13:05:26 GMT -6
That is what I stated. Yet, you admit the DP in this country is all but dead? I do. We execute fewer than one murderer in 250. A tiny minority believe in the DP? How else would one explain the desuetude of capital punishment? Also state courts decide? No, without the Eighth Amendment, state courts would not decide the issue, either, unless the states created restrictions in their own constitutions. Such a mixed message that is. Not a mixed message at all. Death was the presumptive penalty for murder for hundreds of years. That changed when the people of the United States softened their objections to murder and became more and more squeamish about punishing it. Increasing the execution rate will never happen as long as lawyers are involved in the debate. If you want a capital punishment that actually works, you have to get rid of the Eighth Amendment. This country had it right, you want to murder us we kill you off this planet. The country refuses to execute 249 out of 250 murderers. You may be angry about murder, but the majority does not appear to be. Brilliant', so, the message is murder as many as you want, any method, your choice, as many as you can, our children included & you will be protected from LI, for your natural life. Or maybe lets take that even further, released at some point, or if you murder yet again inside the walls or outside, same result. Now, that's a revolving door for sure. Got it !!! Open hunting season. How did this get so twisted over the years?
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jun 30, 2016 14:18:09 GMT -6
1 in 250 murderers are executed, by Joe's figures. So if we were in the slightest part interested in upholding the constitution, the DP would already be prohibited for being so "unusual".
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 15:04:09 GMT -6
1 in 250 murderers are executed, by Joe's figures. So if we were in the slightest part interested in upholding the constitution, the DP would already be prohibited for being so "unusual". It has come to that, unusual" due to who?
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 15:07:27 GMT -6
It has come to that, unusual" due to who? Due to the concerted efforts of folks in possession of capital punishment, the alleged "pros."
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 15:12:13 GMT -6
It has come to that, unusual" due to who? Due to the concerted efforts of folks in possession of capital punishment, the alleged "pros." Yeah, it is the pro's that at the last minute hold the execution five hours longer over bogus appeals. Now, that is cruel & unusual. To be executed at 6pm & ends up 5 hours late.........
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jun 30, 2016 15:14:35 GMT -6
1 in 250 murderers are executed, by Joe's figures. So if we were in the slightest part interested in upholding the constitution, the DP would already be prohibited for being so "unusual". It has come to that, unusual" due to who? Due to people finding it easy to be tough when they are talking to pollsters, or voting for representatives, or venting on web forums like you. But when they are in the jury with a man's life in their hands, when it's real, they find they lose their nerve. Most pros have the kind of backbone that's only good for posturing. One that won't sustain the weight of condemning a man to death.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 15:37:00 GMT -6
It has come to that, unusual" due to who? Due to people finding it easy to be tough when they are talking to pollsters, or voting for representatives, or venting on web forums like you. But when they are in the jury with a man's life in their hands, when it's real, they find they lose their nerve. Most pros have the kind of backbone that's only good for posturing. One that won't sustain the weight of condemning a man to death. Not me, even when real, DP if on the table I have no issue with. Maybe some real men should grow a set, & women should get real. I do not just do posturing. if you have issue with the DP, they will not let you serve on the jury. No one is forced to serve on jury duty if you feel squimish. It takes 30 or more years, even when given the DP, who's fault is that?
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 16:05:58 GMT -6
It takes 30 or more years, even when given the DP, who's fault is that? That's entirely the fault of "pros," who refuse to streamline the process.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 16:22:24 GMT -6
It takes 30 or more years, even when given the DP, who's fault is that? That's entirely the fault of "pros," who refuse to streamline the process. Then let the show begin, if it is all on the pro's. And anti's have no backbone either. Enjoy your new world order of chaos
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jun 30, 2016 16:59:45 GMT -6
Then let the show begin, if it is all on the pro's. And anti's have no backbone either. Enjoy your new world order of chaos It's not much of a show. The number executed drops every year, and the pros aren't doing anything about it. I wouldn't disparage the "antis," since it's obvious to me the majority of voters are opposed to the death penalty in all but the rarest of circumstances.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jun 30, 2016 17:08:17 GMT -6
Due to people finding it easy to be tough when they are talking to pollsters, or voting for representatives, or venting on web forums like you. But when they are in the jury with a man's life in their hands, when it's real, they find they lose their nerve. Most pros have the kind of backbone that's only good for posturing. One that won't sustain the weight of condemning a man to death. Not me, even when real, DP if on the table I have no issue with. Maybe some real men should grow a set, & women should get real. I do not just do posturing. Saying "I do not just do posturing" is what people say when they are posturing. The bottom line is, antis are removed from juries. Only pros are left. So it is pros who are letting murderers get away with lesser sentences.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 17:34:23 GMT -6
Not me, even when real, DP if on the table I have no issue with. Maybe some real men should grow a set, & women should get real. I do not just do posturing. Saying "I do not just do posturing" is what people say when they are posturing. The bottom line is, antis are removed from juries. Only pros are left. So it is pros who are letting murderers get away with lesser sentences. So, glad you can read my mind, & decided I am posturing. lol You should take advantage of that gift, no need for courts or jury, we have you. You found me guilty & saying, I am a liar. No facts, your just running off at the mouth posturing. On a forum.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jun 30, 2016 18:34:42 GMT -6
Saying "I do not just do posturing" is what people say when they are posturing. The bottom line is, antis are removed from juries. Only pros are left. So it is pros who are letting murderers get away with lesser sentences. So, glad you can read my mind, & decided I am posturing. On the contrary, I have no idea if you're posturing or not. How could I know one way or the other? However, what the statistics tell us is that most people who say they're pro don't act pro when it comes to getting their hands dirty.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jun 30, 2016 19:26:48 GMT -6
So, glad you can read my mind, & decided I am posturing. On the contrary, I have no idea if you're posturing or not. How could I know one way or the other? However, what the statistics tell us is that most people who say they're pro don't act pro when it comes to getting their hands dirty. I'm not most people, I'm me.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jun 30, 2016 22:39:55 GMT -6
On the contrary, I have no idea if you're posturing or not. How could I know one way or the other? However, what the statistics tell us is that most people who say they're pro don't act pro when it comes to getting their hands dirty. I'm not most people, I'm me. So you say. But that's what the other pros would say too. How am I to tell which of you are the real deal when we know that most of you aren't?
|
|
|
Post by Donnie on Jul 1, 2016 6:22:21 GMT -6
1 in 250 murderers are executed, by Joe's figures. So if we were in the slightest part interested in upholding the constitution, the DP would already be prohibited for being so "unusual". The death penalty is unusual only insomuch as it is unusually pleasant. Death is the usual end for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jul 1, 2016 8:11:57 GMT -6
I'm not most people, I'm me. So you say. But that's what the other pros would say too. How am I to tell which of you are the real deal when we know that most of you aren't? Who are we to know the real anti's? Extremist or those anti's who feel the DP is appropriate for some murders/murderers ? As for the extremist, what is their agenda, methods, & expected outcome? Violence, murderers have only gotten extreme across the globe. So, is the no DP actually working? Why are we all living with threats, & such high security now? To add, Please do not tell me it is pro's hands who are dirty !!! Sick demented twist.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jul 1, 2016 9:31:11 GMT -6
I'm a white, female, christian , republican, pro-gun, pro-life, Pro DP for murderers not babies.
How else can I offend you today? Oh yes, I'm also voting for Trump.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jul 1, 2016 15:17:17 GMT -6
1 in 250 murderers are executed, by Joe's figures. So if we were in the slightest part interested in upholding the constitution, the DP would already be prohibited for being so "unusual". The death penalty is unusual only insomuch as it is unusually pleasant. Death is the usual end for everyone. By the same reasoning murder is no big deal since we already have an appointment with death and the murderer just reschedules it. And the death penalty isn't a penalty at all. It's more like doing the scumbag a favor. I don't think that that's what you intended to say. So we should work together to see if we can make your claim more precise.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jul 1, 2016 15:18:50 GMT -6
To add, Please do not tell me it is pro's hands who are dirty !!! Sick demented twist. If antis are removed from juries, then it is pros that are letting these scumbags off light. That's all I was saying.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jul 1, 2016 15:21:04 GMT -6
I'm a white, female, christian , republican, pro-gun, pro-life, Pro DP for murderers not babies. How else can I offend you today? Oh yes, I'm also voting for Trump. If you are speaking to me, I don't take offense at people's political positions, except maybe at the far extremes, let alone a person's race, gender or religion. It sounds like you are feeling outraged at the intolerance shown by many who claim to be acting in the name of tolerance. If so, then I completely agree with your complaint.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jul 2, 2016 9:12:21 GMT -6
I would never agree with doing away with the 8th Amendment. Repeal of the Eighth Amendment would not create cruel and unusual punishments for anything. Repeal would simply remove capital punishment from the jurisdiction of U.S. courts. It would also expose the cowardice and rank hypocrisy of those who claim to support capital punishment, but refuse to streamline the execution process. If you can't get behind repeal of the Eighth, you really don't support capital punishment. I like this idea, add a 28th Amendment. Time for, term limits in congress. Since were speaking about amendments.
|
|
|
Post by whitediamonds on Jul 2, 2016 13:57:15 GMT -6
I'm a white, female, christian , republican, pro-gun, pro-life, Pro DP for murderers not babies. How else can I offend you today? Oh yes, I'm also voting for Trump. If you are speaking to me, I don't take offense at people's political positions, except maybe at the far extremes, let alone a person's race, gender or religion. It sounds like you are feeling outraged at the intolerance shown by many who claim to be acting in the name of tolerance. If so, then I completely agree with your complaint. Exactly. Although it is a statement, only intended for those ( shown by many who) claim to be acting in the name of tolerance. So, by your post your not one of them". That's a good thing.
|
|
|
Post by josephdphillips on Jul 4, 2016 7:40:06 GMT -6
If antis are removed from juries, then it is pros that are letting these scumbags off light. That's all I was saying. Actually, if a juror believes death is the appropriate punishment for murder in all circumstances, as true pros do, he can't get on a capital jury, either. Another reason to repeal the Eighth Amendment.
|
|
|
Post by bernard on Jul 4, 2016 10:42:07 GMT -6
If antis are removed from juries, then it is pros that are letting these scumbags off light. That's all I was saying. Actually, if a juror believes death is the appropriate punishment for murder in all circumstances, as true pros do, he can't get on a capital jury, either. Then the people who remain on the jury are so-called wowie pros. My point stands.
|
|