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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 16:53:24 GMT -6
Not your opinion on the DP, why would you want to know, or is that secret?
Question are you a tax payer living in the US?
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 17:15:54 GMT -6
Let's be clear, I'll talk from experience, not irrational opinion. A murderer intentionally kills innocent people, and in many cases tortures, rapes and violently ends the life of our citizens of this great nation. He is found guilty and sentenced, rightfully to death. The people carrying out the execution are enforcing the law, a legal process to hold accountable those who choose to murder and torture for pleasure. It's the law, and the vast majority of Americans agree that under the worst circumstances the death penalty is the right course of action. We kill all the time in a just society, we have no choice- war, school shooter, terrorist, etc. Using your logic we should disclose the names of Seal Team 6 for killing Osama. The officials carrying out the execution are the victims families protectors, and societies sword of Justice. They will always be protected, whether you like it or not. Again, why do you want their names? They followed the law, the fact you state you want to go after them is a threat, and maybe we need to know your name.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 17:28:20 GMT -6
OMG, I can't believe you equated the holocaust with the DP. Millions of men women and children were rounded up because of their religion and systematically starved and executed. How disgusting and frankly bizarre that you would even distantly let alone directly connect the legal execution of a child serial rapist/killer shows your lack of rational thought, your not as smart as you think you are. BTW, the Nazis who carried out the holocaust, we executed them too. Thank God.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 17:35:13 GMT -6
If they didn't choose to participate in the executions, they wouldn't be in trouble. Fuglyville, , I think maybe you should be watched as a possible terrorist sympathizer...for real !!![/quote] Why would fuglyville say if they didn't choose to participate in executions, they wouldn't be in trouble? From who fuglyville would they be in trouble?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 17:37:07 GMT -6
Keeping the names of the people who perform an execution of the disgusting murderer ensures that ADP people won't t try to turn the execution into a circus. Nonsense. There were no DP abolitionists in Elizabethan England, yet this guy still wore a mask: What was he afraid of? Being harassed on Twitter?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 17:38:36 GMT -6
Your the one with the secrecy, your not telling the real reason why you want the names. It has nothing to do with a free society, it's just an attempt to go after people carrying out Justice. To intimidate, harass, and add more pain to the victims families all in the name of your distorted view. So, tell your truth, and end your secrecy. Could you explain further? I don't see how releasing the names of the strap-down team would lead to the victim's family's being harassed. The victim's family's names are already public knowledge.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 17:40:46 GMT -6
If they didn't choose to participate in the executions, they wouldn't be in trouble. Fuglyville, , I think maybe you should be watched as a possible terrorist sympathizer...for real !!! Why would fuglyville say if they didn't choose to participate in executions, they wouldn't be in trouble? From who fuglyville would they be in trouble? [/quote] Exactly, Fugltvillebplease define "trouble". Are you threatening law enforcement?
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 17:42:55 GMT -6
Your the one with the secrecy, your not telling the real reason why you want the names. It has nothing to do with a free society, it's just an attempt to go after people carrying out Justice. To intimidate, harass, and add more pain to the victims families all in the name of your distorted view. So, tell your truth, and end your secrecy. Could you explain further? I don't see how releasing the names of the strap-down team would lead to the victim's family's being harassed. The victim's family's names are already public knowledge.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 17:45:17 GMT -6
Lets make all of it an event. When they have a televised court trial, why is it kept from the public & blocked when they show the crime scene with the bodies still in death found position at the scene? Why is that kept secret? Tax payers are paying for this too... If there is a good argument for televising trials I am willing to discuss it. And there is a good argument for televising executions: It would improve the deterrent effect of the DP, and so prevent murders. Why are you against preventing murders?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 17:49:37 GMT -6
[quote source="/post/626402/thread" timestamp="1443990450" author=" If it were a bullet to the head in the public square, televised, that would be a better deterrent AND less likely to result in a drawn out painful death. But pros are too squeamish for that. Yes, a bullet to the head would make more sense. It is the anti's & defense attny's that took us all around the block & " tortured" the inmate not the pros' to begin with, now we came full circle. Look at the recent executions, the DP stay'd how many times due to nonsense & how many yr's before carried out? Yes, stop the cruel & unusual toward the convict & all the families involved thru the anti movement is doing when they are guilty as charged. You seem to be confusing (a) the appellate system with (b) antis. But those are not the same. In fact the appellate system is so convoluted in order to protect the DP, so that pros can say that they never executed an innocent.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 17:53:24 GMT -6
Lets make all of it an event. When they have a televised court trial, why is it kept from the public & blocked when they show the crime scene with the bodies still in death found position at the scene? Why is that kept secret? Tax payers are paying for this too... If there is a good argument for televising trials I am willing to discuss it. And there is a good argument for televising executions: It would improve the deterrent effect of the DP, and so prevent murders. Why are you against preventing murders? It is tongue in cheek sarcasm toward you. Of your's and fuglyville's nonsense. Why do you want the names for what purpose would it serve, for threats maybe, intimidation, to sway a verdict? For carrying out justice?
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 17:53:36 GMT -6
Bernard, absolutely I will explain. First read my reply again, the harassment of those involved, but further pain for the families. Never said anything about the victims families names. Getting the names of the strap down team, -your words- would only be used to harass and intimidate law enforcement carrying out Justice. The constant disruption of the sytem is an emotional roller coaster for the victims families, getting the names is just another attempt to disrupt the process of Justice by harassing those involved. Again, why do you need the names? Answer - your sides- to hold them accountable for killing, please define how you want to hold them accountable? News flash- don't murder and rape, don't torture innocent people and children of this great nation, because if you do you will be held accountable with the death penalty- ITS JUSTICE. Period.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 18:00:47 GMT -6
Using your logic we should disclose the names of Seal Team 6 for killing Osama. Er... what? You think the government has a compelling national security interest in keeping the names of the gurney goons anonymous? Explain this to me: The names of the victim's family: A matter of public record. The names of the cops who arrested the creep: A matter of public record. The name of the prosecutor who argued that the creep was guilty and deserved death: A matter of public record. The names of the jurors who agreed: A matter of public record. The name of the judge who passed the sentence of death: A matter of public record. The name of the officials in the appellate courts who denied the creep's appeals: A matter of public record. The name of the governor who refused a last minute pardon: A matter of public record. The names of the people who administered the poison: TOP SECRET!!! Everyone else's service is accountable on the public record, even at the risk of harassment and threats from the creep's associates and other extremists. So what's so special about the snowflakes down at the pen?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 18:07:30 GMT -6
If there is a good argument for televising trials I am willing to discuss it. And there is a good argument for televising executions: It would improve the deterrent effect of the DP, and so prevent murders. Why are you against preventing murders? It is tongue in cheek sarcasm toward you. Of your's and fuglyville's nonsense. Why do you want the names for what purpose would it serve, for threats maybe, intimidation, to sway a verdict? For carrying out justice? Many people think that executioners' names should be a matter of public record because the prisoner has an interest in requesting the removal of executioners who have f'cked up their duties in the past. That seems like a reasonable argument. Speaking for myself, I don't particularly want to know their names. I am merely asking why they alone in the justice system should not have their names on the record, when cops, jurors, prosecutors and judges all have to publicly acknowledge their role in sending a man to his death. Are they ashamed?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 18:19:29 GMT -6
The constant disruption of the sytem is an emotional roller coaster for the victims families, I am not sure what disruption you have in mind. If you mean the appeals and so on those may well be emotionally painful for the families, but they are not a disruption of the process. They ARE the process.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 18:32:41 GMT -6
Again, why do you need the names? Answer - your sides- to hold them accountable for killing, please define how you want to hold them accountable? I can see a compelling argument from accountability. Namely, that the prisoner and his legal representation, not to mention the public at large, have an interest in knowing which poisoners have done a speedy, efficient and effective job, and which incompetent fools have left the prisoner gasping and choking in violation of his constitutional rights. The latter should be investigated and, if necessary, relieved of their duties and perhaps even fired. But when the poisoners' identities are hidden, nobody knows whether there is any kind of quality control happening at all. Incompetence can flourish on the public dime. Even more than usual. In contrast, my best guess is that fuglyville wants to hold them accountable by saying mean things about them on Twitter. However, I cannot answer for him.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 18:32:56 GMT -6
It is tongue in cheek sarcasm toward you. Of your's and fuglyville's nonsense. Why do you want the names for what purpose would it serve, for threats maybe, intimidation, to sway a verdict? For carrying out justice? Many people think that executioners' names should be a matter of public record because the prisoner has an interest in requesting the removal of executioners who have f'cked up their duties in the past. That seems like a reasonable argument. Speaking for myself, I don't particularly want to know their names. I am merely asking why they alone in the justice system should not have their names on the record, when cops, jurors, prosecutors and judges all have to publicly acknowledge their role in sending a man to his death. Are they ashamed? An inmate does not need to know the names, the defense attorneys can do that. It is not shame Bernard, it is due to people like fuglyville. Read the post fuglyville made. I believe that is a clear reason.
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 18:33:23 GMT -6
No not ashamed, just don't want to be harassed. Hers the bottom line, you think if someone rapes and murders a child, they should not be put to death because it's societies fault. No ones buying that. And btw we could care less about English executioners, we kicked them out a long time ago. Again answer the question, WHY DO YOU WANT SPECIFIC NAMES? You worried the"straps won't be tight enough"? Too bad if the defendant does not like the person putting him to sleep first, he lost his rights when he choose to murder rape and torture. I told you why the name is not released, to prevent illegal intimidation and harassment. So be honest, it has nothing to do with the competence of the prison staff, "none sense". Too bad, no names, you choose to murder and torture- you receive the DP? ? That's Justice!
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 18:39:16 GMT -6
Again, why do you need the names? Answer - your sides- to hold them accountable for killing, please define how you want to hold them accountable? I can see a compelling argument from accountability. Namely, that the prisoner and his legal representation, not to mention the public at large, have an interest in knowing which poisoners have done a speedy, efficient and effective job, and which incompetent fools have left the prisoner gasping and choking in violation of his constitutional rights. The latter should be investigated and, if necessary, relieved of their duties and perhaps even fired. But when the poisoners' identities are hidden, nobody knows whether there is any kind of quality control happening at all. Incompetence can flourish on the public dime. Even more than usual. In contrast, my best guess is that fuglyville wants to hold them accountable by saying mean things about them on Twitter. However, I cannot answer for him. I think your naive about fuglyville. Fug on twitter to incite, encourage or urge people in a cause to do harmful, violent actions... reason fuglyville wants names. Maybe you Bernard do not care about names personally, but think think what your backing....
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Post by rocky1 on Oct 6, 2015 18:54:29 GMT -6
Sorry Bernard, but I could care less about the comfort of the serial killer during his execution. Prieto enjoyed making teenage girls watch their boyfriend executed in front of them, tortured the girl then brutally raped her. He then let her know she was going to die then killed her. Sorry, but if after all possible precautions the serial killer takes a deep breath I could care less. They forfeited their right after they choose to murder and rape. You can shed your tears all you want, I sleep well at night, Justice was served.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 18:59:38 GMT -6
OMG, I can't believe you equated the holocaust with the DP. Millions of men women and children were rounded up because of their religion and systematically starved and executed. How disgusting and frankly bizarre that you would even distantly let alone directly connect the legal execution of a child serial rapist/killer shows your lack of rational thought, your not as smart as you think you are. BTW, the Nazis who carried out the holocaust, we executed them too. Thank God. Appears fuglyville deleted the post that you replied to, I cannot find it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 19:00:28 GMT -6
Wrong dead wrong the public is sick of Precious getting the attention, recently it is showing & being talked about in the news on this recent shooter. Damn right we care. Forget their name & we do care they want that attention, which will not get as in the past. You saying no one cares is BS, F' their name Killers) it is about the victims. That is a current topic, & serious so I am not wondering off badly by bringing it up. I see you not everyone else is the one who just stated you do not care...figures. The execution is not about the victim - it never has been. I just love it when lying, manipulating, scumpals just shoot themselves in the foot. Fugly you came here and declared you were an MVS. Your dearly beloved that was brutally raped and murdered and when I and others here dared to say you were a liar. You actually tried to have us banned. You still didn't answer anything about your dearly beloved who I will say again was NOT the truth. Now, you say that it isn't about the victims and never has been. See it wasn't about your dearly beloved because there never was any dearly beloved. It was always about your precious murderers. YOU LYING SCUMPAL. Let me tell you as I have told others just like you. It is about the victim. If it wasn't for the victim, you wouldn't have these people in captivity that you can write to and coddle. If it wasn't for the victim you wouldn't have this opportunity to prove what a caring, understanding and compassionate person you want to appear to be to others. If it wasn't for the victim you would have to get a life. Something that isn't possible for wasted sacks of human flesh such as yourself.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 19:03:38 GMT -6
Anti abortion would hate to have their kid who is a a doctor, perform abortions too. Secrecy protects lives from anti's who threaten lives for doing so in both area's, abortion or DP Even victims themselves. If they didn't choose to participate in the executions, they wouldn't be in trouble. When you kill someone, the least you can do is be responsible for your actions - and if that gets you in trouble, that's tough luck. Quoting this before this post disappears of fugs
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 19:09:16 GMT -6
Not your opinion on the DP, why would you want to know, or is that secret? Question are you a tax payer living in the US? Fuglyville would not reply to this, I did notice a post by fug disappeared then they logged off.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 19:13:18 GMT -6
Many people think that executioners' names should be a matter of public record because the prisoner has an interest in requesting the removal of executioners who have f'cked up their duties in the past. That seems like a reasonable argument. Speaking for myself, I don't particularly want to know their names. I am merely asking why they alone in the justice system should not have their names on the record, when cops, jurors, prosecutors and judges all have to publicly acknowledge their role in sending a man to his death. Are they ashamed? An inmate does not need to know the names, the defense attorneys can do that. It is not shame Bernard, it is due to people like fuglyville. Read the post fuglyville made. I believe that is a clear reason. The fear of fuglyville doesn't explain why executioners have sought anonymity since ancient times--times when EVERYONE supported the DP--even wearing hoods to disguise themselves. The fear of fuglyville doesn't explain why, in some military firing squads, no-one knew who had the live ammo, so that even the executioner himself wouldn't know who did it. The point of these measures isn't to protect the process from antis. It is to protect the executioner from public shame and private guilt.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 19:22:01 GMT -6
No not ashamed, just don't want to be harassed. Hers the bottom line, you think if someone rapes and murders a child, they should not be put to death because it's societies fault. No ones buying that. And btw we could care less about English executioners, we kicked them out a long time ago. Again answer the question, WHY DO YOU WANT SPECIFIC NAMES? I don't. I am not personally interested in removing their anonymity. I am only interested in what the anonymity proves. To me it proves that, despite all the hollering about justice, the people who perform the execution are hiding their actions out of shame. No he didn't. He continues to have legal and constitutional rights until the day he dies. But jurors, judges and prosecutors run that same risk. Yet their role in sending a man to his death are matters of public record. What's the difference? For me? No. I personally couldn't care less whether the murderer slowly chokes to death in agony. However, this is a nation of laws, not a nation of Bernard's feelings. And there is a legal argument, stemming from consideration of the prisoner's constitutional rights, to the effect that the executioner's names and standard of performance should be a matter of public record.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 19:25:22 GMT -6
Fug on twitter to incite, encourage or urge people in a cause to do harmful, violent actions... reason fuglyville wants names. Maybe you Bernard do not care about names personally, but think think what your backing.... It's possible, but what is the evidence for it? There are lots of people who play a role in sending a man to his death, from cops to jurors to prosecutors to judges. Their names are all on the record. Are they all living in terror of fuglyville?
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 19:26:56 GMT -6
Sorry Bernard, but I could care less about the comfort of the serial killer during his execution. The prisoner has constitutional rights whether you care about them or not.
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Post by whitediamonds on Oct 6, 2015 19:35:43 GMT -6
An inmate does not need to know the names, the defense attorneys can do that. It is not shame Bernard, it is due to people like fuglyville. Read the post fuglyville made. I believe that is a clear reason. People like fuglyville don't explain why executioners have sought anonymity since ancient times--times when EVERYONE supported the DP--even wearing hoods to disguise themselves. People like fuglyville don't explain why, in some military firing squads, no-one knew who had the live ammo, so that even the executioner himself wouldn't know who did it. The point of these measures isn't to protect the process from antis. It is to protect the executioner from public shame and private guilt. Why should the executioner face public shame? Reason I know as far as the squads , no one knowing who had the live ammo? No one enjoys executions. Same with war. Only reason the hood worked for the good back then,, so criminals watching could not make them or family a target. For executing maybe a friend of the ( (the executed) or by a family member of the executed. People do that past & present. Only today the want the name public for same reasons.
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Post by bernard on Oct 6, 2015 19:57:11 GMT -6
People like fuglyville don't explain why executioners have sought anonymity since ancient times--times when EVERYONE supported the DP--even wearing hoods to disguise themselves. People like fuglyville don't explain why, in some military firing squads, no-one knew who had the live ammo, so that even the executioner himself wouldn't know who did it. The point of these measures isn't to protect the process from antis. It is to protect the executioner from public shame and private guilt. Why should the executioner face public shame? "In Western Europe and its colonies, executioners have often been shunned by their neighbours. This attitude can be observed in numerous novels and films, for instance in Alexandre Dumas, père's The Three Musketeers or in the film La veuve de Saint-Pierre (The Widow of Saint-Peter) in which executioners, who are minor characters, were ostracized by villagers. ... In Japan, executioners have been held in contempt as part of the Burakumin class (today executions in Japan are not carried out by professional executioners, but by prison guards regularly moved). In "Memories of Silk and Straw", by Junichi Saga, one of the families surveyed in the Japanese village of Tsuchiura is that of an executioner family ("The Last Executioner", P. 54). This family does suffer social isolation, even though the family is somewhat well-off financially. In the Ottoman Empire, only gypsies could be executioners. Executioners were seen as "damned" people and even their graveyards were separate from public graveyards. There were no inscriptions on executioner tombstones, usually uncarved and unpolished simple rough stones were used. One of the oldest and largest "executioner graveyards" is in the Eyüp district in Istanbul. After the republican revolution in Turkey, executions continued to be performed by gypsy executioners. This situation continued until the abolition of capital punishment in Turkey. The lack of social shunning for executioners in places like North America may be attributed to the infrequency of executions in modern times and the ease in which prison or judicial officials are able to conceal their daily job duties. This provides anonymity that was not possible when executions were carried out in view of the general public." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executioner
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